Why religious persuaders scare me

[crocusj]

Feel free to challenge any statement I ever make, I'd actually be disappointed if you didn't. But I will not change my stance on this. When one of you think of someone trying to convert you, you probably envision a civil old person trying to make the case for their religion's merit. But when i think of it i remember seeing everyday kind of people turn their good will religious beliefs into angry hateful condemnations of "non believers".

Here they just rip you up for arse paper...

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Here they just rip you up for arse paper...

Not everyone, just special people...

 

[Nakosis]

Feel free to challenge any statement I ever make, I'd actually be disappointed if you didn't. But I will not change my stance on this. When one of you think of someone trying to convert you, you probably envision a civil old person trying to make the case for their religion's merit. But when i think of it i remember seeing everyday kind of people turn their good will religious beliefs into angry hateful condemnations of "non believers".

Here on a forum, who cares if some religious folks go off on a rant.

I suspect maybe you're talking about dealing with people face to face...

I suppose I don't confront people face to face about their beliefs unless I know them well. My beliefs usually aren't their business and if they feel the need to tell me about their beliefs it doesn't bother me.

 

[Valjean]

Not all with strong opinions are proselytizers, Bear. We argue because we're in a discussion/debate forum where everyone comes for just that purpose.

I understand and sympathize with your psychological need for a magical world. It's intensely pleasurable to be special and important in Gods eye, and to have signs and portents all about you, but if you don't want people to rock your boat, why did you Join something called Religious Forums ("Discuss, compare and debate...")?

 

[Quintessence]

Feel free to challenge any statement I ever make, I'd actually be disappointed if you didn't. But I will not change my stance on this. When one of you think of someone trying to convert you, you probably envision a civil old person trying to make the case for their religion's merit. But when i think of it i remember seeing everyday kind of people turn their good will religious beliefs into angry hateful condemnations of "non believers".

I'm not asking you to change your stance on it; I'm pointing out that these people are still part of the very spice of life you seem to treasure. If we're at all honest with ourselves, we all angrily and hatefully condemn something. We rationalize our condemnation by telling ourselves we have the right of things, but that's the same thing the people on the "other" sides are doing too. I cannot deprive them of the right to exist without also depriving myself of my own right to exist. If that makes any sense.

 

[BlackBear94]

I'm not asking you to change your stance on it; I'm pointing out that these people are still part of the very spice of life you seem to treasure. If we're at all honest with ourselves, we all angrily and hatefully condemn something. We rationalize our condemnation by telling ourselves we have the right of things, but that's the same thing the people on the "other" sides are doing too. I cannot deprive them of the right to exist without also depriving myself of my own right to exist. If that makes any sense.

I see your point. I'm just so tired of talking to people face to face about religion. 99.9999% of the time they spend more time thinking of ways to prove your beliefs wrong than actually listening to the words you say.

 

[shonghu]

I see your point. I'm just so tired of talking to people face to face about religion. 99.9999% of the time they spend more time thinking of ways to prove your beliefs wrong than actually listening to the words you say.

That means you are tired and fearful of imams, priests, lay ministers, Jehovah`s witness, born-again Christians, Latter Day Saints and monks to come to your office or home who try to persuade you join God and his religion?

 

[obi one]

Well let me ask you something. Do you think crime and hate would decrease dramatically if everyone knew god existed?

That might be the wrong question. Let us assume that you believe in God and Satan, since you are into the sweet and sour concept. Satan surely knows Gods exist, but it doesn't seem to have curbed his appetite for collecting more "sons of hell".

The question is whether people knew that the justice of God will prevail. Such as the message of "as you do to others, shall be done to you". The case is that justice is usually a long time in coming, which dulls the mind, and people forgets that there are consequences to actions taken. Plus the "Christian" gospel of Grace, by the self professed prophet and apostle, futher dulls their minds. Those that God loves, are disciplined quickly, but that is not the general case.

 

[Sunstone]

Religious persuaders scared the daylights out of me, too. They show up at my door once a year demanding candy. And they are dressed as ghosts, goblins, wearwolves, vampires, and other scary things. Or, maybe that's kids at Holloween. At my age, you tend to get confused about these things.

 

[Quintessence]

I see your point. I'm just so tired of talking to people face to face about religion. 99.9999% of the time they spend more time thinking of ways to prove your beliefs wrong than actually listening to the words you say.

Hah, you need to find the right folks to talk to! I know what you mean, though. I've been involved in enough organizations that discuss taboo topics (religion included) that I've seen a number of examples of great exchanges between people with divergent belief systems. Good venues are out there, you just have to find them. Or organize one yourself.

 

[CarlinKnew]

In both scenarios people would find life pointless, either because there is nothing after it to judge them and reward them...

Really, without the promise of a carrot and the threat of a stick you'd feel your life is pointless? I feel sorry for you man.

 

[Valjean]

I see your point. I'm just so tired of talking to people face to face about religion. 99.9999% of the time they spend more time thinking of ways to prove your beliefs wrong than actually listening to the words you say.

But what if you are wrong? Wouldn't you want to know it?
These people are doing you a favor by trying to poke holes in your propositions, BlackBear. That's what intellectuals do, they help each other in the quest for truth by critiquing each others opinions.

When an opinion is expressed in a serious discussion it's considered quite insulting not to attack it.

 

[Man of Faith]

The reason life is so vibrant is because there is an equal and opposite (or simply different) concept for every existing thing or idea. Salty to sweet, cold to warm, pleasure to pain, pious to disenchanted.

Then why get rid of religious persuaders?

 

[e.r.m.]

I understand that all of you nice people out there who truly believe that your religious views are right have a deep desire to draw others towards your side of the religious spectrum, but i implore you, please don't try to convert others.

The reason life is so vibrant is because there is an equal and opposite (or simply different) concept for every existing thing or idea. Salty to sweet, cold to warm, pleasure to pain, pious to disenchanted.

If we all knew the answer to "does god exist?", regardless of whether he does or not the world would be a very dark place just for knowing.

In both scenarios people would find life pointless, either because there is nothing after it to judge them and reward them or because the afterlife is a sure thing and then life becomes just a short summer job of existing. (I'm fairly certain that's why the dark ages were so dark)

Reply if you have something to add or just outright disagree

The issue is with Jesus. You'd have to take it up with Him as the command comes from Him.
Matthew 28:19 [a]Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you [f]always, even to the end of the age.”

 

[BlackBear94]

But what if you are wrong? Wouldn't you want to know it?
These people are doing you a favor by trying to poke holes in your propositions, BlackBear. That's what intellectuals do, they help each other in the quest for truth by critiquing each others opinions.

When an opinion is expressed in a serious discussion it's considered quite insulting not to attack it.

Life is different in the real world. If i tell you what i believe on this forum it's civilized. Because you have to wait until I'm finished typing to see what i'm saying. But out there ------->
people get defensive and interupt saying" no, that's not true".
What the ****? It's a religious belief. There's no true or false about it. And by the way, as i have mentioned in a previous thread, the people i converse with are far from intellectuals

 

[BlackBear94]

Then why get rid of religious persuaders?

Because one group is getting more results than the others.

 

[Tathagata]

@ OP

I agree with what youre saying and that diversity of views is necessary, but I don't think any religion will ever convince the entire population. They've had millenia to do so and still hasn't happened.

However, I don't think we should stifle debate out of fear that one side will win and every belief becomes homogenous. We need to encourage debate, and when we have people engaging in religious persuasion, this sparks debate. This is good.








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[Nakosis]

Life is different in the real world. If i tell you what i believe on this forum it's civilized. Because you have to wait until I'm finished typing to see what i'm saying. But out there ------->
people get defensive and interupt saying" no, that's not true".
What the ****? It's a religious belief. There's no true or false about it. And by the way, as i have mentioned in a previous thread, the people i converse with are far from intellectuals

That be why I stick to forums and a few associates that I know is comfortable discussing religious idealism.

Still it is a matter of one's ability to confront adverse religious folks. Sometimes it is not worth the trouble/effort to confront them. So don't. Nod you head politely and walk away.

Still I think it is ok that they are out their to practice on. In case one wanted to work on their ability to deal with an adverse discussion.

Worse case when confronted tell them how you honestly feel. It's not your job to convince them of your views, unless of course you decide to take that job on.

Don't fear the persuader. Stand up to them. make them feel uncomfortable, if you can. You don't have to but we'd all probably benefit if more did.

 

[Taka]

I understand that all of you nice people out there who truly believe that your religious views are right have a deep desire to draw others towards your side of the religious spectrum, but i implore you, please don't try to convert others.

The reason life is so vibrant is because there is an equal and opposite (or simply different) concept for every existing thing or idea. Salty to sweet, cold to warm, pleasure to pain, pious to disenchanted.

If we all knew the answer to "does god exist?", regardless of whether he does or not the world would be a very dark place just for knowing.

In both scenarios people would find life pointless, either because there is nothing after it to judge them and reward them or because the afterlife is a sure thing and then life becomes just a short summer job of existing. (I'm fairly certain that's why the dark ages were so dark)

Reply if you have something to add or just outright disagree

So are you saying that certain truths should be avoided or kept hidden for the sake of making life more "interesting"? That ignorance is bliss in other words?

Oh no i do. Just not for any of the traditional reasons. More of a "process of elimination" kind of thing

God of the gaps?

So basically if God were to show himself to the everyone the purpose of life would be destroyed. And by "dark ages being so dark" i meant no economical, political, or technological growth in this life because everyone was preparing for the next life.

I think the purpose of life is a subjective question for each person. How would the purpose of life be destroyed if a god showed himself? What are you saying the purpose is?

 

[sojourner]

The issue is with Jesus. You'd have to take it up with Him as the command comes from Him.
Matthew 28:19 [a]Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you [f]always, even to the end of the age.”

That passage has been so twisted and abused. It's not an injunction to proselytize and "evangelize" as we now think of "evangelization." It was a call to the disciples to open their hearts to people who were different from them. Throughout Matthew, Jesus is dispelling the notion of "us vs. them." Jesus says that there is no real "us vs. them." The Greek in that passage uses the words "laos" (us) and "ethne" (them) -- go and make us out of them. It has nothing to do with conversion. It has everything to do with breaking down cultural barriers.