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Why should I believe in your religion and faith?

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Thank you for taking the time to share your faith and convictions. I would like to hear more when you have time.
I always have time, and I am always interested in sharing. Just don't want to be pushy, that's all.

I was hoping to find more objective evidence because religious people can be sincere, but believe in contradictory religious concepts.
You're absolutely right. I'm curious, though, as to what kinds of evidence you would consider to be "objective"?

Could you please tell me how the Mormon Faith started?
The Mormon faith started when a fourteen-year old boy was searching for the truth. He was confused by the disparity of beliefs within the Christian community of his time. In trying to resolve his questions by an appeal to the Bible, he happened upon James 1:5, which says, "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not, and it shall be given him." Since the one thing he knew for sure was that he did, in fact, lack wisdom, he decided to do what James suggested and ask God: "Which of all the Churches I might choose to join, teaches the truth?" Early one spring morning in 1820, he left his house in rural upstate New York and went into a quiet grove of trees nearby, where he knelt in prayer. According to his own account, a glorious light that was brighter than the noonday sun descended upon him. Within that light stood two individuals. One of them called him by name, and said, "Joseph, this is my beloved Son. Hear him." When he was finally able to regain his composure, he asked the question that was the purpose of his prayer. The Son of God responded by telling him that the fulness of His gospel was no longer found on the earth, and that the churches of that time contained "a form of godliness" without the power necessary to speak the truth with authority. He was told not to join any church at that time.

From this experience, Joseph learned that the Father and the Son are two physically distinct beings. He also learned that his Heavenly Father knew him personally and that He did, in fact, hear and answer our prayers. Several years later, he had another vision. This time an angel of the Lord, a resurrected being known as Moroni, appeared to Him and told him of an ancient record buried near his home. Moroni told him that this record contained the secular and religious history of a group of people who had once lived on the American continent. It included an account of the Savior's visit to these people following His Resurrection and Ascension. God had chosen him to translate this record. He would be directed in this effort by the power of the Almighty and would be given the same authority as Jesus Christ once gave Peter. Through him, the same church as had existed anciently would be restored to the earth.

That's it in a nutshell. A really small nutshell. Does it sound pretty hard to believe? If it does, I'm not surprised. Joseph once said that if he had not experienced firsthand the things he had, he wouldn't have believed them either. The Latter-day Saints believe that the Church Jesus Christ established near the end of His ministry fell into apostasy after the deaths of the Apostles and that while Christianity had never ceased to exist, many of the doctrines Christ had taught evolved over time. Because there was no longer anyone on earth who held the authority once held by Christ's Apostles, the church was left to survive without continued direction from its divine Head. The Protestant Reformation had been an inspired attempt to fix what had gone wrong, but it wasn't enough. There was only one way Christ's Church could be re-established, and that was by the Christ Himself. A reformation was insufficient. What was needed was a restoration -- from the ground up.

What are the main differences between a LDS Christian, Roman Catholic Christian, Orthodox Christian, and an Evangelical Christian?
We actually have much in common with traditional Christianity, but we are also unique among Christians in a number of ways. I'd say the main differences between us are these: (1) We believe in God the Eternal Father, and in His Son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost -- but we do not accept the 4th and 5th century creeds which speak of them as a single substance or essence. In other words, we reject the post-Apostolic doctrine of the Trinity. (2) We believe that the Bible is God's word, but that it is not the only record we have of God's dealings with His children. We also accept three other volumes of scripture, the best known of which is "The Book of Mormon." (3) We believe that a living prophet directs Jesus Christ's Church today and that he is assisted by twelve Apostles who have exactly the same authority as the Apostles Jesus called anciently. (4) We believe that God has a plan for each one of us, that we lived in spirit form with Him before we were born, that we actually chose to come to earth, and that we will someday return to His presence. The purpose of our existance is to have joy now and throughout eternity, and to become as much like our Father in Heaven as possible.

Do all of these faiths worship a different Christian God?
No, they all worship the same God. They simply understand Him differently. Whether I pray or a Catholic prays or a Baptist prays, the same God will hear and answer each one of us.

It almost seems by your statement that absolute truth cannot be known in this world.
Okay, let me put it this way... I believe that absolute truth does exist. I also believe I've found it. I just don't think that there is any way for me to prove it. Consequently, I prefer not to even try. No one is born knowing the truth. Each of us must ultimately determine what we believe to be true as we experience life. We want to be able to make our decisions based on logic. We want to be objective and yet, with respect to spiritual knowledge, this is almost impossible. We are influenced by so many different factors (both internal and external) and each of us is the product of his environment. Everything we are able to experience with our senses is pretty much subjective. I may have found absolute truth, but for now, I can't know that for sure. So basically, I live my life as if I have found it, but when it comes to trying to convince someone else of it, I pretty much act as if it doesn't exist.
 

Fish-Hunter

Rejoice in the Lord!
I always have time, and I am always interested in sharing. Just don't want to be pushy, that's all.

You're absolutely right. I'm curious, though, as to what kinds of evidence you would consider to be "objective"?

The Mormon faith started when a fourteen-year old boy was searching for the truth. He was confused by the disparity of beliefs within the Christian community of his time. In trying to resolve his questions by an appeal to the Bible, he happened upon James 1:5, which says, "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not, and it shall be given him." Since the one thing he knew for sure was that he did, in fact, lack wisdom, he decided to do what James suggested and ask God: "Which of all the Churches I might choose to join, teaches the truth?" Early one spring morning in 1820, he left his house in rural upstate New York and went into a quiet grove of trees nearby, where he knelt in prayer. According to his own account, a glorious light that was brighter than the noonday sun descended upon him. Within that light stood two individuals. One of them called him by name, and said, "Joseph, this is my beloved Son. Hear him." When he was finally able to regain his composure, he asked the question that was the purpose of his prayer. The Son of God responded by telling him that the fulness of His gospel was no longer found on the earth, and that the churches of that time contained "a form of godliness" without the power necessary to speak the truth with authority. He was told not to join any church at that time.

From this experience, Joseph learned that the Father and the Son are two physically distinct beings. He also learned that his Heavenly Father knew him personally and that He did, in fact, hear and answer our prayers. Several years later, he had another vision. This time an angel of the Lord, a resurrected being known as Moroni, appeared to Him and told him of an ancient record buried near his home. Moroni told him that this record contained the secular and religious history of a group of people who had once lived on the American continent. It included an account of the Savior's visit to these people following His Resurrection and Ascension. God had chosen him to translate this record. He would be directed in this effort by the power of the Almighty and would be given the same authority as Jesus Christ once gave Peter. Through him, the same church as had existed anciently would be restored to the earth.

That's it in a nutshell. A really small nutshell. Does it sound pretty hard to believe? If it does, I'm not surprised. Joseph once said that if he had not experienced firsthand the things he had, he wouldn't have believed them either. The Latter-day Saints believe that the Church Jesus Christ established near the end of His ministry fell into apostasy after the deaths of the Apostles and that while Christianity had never ceased to exist, many of the doctrines Christ had taught evolved over time. Because there was no longer anyone on earth who held the authority once held by Christ's Apostles, the church was left to survive without continued direction from its divine Head. The Protestant Reformation had been an inspired attempt to fix what had gone wrong, but it wasn't enough. There was only one way Christ's Church could be re-established, and that was by the Christ Himself. A reformation was insufficient. What was needed was a restoration -- from the ground up.

We actually have much in common with traditional Christianity, but we are also unique among Christians in a number of ways. I'd say the main differences between us are these: (1) We believe in God the Eternal Father, and in His Son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost -- but we do not accept the 4th and 5th century creeds which speak of them as a single substance or essence. In other words, we reject the post-Apostolic doctrine of the Trinity. (2) We believe that the Bible is God's word, but that it is not the only record we have of God's dealings with His children. We also accept three other volumes of scripture, the best known of which is "The Book of Mormon." (3) We believe that a living prophet directs Jesus Christ's Church today and that he is assisted by twelve Apostles who have exactly the same authority as the Apostles Jesus called anciently. (4) We believe that God has a plan for each one of us, that we lived in spirit form with Him before we were born, that we actually chose to come to earth, and that we will someday return to His presence. The purpose of our existance is to have joy now and throughout eternity, and to become as much like our Father in Heaven as possible.

No, they all worship the same God. They simply understand Him differently. Whether I pray or a Catholic prays or a Baptist prays, the same God will hear and answer each one of us.

Okay, let me put it this way... I believe that absolute truth does exist. I also believe I've found it. I just don't think that there is any way for me to prove it. Consequently, I prefer not to even try. No one is born knowing the truth. Each of us must ultimately determine what we believe to be true as we experience life. We want to be able to make our decisions based on logic. We want to be objective and yet, with respect to spiritual knowledge, this is almost impossible. We are influenced by so many different factors (both internal and external) and each of us is the product of his environment. Everything we are able to experience with our senses is pretty much subjective. I may have found absolute truth, but for now, I can't know that for sure. So basically, I live my life as if I have found it, but when it comes to trying to convince someone else of it, I pretty much act as if it doesn't exist.

Dear Katzpur,

Thank you for sharing your Mormon Faith. I find your strong convictions to be very refreshing. I think you are the first one to share that absolute truth exists, and you personally have found it. Conviction in a faith or a religion is a very important characteristic that I want to consider. I know strong convictions in the Mormon religion does not make it true, but a lack of conviction does not convince me that someone has found the truth. I’m not sure what I would consider as objective evidence at this point of my spiritual search. You wrote some very unorthodox Christian concepts that are quite different than I understood of the Christian Faith. I personally have studied traditional Christianity and read the Bible. It appears the Mormon Faith is less than 200 years old, since God appeared to the young boy in the year of 1820. Please share what you consider to be objective evidence for the Mormon Faith, and I will consider it. Thanks again for investing your time to share your religion and faith.
 

RedRain

Member
Thank you for sharing. I never knew of this type of Christianity. I will need to spend time reading about it. In short summary, could you share the major differences between your faith and ordinary Christianity.

1. The greatest difference, in my opinion, is the belief in one God who is Jesus, the references to Father and Son and Holy spirit in the Bible are referencing three aspects of the same God. Jesus is the part of God that we see, where the Father is more the soul of God that is less easily seen.

2. We believe in salvation by a personal internal repentance rather than salvation by any external motions or through a belief that Jesus saves. One must desist from doing the evil that he or she wills and then should attempt to desist from willing it. Only after someone repents from evil can they truly do anything good.

3. We believe in the eternity of marriage. I believe some other Christian faiths believe in this as well, but we believe that one man is raised to be with one woman and that if they do not meet in this world, provided they are good people, they will meet in the next.

4. We also believe in the idea that God does not condemn people, but that people condemn themselves. People are not thrown into hell but rush into it after their desires rise more to the surface. It is where they feel at home.
 

Azakel

Liebe ist für alle da
I want to explore spiritual things that cannot be seen. The universe is too big to believe that spiritual things do not exist. There are so many religions and I don't know where to start. Why is your particular religion or faith more truthful than another one?

It isn't :shrug:
But my way is only for me. It holds no strong base for it and really is all was changing. You might come to the same thing and though the two might seem the some they won't be my friend. Though one day I might come to a place that my beliefs don't change.
 

Draka

Wonder Woman
It isn't :shrug:
But my way is only for me. It holds no strong base for it and really is all was changing. You might come to the same thing and though the two might seem the some they won't be my friend. Though one day I might come to a place that my beliefs don't change.


See, that's kind of what I am getting at/stressing. With the way I view Deity, the view that gods and goddesses are all manifestations of the Energy Source, then all gods and goddesses exist as equally as others. Allowing that all paths are just as valid for the ones pursuing them. So it is quite honest to say that your way is only for you, for you have found the particular path that your unique view gives you to follow.

At times in your life you may come to crossroads of sorts where, for some reason or another, you find yourself viewing things from a different standpoint. This is where conversions come in.

While I won't say that any religion is "wrong", I will say that some religions don't allow for the larger picture. That they may be very limited in where they can take their standpoints from and, therefore, may not be able to totally view the painting as it is really meant to be seen. Doesn't mean they don't see a bit of it though, they are just a little out of sight and have, perhaps, something blinding them to the whole picture.

As long as all gods and goddesses are all parts of the One Source, then all religions have some portion of the "truth", even if they fail to see the larger picture of the Source of their deities.
 

Azakel

Liebe ist für alle da
See, that's kind of what I am getting at/stressing. With the way I view Deity, the view that gods and goddesses are all manifestations of the Energy Source, then all gods and goddesses exist as equally as others. Allowing that all paths are just as valid for the ones pursuing them. So it is quite honest to say that your way is only for you, for you have found the particular path that your unique view gives you to follow.

At times in your life you may come to crossroads of sorts where, for some reason or another, you find yourself viewing things form a different standpoint. This is where conversions come in.

While I won't say that any religion is "wrong", I will say that some religions don't allow for the larger picture. That they may be very limited in where they can take their standpoints from and, therefore, may not be able to totally view the painting as it is really meant to be seen. Doesn't mean they don't see a bit of it though, they are just a little out of sight and have, perhaps, something blinding them to the whole picture.

As long as all gods and goddesses are all parts of the One Source, then all religions have some portion of the "truth", even if they fail to see the larger picture of the Source of their deities.

That is vary well said Draka. I like it, and it really makes sense to me. ^_^
 

Fish-Hunter

Rejoice in the Lord!
I'm a Swedenborgian, which is a type of Christian in that we worship Jesus.
Here's some links for further info:

The Swedenborgian Church-Tenets of Swedenborgianism
Summary of New Church Beliefs

1. The greatest difference, in my opinion, is the belief in one God who is Jesus, the references to Father and Son and Holy spirit in the Bible are referencing three aspects of the same God. Jesus is the part of God that we see, where the Father is more the soul of God that is less easily seen.

2. We believe in salvation by a personal internal repentance rather than salvation by any external motions or through a belief that Jesus saves. One must desist from doing the evil that he or she wills and then should attempt to desist from willing it. Only after someone repents from evil can they truly do anything good.

3. We believe in the eternity of marriage. I believe some other Christian faiths believe in this as well, but we believe that one man is raised to be with one woman and that if they do not meet in this world, provided they are good people, they will meet in the next.

4. We also believe in the idea that God does not condemn people, but that people condemn themselves. People are not thrown into hell but rush into it after their desires rise more to the surface. It is where they feel at home.

Thanks RedRain, this is very interesting too. I have been researching the LDS Faith on the computer and found some similarities between with Katzpur appears to believe and you. I want to make sure my understanding of your faith and Katzpur's personal faith is accurate and correct. Mormon.org

Both Sweedenborgian and Mormons are Christians but reject many tenants of traditional and historical Christianity, correct? It appears both Religions reject the historical Christian doctrine of the Holy Trinity. Both Religions believe in an eternal marriage that goes beyond this world. That's good because I have been married for 21 years. Both religions use more than the Christian Bible to determine what they believe. I think the additional writings of each faith were from the founders of their faith through revelation from God, correct? For Mormons, the additonal beliefs are from the 14 year old boy - Prophet Joseph Smith, For Sweedenborigian Christians it would be the 18th century scientist and theologian Emanuel Swedenborg. Do you think I'm correct so far? I am not in a hurry to choose a religion, and everybody has been sharing what they believe is such a nice way. I don't mind if people come across if they are trying to convert me. I enjoy reading the convictions of others in what they believe.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Thank you,that is a very interesting and thought provoking statement! If I understand your statement, truth is one (obejective and just IS). However, there are many paths to that one objective truth. Do you believe truth can also be a supreme being too? Could you please explain what you mean by truth is one?

If spiritual people are on a pligrmage through different paths, where are spiritual people trying to arrive and why? Why should I be on a spiritual path, and for what purpose? If many paths lead to that one truth, does it really matter what path I should take?

That is an interesting question. THe Sikh religion's name ofr God is "Sat" which means truth and Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life."

My guess is that people are wading through a host of religious nonsense trying to find the truth.

Spiritual things are eternal; you take them with you when you die. As Jesus put it "lay up treasures in Heaven where neither moth nor rust corrupts."

What you die with is what you live with. After death you will remain the same until your next life when you can improve your spiritual state further.

It is doubtful that a Hindu can find his way to Christianity through Hinduism. Christianity offers life. No other religion can make this claim although it is possible to find a modicum of life in other religions.
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend Fish Hunter,
Now become an Answere hunter or if you call that fish; its fine.
There was no religion then came humans and enquiries about existence etc. The way to the answeres were so many that any way/path/religion can be used to reach the goal.
What is good for you is the question; what suits you, you only will know best.
Study everything and then decide on any.
Finally its all ONE or NOTHINGNESS, just a VOID.
If you want to reach there directly then do DHAYA or meditation or ZEN in short.
Love & rgds
 

Fish-Hunter

Rejoice in the Lord!
That is an interesting question. THe Sikh religion's name ofr God is "Sat" which means truth and Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life."

My guess is that people are wading through a host of religious nonsense trying to find the truth.

Spiritual things are eternal; you take them with you when you die. As Jesus put it "lay up treasures in Heaven where neither moth nor rust corrupts."

What you die with is what you live with. After death you will remain the same until your next life when you can improve your spiritual state further.

It is doubtful that a Hindu can find his way to Christianity through Hinduism. Christianity offers life. No other religion can make this claim although it is possible to find a modicum of life in other religions.

Thank you Muffled for your posting! I am familiar with the bible reference of Jesus saying "I am the way, the truth and the life". I believe it's from the book of Luke or John. If you take the Bible as the sole revelation from God, the traditional or historical Christian belief is very exclusive. I'm not saying that this is false or true. I just want to understand what is actually taught and believed by a religious group. I noticed that you are a Christian. It seems that you would be considered a traditional or historical Christian? I am puzzled by of your comment that "someone can improve your spiritual state further". Please share what you mean by that since I'm not familiar with teaching of that statement from my research on tradtional Christianity. Are you a Bible alone, or evangelical Christian?
 

Fish-Hunter

Rejoice in the Lord!
Friend Fish Hunter,
Now become an Answere hunter or if you call that fish; its fine.
There was no religion then came humans and enquiries about existence etc. The way to the answeres were so many that any way/path/religion can be used to reach the goal.
What is good for you is the question; what suits you, you only will know best.
Study everything and then decide on any.
Finally its all ONE or NOTHINGNESS, just a VOID.
If you want to reach there directly then do DHAYA or meditation or ZEN in short.
Love & rgds

That's very thought provoking zenzero. I guess I am an "Answer hunter" for objective truth. What do you mean by "if you want to reach there directly...."? Where should I try to arrive and why? What's at the end of the spiritual journey for those on the Zen path?
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Frienf Fishhunter,
What is the object of your search?
here you grow only that much you want to.
So, first decide what you are looking for but whatever it maybe even if material things by meditation / dyana / zen you get it, surefire way.
Love & rgds
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend Fishhunter,
One point my missed responding to was about your quesry on *DIRECTLY*
It means if you do not want to take the trouble of going through studying about the various religions / paths / ways available to you before deciding to take up what suits you or with which you can be comfortable.
Then it is what I mentioned.SAve time and energy.
Love & rgds
 

Fish-Hunter

Rejoice in the Lord!
Frienf Fishhunter,
What is the object of your search?
here you grow only that much you want to.
So, first decide what you are looking for but whatever it maybe even if material things by meditation / dyana / zen you get it, surefire way.
Love & rgds

Hi zenzero,

Thanks for the follow up discussion. I guess the object of my search is to find the truth with the self-interest that the truth will give me peace, happiness, contentment, joy, and purpose. I think all humans are basically on that same search without realizing it. Have some arrived at that destination? Can objective truth be found in this life?
 

Fish-Hunter

Rejoice in the Lord!
Does anyone have some free time to share their religion or personal faith in God? I would love to read about your faith over a virtual cup of coffee. :coffee2:
 

Fish-Hunter

Rejoice in the Lord!
Click the link in my sig. :) That should keep you busy for a bit ;)

Thanks Storm, that is quite different but also very interesting. How long did it take you to develop your faith? Did certain books influence you in developing your faith? Is your faith also a shared religion by others in this universe too? I do not deny the probability of life outside our world.
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Thanks Storm, that is quite different but also very interesting.
You're most welcome.

How long did it take you to develop your faith?
17 years and counting.

Did certain books influence you in developing your faith?
While I don't deny my many and varied influences, there's no one thing I can point to as a reference.

Is your faith also a shared religion by others in this universe too? I do not deny the probability of life outside our world.
Not that I know of.

ETA: To address the OP, you should believe in my religion if and only if it seems true to you. Even then, I would encourage you to seek the answers for yourself. If you arrive at conclusions similar to mine, coolness. If not, that's fun, too.
 

RedRain

Member
Thanks RedRain, this is very interesting too. I have been researching the LDS Faith on the computer and found some similarities between with Katzpur appears to believe and you. I want to make sure my understanding of your faith and Katzpur's personal faith is accurate and correct. Mormon.org

Both Sweedenborgian and Mormons are Christians but reject many tenants of traditional and historical Christianity, correct? It appears both Religions reject the historical Christian doctrine of the Holy Trinity. Both Religions believe in an eternal marriage that goes beyond this world. That's good because I have been married for 21 years. Both religions use more than the Christian Bible to determine what they believe. I think the additional writings of each faith were from the founders of their faith through revelation from God, correct? For Mormons, the additonal beliefs are from the 14 year old boy - Prophet Joseph Smith, For Sweedenborigian Christians it would be the 18th century scientist and theologian Emanuel Swedenborg. Do you think I'm correct so far? I am not in a hurry to choose a religion, and everybody has been sharing what they believe is such a nice way. I don't mind if people come across if they are trying to convert me. I enjoy reading the convictions of others in what they believe.

The interesting thing about the Trinity doctrine is that Mormans seem to have gone one way, that Jesus and the Father are two separate entities, and Swedenborgians the other, that Jesus is God Himself.

I think I again forgot to mention in the major points of Swedenborgianism that we believe that people of all faiths can be saved. It is not to say that what they believe in their faith about God is correct, just that God is a loving God whose essence is to love one another and to refrain from doing harm to each other. If someone in their religion is refraining from causing harm and doing good to their fellow man it would make sense that God would have a place for them in heaven, at least, to me.
 

TurkeyOnRye

Well-Known Member
Fish-Hunter, I have been searching for truth for a long time. What I have learned is that it doesn't matter where we are going in this life. The end of our path is not really end. The journeys that we take in life are what matters. The journey itself is both the means and the end. This very moment is all that matters. This very moment is the only truth. Hold out your hands and just look at them for a moment...THIS is it!
 
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