Why should I ignore myself?

[Evolutionary Model]

Well, you can form your own opinions, but you can also integrate others, if you see fit to do so.

 

[Alex_G]

Or rather my own experiences and personal spiritual revelations in favor of someone else's? Why should the religious opinions or stories in a book or of someone else who may or may not have lived long ago trump my own opinions and reasoning and revelations? Why should I even try to ignore myself in favor of you and your respective holy book? What possible reason would I have for doing so and why do you feel I should have to?

I wonder if it is even possible to ignore oneself...? Might your 'own experiences and personal spiritual revelations' include in its making your exposure to your environment, and the views and beliefs of others around you?
To what end you are a master of your own identity is debatable, with so many external factors shaping you into who you are, with much even flying under the radar of your own consciousness.

In the eye of your consciousness, and in the reality of experiencing the world from that seat, you will be as much yourself as is sensible to define, and with that freedom you should be allowed to pick and choose the meaning and significance you see in the world around you, using all those faculties with which you are so endowed. To truly ignore oneself with regards to others is to not even be yourself.

Alex

 

[Joe_Stocks]

I think someone said something along these lines, are you the smartest person in the world? If you think so, then sure, only your experiences carry any authortitative value. But if you have an ounce of humility you will realize there are a lot of people that may have experienced some things you could learn from.

 

[Draka]

Because the Truth, while complex, is still binary. Because guesses are worthy of musings and thought experiments, but anything further than musing about them and you're taking a gamble. Because some beliefs are just plain too out there to be taken seriously.

Who determines what is not to be taken seriously and why do you think truth is binary? Seems very narrow-minded when speaking of the realm of spirituality and Divine.

You ever have a one on one discussion with God/Divine/What Have You yourself? I'm not talking glimpses here or there, or gut feelings. I'm talking about "Hey God! Let's sit down for a bit of tea. I'll tell You about my day and You can tell me the hidden secrets of all existence." You and I both know the answer is no. That's why you need an intermediary. As for why you should trust said intermediary? You think God would honestly send us a messenger to steer us the wrong way?

And in response to your next question . . .

Why do you think I haven't had a discussion with Deity? I'm not talking gut feelings or intuition either. I am speaking of full out questions and full out answers. Besides, why do you think that an intermediary has any greater ability than you or I to communicate with the Divine? Why are they so special and who determines them to be so?

 

[Draka]

I think someone said something along these lines, are you the smartest person in the world? If you think so, then sure, only your experiences carry any authortitative value. But if you have an ounce of humility you will realize there are a lot of people that may have experienced some things you could learn from.

Sure people have different experiences. Sure we can see what we may be able to take from them. We analyze what others say and see if it holds truth to us and our reasoning. The question becomes, why should I accept that anyone else's take is any better than my own? Why do some people think they have not only the best answers for themselves, but for everyone else and insist that others should believe as they do?

 

[Willamena]

Truth is binary. Something either is true or is untrue.

Truth is also relative, it's binary for each of us and revealed only as much as our knowledge and understanding.

 

[CaptainBritain]

Why do you think I haven't had a discussion with Deity? I'm not talking gut feelings or intuition either. I am speaking of full out questions and full out answers. Besides, why do you think that an intermediary has any greater ability than you or I to communicate with the Divine? Why are they so special and who determines them to be so?

imho they are not special, special to me means there would be few of them, because if there was lots and lots of them they would move along the bell curve to being more ordinary than special.

You are right, if there is a God, your lines of communication are as open as anybody elses.

Unless a person can stroll in your brain they cant claim any different,

 

[Draka]

Truth is binary. Something either is true or is untrue. There's no such thing as "half-truth" only incomplete answers.

with a whole array of possibilities, a whole array of realms and dimensions from which to learn from, there become many varieties and flavors of what spiritual truth may be.

If I told you that I think that human beings are the offspring of Unicorns and Pegasuses and that My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic is trying to educate us on the truth of our origins but the reptilian overlords are working with the illuminati to obscure this reality from us through the use of My Little Pony memes, you'd think this is far fetched. This is a stretch, logically speaking. You have the power of deduction. Just because a concept is steeped in religion doesn't mean that people have a free pass to turn off their deductive reasoning. In other words, don't be so open minded that you let any old piece of garbage take residence in it.

At the same time though, I can just as easily say to you to not be so closed-minded as to deny every possibility to learn from in favor of only a chosen possibility that you find yourself comfortable with or only able to understand. Just because you may not understand certain possibilities or concepts does not mean they are silly or not worth some considering.

God is without equal and beyond the realm of human perception. Being in the presence of God would be like existing in the core of the sun in your current physical state. You would be overwhelmed and destroyed. Hence the need for intermediaries, or Prophets, who are special because God made them to be so.

All of that is merely your belief and opinion. It does not make it so. If it were so, then there wouldn't be all these different religions in the world. All these different viewpoints. There are many who speak directly with the Divine and many who receive answers. This is not contingent on whether you believe that the particular individuals were hand picked by your god of choice.

You and I have differing religious viewpoints. We will not agree.

Very much so different viewpoints.

This debate is pointless. With that said, I end with this . . .

Okie dokie then.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Truth is binary. Something either is true or is untrue. There's no such thing as "half-truth" only incomplete answers.

Agreed. But there can be something that varies whether it is true or not, like politics. It depends on what people want... Some people want Freedom for just them, others want Freedom for all, and sometimes people want no freedom at all, etc.

If I told you that I think that human beings are the offspring of Unicorns and Pegasuses and that My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic is trying to educate us on the truth of our origins but the reptilian overlords are working with the illuminati to obscure this reality from us through the use of My Little Pony memes, you'd think this is far fetched. This is a stretch, logically speaking. You have the power of deduction. Just because a concept is steeped in religion doesn't mean that people have a free pass to turn off their deductive reasoning. In other words, don't be so open minded that you let any old piece of garbage take residence in it.

Hmm?

God is without equal and beyond the realm of human perception. Being in the presence of God would be like existing in the core of the sun in your current physical state. You would be overwhelmed and destroyed.

Uh... So what your saying is, we can't meet things more powerful than us or greater than us? Disagree.

Hence the need for intermediaries, or Prophets, who are special because God made them to be so.

Pfft. Prophets are like weather men.

You and I have differing religious viewpoints. We will not agree. This debate is pointless. With that said, I end with this . . .

Agree to that, some people will fight to the very end to support their beliefs.

 

[Draka]

imho they are not special, special to me means there would be few of them, because if there was lots and lots of them they would move along the bell curve to being more ordinary than special.

You are right, if there is a God, your lines of communication are as open as anybody elses.

Unless a person can stroll in your brain they cant claim any different,

Strolling in my brain might be a very confusing place for some people to be. I haven't put up the warning signs where the trains have jumped tracks yet.

 

[Acim]

This thread is a most interesting read. Thanks for starting it Draka. You are a wise Teacher.

(My intermediary told me to tell you that)

 

[The Sum of Awe]

At the same time though, I can just as easily say to you to not be so closed-minded as to deny every possibility to learn from in favor of only a chosen possibility that you find yourself comfortable with or only able to understand. Just because you may not understand certain possibilities or concepts does not mean they are silly or not worth some considering.

Then again, just because it is possible doesn't make it real.

All of that is merely your belief and opinion. It does not make it so. If it were so, then there wouldn't be all these different religions in the world. All these different viewpoints. There are many who speak directly with the Divine and many who receive answers. This is not contingent on whether you believe that the particular individuals were hand picked by your god of choice.

Agree to a limit.

There are many who speak directly to natural things and think it is the Divine or think it is good enough to be the Divine.

 

[CaptainBritain]

Truth is binary. Something either is true or is untrue. There's no such thing as "half-truth" only incomplete answers.

If I told you that I think that human beings are the offspring of Unicorns and Pegasuses and that My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic is trying to educate us on the truth of our origins but the reptilian overlords are working with the illuminati to obscure this reality from us through the use of My Little Pony memes, you'd think this is far fetched. This is a stretch, logically speaking. You have the power of deduction. Just because a concept is steeped in religion doesn't mean that people have a free pass to turn off their deductive reasoning. In other words, don't be so open minded that you let any old piece of garbage take residence in it.

God is without equal and beyond the realm of human perception. Being in the presence of God would be like existing in the core of the sun in your current physical state. You would be overwhelmed and destroyed. Hence the need for intermediaries, or Prophets, who are special because God made them to be so.

You and I have differing religious viewpoints. We will not agree. This debate is pointless. With that said, I end with this . . .

Claims without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, two claims without evidence carry the exact same weight, try and substantiate anything you just said there,

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Why should I even try to ignore myself in favor of you and your respective holy book? What possible reason would I have for doing so and why do you feel I should have to?

Who?
.
.
.
.

(Owl joke.)

Anyway, you shouldn't. There is no prophet truer than you are.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

You would never possibly be able to invent the internal combustion engine all by yourself seeing as how you'd have to both invent math as well as cover hundreds of years of discoveries in chemistry and physics first. Why should you expect religion and spirituality to be any different?

I am a ghost expert. And I haven't had any training or read any books about ghosts. I know as much about ghosts as any other human on the planet. Bring me a professor of ghosts and I'll show you what I mean.

Same with God, by the way.

 

[CaptainBritain]

I am a ghost expert. And I haven't had any training or read any books about ghosts. I know as much about ghosts as any other human on the planet. Bring me a professor of ghosts and I'll show you what I mean.

Same with God, by the way.

Some heretic will be along in a minute claiming ghosts dont look like people in white bed sheets with eye holes cut out, we can bash there heads together.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

There can only be one answer. It all boils down to trust. It is up to your personal experiences and deductions to figure out whether or not to trust that holy book.

There are as many answers as there are words to express them.

I don't trust any holy books. Why? Well, because the Holy Spirit came to me and told me not to trust them.

I don't think it's right to argue with the Holy Spirit.

 

[sojourner]

Same with God, by the way.

Why do I doubt that?...
Oh, yeah! your religion:

Me & God

Quite telling with regard to your understanding of God, methinks.

 

[sojourner]

I don't trust any holy books.

Which is, of course, why you "understand God" so well.

Why? Well, because the Holy Spirit came to me and told me not to trust them.

The Holy Spirit inspired them to be written. Why would the Holy Spirit not want you to read them, if the Holy Spirit is so authoritative that:

I don't think it's right to argue with the Holy Spirit.

Head games.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Some heretic will be along in a minute claiming ghosts dont look like people in white bed sheets with eye holes cut out, we can bash there heads together.

I did my dissertation on those clowns.

No... really. Peering Through the Myth: Why Clowns Is Clowns and Ghosts is Ghosts. A Probability Theory, Using Higher Arithmetic.

I’d offer to send you a copy, except I put them out on the stoop last October, hoping to move a few units, and a bunch of clowns stole the whole lot.