waitasec
Veteran Member
am fully aware of that...
which the point i am making...it's entirely subjective isn't it?
i didn't.
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Why take religion so seriously?
- Thread starter lunakilo
- Start date
which the point i am making...it's entirely subjective isn't it?
i didn't.
waitasec
Veteran Member
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Not in the sense that they are the "included" who need to be mindful of the "excluded." the Samaritans were ousted from mainstream Judaism -- they knew it, and they were affected by it. history clearly places the Samaritans in the position of "the outcast."
waitasec
Veteran Member
because their beliefs died out...within the first couple of centuries AD...
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Yah, well, Judaism was very much in danger of the same thing. What we have today is a derivative of Pharisaical Judaism.
waitasec
Veteran Member
didn't paul convert from pharisaical judaism?
which makes me wonder why jesus was at odds with the pharisees in the gospels...
was it really jesus or the writers of the gospels?
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Look closer. Jesus wasn't always at odds with them. he ate with them (which one doesn't do with an enemy). In fact, I can't remember where I heard this, but I heard that one would not debate or put down someone with whom one was not "intimate." That being said, it has been put forth that Jesus may have been a Pharisee, himself, although there's no real way to prove it.
waitasec
Veteran Member
interesting...
i would say since mark and matthew being the most "jewish" gospels, i would guess is where we would find him opposing the pharisees...
and in the other two he would be found hanging out with them...
this is a just a guess...
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Nice thinking! I dunno -- I'd have to look. since I really don't have time (hanging out here in the midst of debugging my computer and writing finals) perhaps you could do that and discover if your theory is correct?interesting...
i would say since mark and matthew being the most "jewish" gospels, i would guess is where we would find him opposing the pharisees...
and in the other two he would be found hanging out with them...
this is a just a guess...
waitasec
Veteran Member
bain-druie
Tree-Hugger!
True - it appears from the NT gospels that of the main Jewish sects in that day, he would have been more in agreement with the Pharisees than the rest; i.e. the Sadducees (since according to those texts, Jesus made it pretty clear he believed in the resurrection etc) or the Essenes. It was because he agreed with Pharasaical doctrine, or so I've heard, that he came down on them so hard for hypocrisy.
sky dancer
Active Member
Why take religion so seriously? One of my Buddhist teachers said if you want to get enlightened, you have to meditate as though your hair were on fire! When you realize your hair is on fire, there’s no time to remain lost in daydreams or to react sluggishly.
Trungpa Rinpoche once talked about the quality of that moment when you’ve just stepped in dog ****. There can be no question about it, no ambiguity. That moment is sharp and vivid and precise, and cuts through everything else. Every moment has that quality, if we are awake to it.
Trungpa Rinpoche once talked about the quality of that moment when you’ve just stepped in dog ****. There can be no question about it, no ambiguity. That moment is sharp and vivid and precise, and cuts through everything else. Every moment has that quality, if we are awake to it.
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... or to meditate, IMO.
abdallah soudi
New Member
i realized several points in ur words ...let s start from the begening ...do we need to know if god do exist or no?....i feel that the answer is:sure
existence of god sure makes difference at all fields...
on condition God do exist and we ignore that fact pretending to be happy seeing our children happy or just living the moment is nonsense
even insane pepole feel happy ... being unaware of circumstancing cnditions....but we who know what goes on feel sad for them..
so on condition God is present ....it really makes different
the other point ...do we need God really??
i beleive the answer again is sure....
we have to know the meaning of our lives...who created us?? why??..what should we do??...after death ..what will go on??
can any man answer these questions???,.... they hardly answer how!!!!
man s soul is created naturally in a need of a super power to go for...not just to go for in periods of saddness or depression ...but also in periods of happiness !!!! it s a life !!!...we live every moment with god...
if we devoted ouselves to God..all people will be equal!!!...no difference between high people and low...we all ask God...
we will be guided to faith ...love ..peace ...all what carries happiness in its meaning because it s not a law put by another man who dont know everything or emotionallyu guided or have reasons to put laws...
so we need God...we need to know God really exixt or no...but that dosnt mean taking it seriously as u mean....it means taking it seriously as God means!!!....and u l feel it easy ....not that kind of hardening!!!
people acts are that makes u got the issue wrong....if u want to know the truth ...u should search for it...dont satisfy watching people...go deep!!...if u want to judge any country law...there is 2 methods ...either see what its people do...or sometimes it s better to look at law material...unfortunately...some who pretend to be relegious ...dont work with what religion says ....
if i were a coatch and all of u are players...and i ordered u to run this way just straight ..no turning right or left..is it my fault if most people didnt take it straight??!!!
just go deep if u want to know..
existence of god sure makes difference at all fields...
on condition God do exist and we ignore that fact pretending to be happy seeing our children happy or just living the moment is nonsense
even insane pepole feel happy ... being unaware of circumstancing cnditions....but we who know what goes on feel sad for them..
so on condition God is present ....it really makes different
the other point ...do we need God really??
i beleive the answer again is sure....
we have to know the meaning of our lives...who created us?? why??..what should we do??...after death ..what will go on??
can any man answer these questions???,.... they hardly answer how!!!!
man s soul is created naturally in a need of a super power to go for...not just to go for in periods of saddness or depression ...but also in periods of happiness !!!! it s a life !!!...we live every moment with god...
if we devoted ouselves to God..all people will be equal!!!...no difference between high people and low...we all ask God...
we will be guided to faith ...love ..peace ...all what carries happiness in its meaning because it s not a law put by another man who dont know everything or emotionallyu guided or have reasons to put laws...
so we need God...we need to know God really exixt or no...but that dosnt mean taking it seriously as u mean....it means taking it seriously as God means!!!....and u l feel it easy ....not that kind of hardening!!!
people acts are that makes u got the issue wrong....if u want to know the truth ...u should search for it...dont satisfy watching people...go deep!!...if u want to judge any country law...there is 2 methods ...either see what its people do...or sometimes it s better to look at law material...unfortunately...some who pretend to be relegious ...dont work with what religion says ....
if i were a coatch and all of u are players...and i ordered u to run this way just straight ..no turning right or left..is it my fault if most people didnt take it straight??!!!
just go deep if u want to know..
Wombat
Active Member
On taking religion too seriously...
There are a couple of versions of this story...the first one I read had the monk deliberately abandon his practice and deliberately seek bobo (sex) and become enlightened thereafter.
I dont think it matters if the stories are literally true...there is a truth within them about giving up.
The Bobo-roshi
Han-san relates the following story [note: In Japanese, "bobo" is apparently a word for intercourse, and of course "roshi" means master]:
Bobo-roshi is a Zen master, but different. If you like I'll tell you what I know, but I don't know if it's all true; I only know about him by hearsay and I have only met him once. He seems to be an ordinary man but he laughs a lot and he has a very deep voice and he dresses strangely. He never wears the Zen robes but usually dresses in a simple kimono, like artists do, and sometimes he wears western clothes, jeans and a jersey, like you do. They say he has spent years in a Zen monastery, in the southern part of Kyoto. It's a severe monastery, the rules are applied very strictly, more strictly than here. For instance, I believe they get up at 2 a.m. every day. He is supposed to have been a very diligent monk, rather overdoing things even, making extra rules for himself and all that. But he didn't understand his koan and the master was hard on him; whenever he wanted to say something the master would pick up his bell and ring him out of the room. He was treated that way for years on end. He was doing extra meditation, sleeping in the lotus position, trying everything he could think of, but the koan remained as mysterious as ever. I don't know how long this situation lasted, six years, ten years maybe, but then he had enough. I don't think he even said goodbye, he just left, in ordinary clothes, with a little money he had saved, or which had been sent to him from home.
Now you must realize that he had been a monk a long time and didn't know anything about civilian life. He had never climbed the wall at night [i.e. sneaked out of the monastery as many did for less, umm, spiritual pursuits]. He was a real monk, sober, quiet, always in command of himself. And there he was, in a sunny street, in a busy city, thousands of people all about, all doing something, all going somewhere. He wandered about the city and found himself in the willow quarter, perhaps within an hour of leaving the monastery gate. In the willow quarter there are always women standing in their doors, or pretending to be busy in their gardens. One of the women called him, but he was so innocent that he didn't know what she wanted. He went to her and asked politely what he could do for her. She took him by the hand and led him into her little house. They say she was beautiful; who knows? Some of these women aren't beautiful at all but they are attractive in a way, or they wouldn't have any earnings.
She helped him undress - he must have understood then what was going on. She must have asked him for money and he must have given it to her. Then she took him to her bath, that's the custom here. Your shoulders are massaged and you are dried with a clean towel and they talk to you. Slowly you become very excited and when she feels you are ready she takes you to the bedroom. He must have been very excited after so many years of abstaining. At the moment he went into her he solved his koan. He had an enormous satori, one of those rare satoris which are described in our books, not a little understanding which can be deepened later but the lot at once, an explosion which tears you to pieces and you think the world has come to an end, that you can fill the emptiness of the universe in every possible sphere. When he left the woman he was a master. from The Empty Mirror, by Janwillem van de Wettering, 1972
Enlightenment Stories of satori, samadhi from the Zen tradition
There are a couple of versions of this story...the first one I read had the monk deliberately abandon his practice and deliberately seek bobo (sex) and become enlightened thereafter.
I dont think it matters if the stories are literally true...there is a truth within them about giving up.
The Bobo-roshi
Han-san relates the following story [note: In Japanese, "bobo" is apparently a word for intercourse, and of course "roshi" means master]:
Bobo-roshi is a Zen master, but different. If you like I'll tell you what I know, but I don't know if it's all true; I only know about him by hearsay and I have only met him once. He seems to be an ordinary man but he laughs a lot and he has a very deep voice and he dresses strangely. He never wears the Zen robes but usually dresses in a simple kimono, like artists do, and sometimes he wears western clothes, jeans and a jersey, like you do. They say he has spent years in a Zen monastery, in the southern part of Kyoto. It's a severe monastery, the rules are applied very strictly, more strictly than here. For instance, I believe they get up at 2 a.m. every day. He is supposed to have been a very diligent monk, rather overdoing things even, making extra rules for himself and all that. But he didn't understand his koan and the master was hard on him; whenever he wanted to say something the master would pick up his bell and ring him out of the room. He was treated that way for years on end. He was doing extra meditation, sleeping in the lotus position, trying everything he could think of, but the koan remained as mysterious as ever. I don't know how long this situation lasted, six years, ten years maybe, but then he had enough. I don't think he even said goodbye, he just left, in ordinary clothes, with a little money he had saved, or which had been sent to him from home.
Now you must realize that he had been a monk a long time and didn't know anything about civilian life. He had never climbed the wall at night [i.e. sneaked out of the monastery as many did for less, umm, spiritual pursuits]. He was a real monk, sober, quiet, always in command of himself. And there he was, in a sunny street, in a busy city, thousands of people all about, all doing something, all going somewhere. He wandered about the city and found himself in the willow quarter, perhaps within an hour of leaving the monastery gate. In the willow quarter there are always women standing in their doors, or pretending to be busy in their gardens. One of the women called him, but he was so innocent that he didn't know what she wanted. He went to her and asked politely what he could do for her. She took him by the hand and led him into her little house. They say she was beautiful; who knows? Some of these women aren't beautiful at all but they are attractive in a way, or they wouldn't have any earnings.
She helped him undress - he must have understood then what was going on. She must have asked him for money and he must have given it to her. Then she took him to her bath, that's the custom here. Your shoulders are massaged and you are dried with a clean towel and they talk to you. Slowly you become very excited and when she feels you are ready she takes you to the bedroom. He must have been very excited after so many years of abstaining. At the moment he went into her he solved his koan. He had an enormous satori, one of those rare satoris which are described in our books, not a little understanding which can be deepened later but the lot at once, an explosion which tears you to pieces and you think the world has come to an end, that you can fill the emptiness of the universe in every possible sphere. When he left the woman he was a master. from The Empty Mirror, by Janwillem van de Wettering, 1972
Enlightenment Stories of satori, samadhi from the Zen tradition
Wombat
Active Member
Oh!......and I heard a story yesterday about an art teacher who observed a usually distracted six year old ADHD student drawing with great concentration.
The teacher approached and asked “What are you drawing”?
The student replied “I’m drawing God”
The teacher advised “But darling....Nobody knows what God looks like”
“They will in a minute” said the child.
The teacher approached and asked “What are you drawing”?
The student replied “I’m drawing God”
The teacher advised “But darling....Nobody knows what God looks like”
“They will in a minute” said the child.
tarekabdo12
Active Member
Taking religion seriously doesn't mean we fight because of having different religious beliefs. However, everybody has the right to choose his belief and way 2 live and this is asserted by the Qur'an in Islam. Nobody should prevent anybody from practicing his freedom in choices however we can talk together and exchange ideas.
However, religion is a basic thing in our whole lives. According to what u think and believe in ur life, you act and perform. Ideas guide actions. Since religion is the most important and basic idea that guides your whole view to the whole life, it must be regarded as vital and taken very seriously. People differ in their religious beliefs like they differ in all other ideas, Religion's not an exception. It's the design of God's creation that people will differ perpetually. You can see that those who love a certain team may enter in a fight with other teams' lovers s it's the human nature despite the fact that football teams aren't so important i human life. So the problem isn't in religion but in the people who carry these different beliefs. Those who can't consider the fact of variation are greatly biased and stressed by their own ideas. They insist that they r right and refuse to consider other notions which may be better and more rational.
However, religion is a basic thing in our whole lives. According to what u think and believe in ur life, you act and perform. Ideas guide actions. Since religion is the most important and basic idea that guides your whole view to the whole life, it must be regarded as vital and taken very seriously. People differ in their religious beliefs like they differ in all other ideas, Religion's not an exception. It's the design of God's creation that people will differ perpetually. You can see that those who love a certain team may enter in a fight with other teams' lovers s it's the human nature despite the fact that football teams aren't so important i human life. So the problem isn't in religion but in the people who carry these different beliefs. Those who can't consider the fact of variation are greatly biased and stressed by their own ideas. They insist that they r right and refuse to consider other notions which may be better and more rational.