YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes, Christ desired to have that meal with the apostles before he died. How loving on his part.
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Why So Much Trinity Bashing?
- Thread starter Rival
- Start date
walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
I understand a little, but I keep searching the scriptures until I can find agreement, if possible complete harmony trying to get God's Spirit inspired Direction and advice. Then most all the scriptures seem to make better sense.
1 Corinthians 1:10 I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought.
Romans 16:17 Now I urge you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who create divisions and causes for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them.
2 Corinthians 13:11 For the rest, brethren, rejoice; be perfected; be encouraged; be of one mind; be at peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you. --Darby Translation
Philippians 2:2 make my joy full by being of the same mind and having the same love, being completely united, having the one thought in mind.
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What helps show what claim is wrong ? You seem out of your depth .... unable to coherently comment .. What claim are you addressing ? there are often many in my posts .. and how has "IT" what ever "IT" is shown this claim was wrong ?
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
According to the biblical understanding every mere man has a physical and spiritual nature and is an image (manifestation) of God (see Genesis). But only Jesus is pre-existing with God and a kind of demiurge. Jesus also claims this (see Gospel of John).
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
Your theology is wrong, and the context is clear about why it is wrong.
Why So Much Trinity Bashing?
There are many things I don't understand, but I do not call them all irrational. Trinitarianism is irrational. Something cannot be one thing and three things at the same time. I don’t believe the doctrine of the Trinity is saying one thing can be three things at the same time. I think it’s...
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What theology is wrong ? what facts are wrong ? Do you not have a voice mate ? unable to say what you are talking about ?
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
It's already been said.
Why So Much Trinity Bashing?
There are many things I don't understand, but I do not call them all irrational. Trinitarianism is irrational. Something cannot be one thing and three things at the same time. I don’t believe the doctrine of the Trinity is saying one thing can be three things at the same time. I think it’s...
www.religiousforums.com
I think we should separate the later "ontological" theology of Trinitarianism, on the one hand (which was a case of Latin and Greek speaking Gentile theologians of the second and third centuries trying to make sense of the apostolic doctrine of Jesus's divinity), from the question of: does the New Testament affirm that Jesus is a pre-existent divine being who existed before the universe and created it, and that he should be incorporated into the worship of YHWH?
The answer to this question, as emphatically demonstrated by a consensus of scholars ranging from Hurtado to Bart Ehrman, is a decisive yes. The first generation of Christians, the apostolic generation and their successors, were Binitarians who referred to God using a triadic discourse. For them, God was a reality that included the human person of Jesus and the Spirit.
They followed in the tradition of a long line of Jewish thinkers before them who had spoken of chokhmah, Divine Wisdom, as a hypostasis of God through whom He created the universe and held to a messianic interpretation of Daniel's prophecy of one like a human being coming to rule the universe on the clouds in a divine fashion from heaven.
These binitarian Jews are frequently criticized by the Rabbis in the Talmud and it was called by them the two powers heresy (many of these Jewish sects called the angel Metatron "the Lesser YHWH"). Pharisaic Jews saw this theology as violating their avowed unitarian monotheism and understanding of the Shema. Some Qumran texts from more than a century before Christianity, such as the Melchizedek scroll and also the Enochic literature, attest to this strand of ancient Judaism from which the early Jesus movement arose.
High Christology is the earliest theology that we find in our earliest Christian texts.
It may strike modern people as uniquely weird that a group of second temple Jews regarded an itinerant 30-something carpenter from Galilee executed as a seditious criminal by the Romans as being YHWH "tabernacled among us" but that is actually what the early movement believed.
Once you accept that Jesus is divine as presented in the NT corpus and that "God" is spoken of in a triadic fashion, with reference to Father, Son and Holy Spirit even though only the Father and Son are ever given cultic worship in the texts, later articulations of Trinitarian doctrine (from early second century theologians like St. Justin Martyr, and third century ones such as Origen and Tertullian) look like very laudable attempts to explain and defend this highly novel and complicated variant of monotheism to pagan and rabbinic Jewish critics.
The answer to this question, as emphatically demonstrated by a consensus of scholars ranging from Hurtado to Bart Ehrman, is a decisive yes. The first generation of Christians, the apostolic generation and their successors, were Binitarians who referred to God using a triadic discourse. For them, God was a reality that included the human person of Jesus and the Spirit.
They followed in the tradition of a long line of Jewish thinkers before them who had spoken of chokhmah, Divine Wisdom, as a hypostasis of God through whom He created the universe and held to a messianic interpretation of Daniel's prophecy of one like a human being coming to rule the universe on the clouds in a divine fashion from heaven.
These binitarian Jews are frequently criticized by the Rabbis in the Talmud and it was called by them the two powers heresy (many of these Jewish sects called the angel Metatron "the Lesser YHWH"). Pharisaic Jews saw this theology as violating their avowed unitarian monotheism and understanding of the Shema. Some Qumran texts from more than a century before Christianity, such as the Melchizedek scroll and also the Enochic literature, attest to this strand of ancient Judaism from which the early Jesus movement arose.
High Christology is the earliest theology that we find in our earliest Christian texts.
It may strike modern people as uniquely weird that a group of second temple Jews regarded an itinerant 30-something carpenter from Galilee executed as a seditious criminal by the Romans as being YHWH "tabernacled among us" but that is actually what the early movement believed.
Once you accept that Jesus is divine as presented in the NT corpus and that "God" is spoken of in a triadic fashion, with reference to Father, Son and Holy Spirit even though only the Father and Son are ever given cultic worship in the texts, later articulations of Trinitarian doctrine (from early second century theologians like St. Justin Martyr, and third century ones such as Origen and Tertullian) look like very laudable attempts to explain and defend this highly novel and complicated variant of monotheism to pagan and rabbinic Jewish critics.
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It has not been said .. you stated my theology is wrong.. the stuff you keep posting below does not conflict with "my theology" .. which is not the topic of discussion. nor does it conflict with Trinity Theology I have been telling you
3 people .. each with their own thoughts .. each with Godlike Powers .. each being made of the God Substance .. separate freom the other God people.. in mind, will and action.
This is your Theology that I merely restated that you are claiming is wrong .. here is that theology you keep posting ... but claim is wrong ?
3 Persons .. all made of the same substance .. each a God, separate from the others in mind and action. Yet .. as we are told in the good book .. sometimes these God people conflict with each other.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
You just quoted it.
The conflict is the contradiction between the persons of the Trinity and the persons of your theology.
No, you said persons, just like the Anglican doctrine speaks of persons.
What is the difference between people and persons ? is that what you are referring to as "Wrong Theology" ? Semantics.
Two persons .. Two people = exactly the same thing in context of Trinity Doctrine and what is stated in the Bible.
Three persons = Three people .. oh .. sorry right .. these entities might not be people .... so we should be saying these three persons are three different entities .. Entities who are not human .. not made of flesh .. but made of the same stuff that God is made of .. and thus these three entities are not 3 people .. but 3 Gods .. or what ever term one uses to describe a gaggle of Gods
Thans for helping to tighten up the language .. How do these three Gods in your Trinity .. each having own thoughts - mind - actions and will .. each separate from the others. .. conflict with the three Gods of the regular Trinity Doctrine .. which you mistakenly call "My theology"
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
Persons can include artificial persons as well as natural persons. Also, persons are of no consequence within the context of the divine.
Deuteronomy 10 :: King James Version (KJV)
Deuteronomy 10 - For the LORD your God [is] God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:
stvdv
Veteran Member
In the OP the question asked, was formulated very specific "Why so much Trinity Bashing".
My answer was clear, let's not divert:
It's rude to believe "Jesus is the only Way for all"
Anyone with self respect might tell them this
IF all Christians would just agree on this
That type of bashing vanishes immediately
It's their choice to keep bashing going on
stvdv
Veteran Member
xxx
Which causes this problem in the first place
True, but not all claim "Jesus, and Jesus alone"
Which causes this problem in the first place
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I don't know of any other religion that makes such an arrogant claim.
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IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
What problem is that? If someone wants to believe in Jesus and Jesus alone, I may disagree with them, but they are within their rights.
stvdv
Veteran Member
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
They are within their rights, but they cannot expect to get no backlash when they claim that Jesus is the Only Way to God for all eternity.
Likewise, if I claimed that Baha'u'llah was the Only Way to God for all of eternity, I'd expect backlash.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Proselytizing, although annoying, is not bashing. Indeed, any free society has to allow proselytizing as part of freedom of religion.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Sure. Just like it is acceptable for them to believe in Jesus and Jesus only, it is acceptable for you to believe that's baloney.