Why Should Bestiality Be Against The Law?

[InformedIgnorance]

I agree, however I believe that any legitimate legal argument that something should be illegal STEMS from causing harm without informed consent.

 

[McBell]

I agree, however I believe that any legitimate legal argument that something should be illegal STEMS from causing harm without informed consent.

Yet under aged children cannot give legal consent (in most situations that is) regardless of how well they understand.

 

[Tiberius]

Firstly , a link to a piece about 'problem gambling' - what does that prove?

It proves that gambling can cause problems when it is abused which is in contradiction to your claim that gambling is harmless.

There are plenty of alcoholics out there - should we thus ban alcohol completely for the rest of the population?

No, but we should have tighter laws about it.

Most people who gamble do so responsibly and for fun.

And most people have a healthy attitude towards sex, but there are some people who do not. What's your point?

A women can actually be charged with sexual assault, even rape no doubt.

Yes, and rape is wrong.

For example she could hold the dog down, force it to become aroused and then deposit herself on it.

Did you even read what I said? I said if a woman was on all fours, then she is going to find it nearly impossible to force the dog to do anything.

If she does as you suggest, then yes it is wrong. But it's wrong because she is forcing the animal to do something it doesn't want to do. She would be raping the dog, and it's wrong because it's rape.

If she is on all fours and the dog mounts her freely and without being forced - in short, if the dog mounts her because it wants to - then the rape claim doesn't apply.

How about horse racing - I remember you said you were opposed to that.

In which case why is that cruel yet sexually forcing yourself upon an animal not?

What the hell? Could you please READ what I write and not twist my words? Where the hell did I say that a person FORCING themselves on an animal is acceptable? I never said that and I never will. It's a terrible thing. Forcing yourself sexually on ANYTHING that doesn't want it is wrong.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

@Mestemia - Which I understand, due to the difficulty in establishing the capacity to give informed consent but I disagree with it on principle as it equates age to capacity which is a fundamentally unsound position.

 

[Tiberius]

How about majority/consensus rule then.

I am sure most people oppose bestiality - isn't that a good enough reason to ban it?

I'm sure most people in this thread disagree with you, does that mean we can ban you?

 

[Tiberius]

That animals cannot give legal consent, is a legitimate legal reason.

Okay, I have a bit of a problem with that, in a specific instance, and I'm going to say that legal consent is not required in order to avoid it being rape.

Firstly, could you define exactly what you mean by legal consent?

 

[nnmartin]

Mestemia:

Women can rape men. Rape by gender - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also remember the various cases of female teachers and under age students - the teacher often gets charged with sexual assault.

can we consider the age of the animal as a factor in this debate?

here's the key part from that link:

Much like female erectile response and contrary to popular opinion, male erectile response is involuntary,[21][22] meaning that a man need not consent mentally or physically for his penis to become erect and be placed in a woman's vagina. Penetration of a man by a woman is possible through use of a strap-on or other object. Rape of a man by a woman could also occur when limited sexual activities are agreed upon and a man's penis is placed in a woman in violation of the limits that had been set. Rape of a man by a woman is thus possible in several ways.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Personally I would suggest that being the dominant of the parties would indicate that you are not being raped - in your woman on the ground case, if the dog is the dominant of the paring which appears to be the case (unless it is being held or coerced into position or something) then the dog is not being raped.

And the ways that women can rape men usually involve removing mobility and so forth - which is one of the reasons why if the animal is the DOMINANT of the pair, it is not being raped.

 

[nnmartin]

That animals cannot give legal consent, is a legitimate legal reason.

ok, so what do you say then to Tiberius' proposal that animals can give consent?

and in your view should bestiality be banned because animals cannot give legal consent?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How about majority/consensus rule then.

I am sure most people oppose bestiality - isn't that a good enough reason to ban it?

That would be grossly unfair to those who are not opposed to ANYTHING that would be banned because the majority oppose it. America was actually designed to prevent the tyranny of the majority forcing their views upon the minority. In reality though the only people who ban something because only a minority of people support it are dictators, fascists, and general tyrants.

 

[nnmartin]

If she is on all fours and the dog mounts her freely and without being forced - in short, if the dog mounts her because it wants to - then the rape claim doesn't apply.

According to your logic then bestiality is ok only if the animal consents to it.

Now this is just daft - can you say to your pet goat - 'hey honey, fancy a quickie before lunch?'

- pure gibberish of course.

then you come up with the hypothetical scenario of a dog doing the proverbial doggie style to a woman who invites it by getting on all fours and giving it the come on.

Now, ok - that could be possible I agree.

Yet your consent issue effectively limits bestiality to women only.

Can you imagine a scenario where a man can get willing consent off a female dog?

ie: could a man walk into the garden kennel , produce his erect penis to his pet female dog and expect her to keenly ride up and down on it?

I think that very unlikely - perhaps you have a better idea though, ever tried it?

How about another idea.

at feeding time with pet female dog , instead of offering her dog meat why not man-meat instead.

3 outcomes - the dog would either ignore it, bite it off or give you head.

(I very much doubt the last outcome would occur)

give it a try, then come back and let us know if consent was given or not!

 

[Tiberius]

According to your logic then bestiality is ok only if the animal consents to it.

Now this is just daft - can you say to your pet goat - 'hey honey, fancy a quickie before lunch?'

- pure gibberish of course.

Yes, I agree, and if you think that's the argument I was making then you're very very wrong.

But if you send sexual signals to the animal and the animal responds to them in a way that indicates that it too wants sex, then doesn't that work as the animal giving you the go ahead?

then you come up with the hypothetical scenario of a dog doing the proverbial doggie style to a woman who invites it by getting on all fours and giving it the come on.

Now, ok - that could be possible I agree.

Glad you have finally agreed with me on something!

Yet your consent issue effectively limits bestiality to women only.

How so? That particular position would also suit men who want to get a bit of anal action. And if you think that's the only possible position, then you are again mistaken.

Can you imagine a scenario where a man can get willing consent off a female dog?

Yes. Any situation where the man initiates it and the female dog doesn't try to get away. If she's on heat she'll be pretty horny, and I doubt a fe,male dog is going to say, "A Human? Ew, no way!"

ie: could a man walk into the garden kennel , produce his erect penis to his pet female dog and expect her to keenly ride up and down on it?

Could you walk into your home, show off your rod and tackle to your wife and expect her to say, "Oh, yes please!"

Like I said, not all situations will be ones where a man can have sex with a female dog. But if she is on heat, then she'll likely respond to the right sexual advances.

I think that very unlikely - perhaps you have a better idea though, ever tried it?

How about another idea.

at feeding time with pet female dog , instead of offering her dog meat why not man-meat instead.

3 outcomes - the dog would either ignore it, bite it off or give you head.

(I very much doubt the last outcome would occur)

give it a try, then come back and let us know if consent was given or not!

Geez, you are putting too much thought into this.

In fact, given that you said you were going to leave this thread and now you have come back, perhaps you are the one who is secretly excited by this?

And where do you get the idea that since I am arguing that it should not be illegal that I am a practitioner of it? I also argue in support of equal rights for gay people. Does that make me gay too? of course not.

Simpel fact is, a dig can send off signals that indicate that it is ready for sex. If a person also send off those signals, then a dog that is interested will respond. Likewise, a dog can send off those signals, and a human that can recognise them can also respond. As long as the animal is not trying to escape but chooses to stay even if it is given the opportunity to leave freely, I don't see how you can argue that it is without consent.

And finally, why are you arguing that such sexual acts can only include penetration? It wouldn't be that hard to get a dog to lick you, of either gender. Some people get off on that too. And it doesn't require penetration of either party.

So in short, all you;ve provided is a bunch of fairly specific circumstances and claimed that they apply to the majority of bestiality activities. And they don't.

 

[McBell]

@Mestemia - Which I understand, due to the difficulty in establishing the capacity to give informed consent but I disagree with it on principle as it equates age to capacity which is a fundamentally unsound position.

Only for those who do not pursue it.
There are emancipation laws to allow minors who can prove they comprehend to enter into into such situations legally.

 

[McBell]

Mestemia:

Women can rape men. Rape by gender - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also remember the various cases of female teachers and under age students - the teacher often gets charged with sexual assault.

can we consider the age of the animal as a factor in this debate?

here's the key part from that link:

Still attacking your strawman I see.

 

[McBell]

ok, so what do you say then to Tiberius' proposal that animals can give consent?

Animals can give consent.
However their consent is not considered valid in the eyes of the law.

and in your view should bestiality be banned because animals cannot give legal consent?

I dunno.

Honestly I could care less.
Since I have no sexual interest in animals...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

According to your logic then bestiality is ok only if the animal consents to it.

Exactly.

Can you imagine a scenario where a man can get willing consent off a female dog?
ie: could a man walk into the garden kennel , produce his erect penis to his pet female dog and expect her to keenly ride up and down on it?

This would be easier to explain to you if you knew about how dogs present themselves. The dog would not "keenly ride up and down on it" because that is not what they do. However if she felt like getting some she would simply get into her own sexual position, and her vaginal lips would be engorged.
And a male human and male dog can also have sex as well. Saying the only scenario is a male human/female dog is to forget that homosexuality has been observed in a ton of animals.

at feeding time with pet female dog , instead of offering her dog meat why not man-meat instead.

3 outcomes - the dog would either ignore it, bite it off or give you head.

(I very much doubt the last outcome would occur)

give it a try, then come back and let us know if consent was given or not!

Not my thing to want to try. But in such a scenario the dog would either start licking or just ignore it.

 

[cablescavenger]

The following article was brought to my attention by a post made by Father Heathen.

"The Enumclaw horse sex case

The Enumclaw horse sex case was a 2005 incident in which Kenneth Pinyan[1] (June 22, 1960 – July 2, 2005), an American Boeing engineer residing in Gig Harbor,[2] died from receiving anal sex with a stallion at a farm in an unincorporated area in King County, Washington, near the city of Enumclaw. He had videotaped previous sex acts with the horses and distributed them informally under the name Mr. Hands.

During a July 2005 sex act, videotaped by a friend, he suffered a perforated colon and later died of his injuries. The story was reported in The Seattle Times and was one of that paper's most read stories of 2005.[3] It was informally referred to as the "Enumclaw horse sex case".[4]

Pinyan's death rapidly prompted the passing of a bill in Washington prohibiting both sex with animals and the videotaping of the same. Under current Washington law, bestiality is now a Class C felony punishable by up to five years in prison."
source
​

This raised the question I pose in the title, Why should bestiality be against the law?

In many countries, such as, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Hungary, and Japan, bestiality (zoophilia) is legal. In all but three of the United States it's illegal. Montana, North Carolina, and Kansas are the exceptions.

OK, good argument, I am convinced. Have your way with the goats, hats off to you.

 

[nnmartin]

How so? That particular position would also suit men who want to get a bit of anal action. And if you think that's the only possible position, then you are again mistaken.

I don't think a dog would be attracted to a male human's anus.

Yes. Any situation where the man initiates it and the female dog doesn't try to get away. If she's on heat she'll be pretty horny, and I doubt a fe,male dog is going to say, "A Human? Ew, no way!"

I think you are wrong there too. I used to keep dogs and when the females were in heat they never gave me the come on.

Like I said, not all situations will be ones where a man can have sex with a female dog. But if she is on heat, then she'll likely respond to the right sexual advances.

more Tiberius Troll garbage!

In fact, given that you said you were going to leave this thread and now you have come back, perhaps you are the one who is secretly excited by this?

Perhaps I just got bored more like!

And where do you get the idea that since I am arguing that it should not be illegal that I am a practitioner of it?

It certainly creates an element of doubt though.

As long as the animal is not trying to escape but chooses to stay even if it is given the opportunity to leave freely, I don't see how you can argue that it is without consent.

The dog doesn't have the mental capacity to know what is going on.
It would be the same as having sex with a mentally impaired person which is generally considered as rape.

And finally, why are you arguing that such sexual acts can only include penetration? It wouldn't be that hard to get a dog to lick you, of either gender. Some people get off on that too. And it doesn't require penetration of either party.

It may perhaps lick you for a few seconds before losing interest due to the wrong chemical signals being given off.

So in short, all you;ve provided is a bunch of fairly specific circumstances and claimed that they apply to the majority of bestiality activities. And they don't.

What kind of a weirdo argues for the legalisation of bestiality?

Answer (The Tiberius kind!)

 

[nnmartin]

RE: and in your view should bestiality be banned because animals cannot give legal consent?

I dunno.

Honestly I could care less.
Since I have no sexual interest in animals...

sitting on the fence now are we?

that's kind of lame!

 

[riley2112]

RE: and in your view should bestiality be banned because animals cannot give legal consent?


sitting on the fence now are we?

that's kind of lame!

Just one question for you all. HAVE YOU LOST YOUR DAMN MINDS. This is just a thread for people that have nothing better to do than argue. How ******* stupid.:slap: