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Why The Christian's Laughter Is Full Of Pain

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
Glas:

Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself. Is there a personal reason why you feel it is important that people agree with you about Christianity? Why the intensity of feeling about Christianity in particular?

Do you persoanlly have any sense of spiritual experience? If so, would you mind telling us about it?
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
doppelgänger said:
Glas:

Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself. Is there a personal reason why you feel it is important that people agree with you about Christianity? Why the intensity of feeling about Christianity in particular?

Do you persoanlly have any sense of spiritual experience? If so, would you mind telling us about it?
Some very astute questions, as usual, Dopp. :clap
 
Glaswegian said:
When you hear the laughter of some Christians do you ever wonder why there is so much pain in it? Why it often has the effect of causing tiny alarm bells to start ringing inside of you? Why it can make you solemn and reflective in the way that a great tragedy does? Why you feel a little saddened in its aftermath? Perhaps on witnessing this kind of laughter issuing from the Christian's mouth you have been so shocked by it that you have turned away from him, lowered your head and whispered to yourself: 'My God. The pain in that laughter! Doesn't he realise how awful it sounds?'

No reasonable person would blame you for wondering how the Christian can be blind to the pain in his own laughter given that the pain which fills it is so stark in nature, so blatant and unmistakable, so flagrant as to be nakedly obvious. This is why even though one finds the Christian's laughter excruciating one cannot help but be intrigued by it at the same time. This laughter is so anguished in tone, so forced in its delivery, so hysterical in its outburst that one involuntarily shrinks from it as if from an exploding boil. One feels acutely embarrassed for the Christian on hearing his pained and desperate laughter. Indeed, one is even moved at times to pity him because of it. That said, the pain in the Christian's laughter is so uniquely awful that it demands an explanation.

The reason why the pain in the Christian's laughter creates such a strong impression on rational individuals, and makes them prick up their ears whenever they hear it, is because it reveals more about the Christian's inner being in an instant than a very large book could ever do. What this laughter reveals about the Christian in such an immediate and striking way is that he is an individual who suffers greatly from himself: more precisely, that he is someone to whom something terrible has been done, something shameful, and that the person who has done this terrible and shameful thing to him is none other than himself. How do we know this? Because the Christian's laughter is a laughter which resonates with deep and unrelenting guilt. It is the tortured laughter born of an individual who cannot live with himself, an individual who recognises at some level of his being that he is disgraceful and contemptible, an object to be despised. This is why on hearing it the man of finer feelings and good taste immediately averts his eyes from its source.

The terrible and shameful thing which the Christian has done to himself inwardly, and which fills his laughter with so much pain, is that he has murdered his freedom and integrity for the sake of his religion. The Christian is only too willing to perform this deplorable act of self-sabotage because he is a weakling who is terrified of assuming responsibility and control over his own life and decisions. Rather than determining for himself what kind of person he will become and how he will live, he pretends that a 'Divine Being' exists external to himself so that he can abandon himself to its will and authority. Thus, instead of taking charge of his own existence, instead of being the author of his own destiny, the Christian chooses to adopt an infantile orientation to life by clinging abjectly to his religion, by clinging to a childish delusion, by clinging to the apron strings of 'God'. As a consequence of choosing to be un-free and inauthentic in this way, by choosing to remain locked in a state of permanent infancy, the Christian allows his own existential possibilities to wither and die: so much so, that long before his body expires he becomes something false and vacuous, a shell of a man, a desiccated nonentity, the ghost of what might have been.

The pain in the Christian's laughter, then, should be understood as summarising all the anguish and guilt he feels at having betrayed himself, all the hurt and rage he feels at having neglected and disowned his true potentialities and goals, all his secret shame at having made a travesty of his life. His pained laughter announces to the whole world in a direct and emphatic way that he is a cowardly wretch who dreads his own freedom, that he is unnerved by the innumerable possibilities of existence, that he is so afraid of thinking and acting for himself that he is willing to forgo the possibility of his own self-creation.

Given that what the Christian thinks, says and does are done in almost total compliance and conformity with the directives of a fantasised power which lies outside himself (viz. 'God') this means that he is not really in his 'own' thoughts, not really in his 'own' words, not really in his 'own' actions. This accounts for why he is prey to recurring feelings of emptiness, depersonalization and unreality - and the horrible suspicion that he is merely going through the motions of being alive. The Christian is necessarily divorced from his whole inner life and experience because what he thinks, says and does are informed by, or are done in accordance with, a 'Divine Power' which is perceived as other than himself. The Christian, in effect, exists only in absentia for he is a person who has absconded from himself. His self-being is really a form of death-in-life.

Having considered the above it is hardly surprising, then, that the pain in the Christian's laughter leaves the rational person who has the misfortune to hear it somewhat depressed. For it signifies a human tragedy - the tragedy of an individual who, out of weakness and fear, has failed to achieve an authentic mode of being, who has never grown up, and who has wantonly sacrificed two of the most precious things a human being can possess: viz. his own freedom and integrity.

Regards

James
It's sad that you've never experienced true Christian joy, including genuine laughter. Unfortunately Christian's tend to miss out on the blessings of their own faith when the self gets in the way.

"Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit." Romans 15:13
 
doppelgänger said:
Glas:

Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself.

No, doppelganger. That would only distract you from my posts. It is important that you approach my posts in the most objective fashion possible. If I told you about myself - even 'a little bit' - then that would get in the way of what you make of my posts. The fact that you know I am a Glasgow male is - shall we say? - contaminating enough. ;)

doppelganger said:
Is there a personal reason why you feel it is important that people agree with you about Christianity?

What makes you think I feel it is important that people agree with me about Christianity?

doppelganger said:
Why the intensity of feeling about Christianity in particular?

I think intensity of feeling is better than feeling that is lacklustre, don't you? What you call my 'intensity of feeling about Christianity' holds for monotheistic religions in general (and all other forms of supernaturalism).

doppelganger said:
Do you persoanlly have any sense of spiritual experience? If so, would you mind telling us about it?

What do you mean by 'spiritual experience'?
 

astarath

Well-Known Member
Doppelganger I am confused as to why anyone is forced to explain themselves to you.
That is not the point of this thread and as such should be discussed elsewhere if at all.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
astarath said:
Doppelganger I am confused as to why anyone is forced to explain themselves to you.
That is not the point of this thread and as such should be discussed elsewhere if at all.
I think it was more of an invitation than a demand.

Dopp is attempting to engage in less antagonistic conversation. Perhaps it is "off-topic" but it is sure to be more constructive than the "on-topic" debate.


Astarath, In this case I was able to guess which post you were refering to. But I've noticed at other times that I don't know whom you are responding to. And others might not either. It would help greatly if you used the "quote" function on the lower right-hand corner of the post to which you are responding. Just a request, not a demand. ;)
 

Ozzie

Well-Known Member
Glaswegian said:
When you hear the laughter of some Christians do you ever wonder why there is so much pain in it? Why it often has the effect of causing tiny alarm bells to start ringing inside of you? Why it can make you solemn and reflective in the way that a great tragedy does? Why you feel a little saddened in its aftermath? Perhaps on witnessing this kind of laughter issuing from the Christian's mouth you have been so shocked by it that you have turned away from him, lowered your head and whispered to yourself: 'My God. The pain in that laughter! Doesn't he realise how awful it sounds?'

No reasonable person would blame you for wondering how the Christian can be blind to the pain in his own laughter given that the pain which fills it is so stark in nature, so blatant and unmistakable, so flagrant as to be nakedly obvious. This is why even though one finds the Christian's laughter excruciating one cannot help but be intrigued by it at the same time. This laughter is so anguished in tone, so forced in its delivery, so hysterical in its outburst that one involuntarily shrinks from it as if from an exploding boil. One feels acutely embarrassed for the Christian on hearing his pained and desperate laughter. Indeed, one is even moved at times to pity him because of it. That said, the pain in the Christian's laughter is so uniquely awful that it demands an explanation.

The reason why the pain in the Christian's laughter creates such a strong impression on rational individuals, and makes them prick up their ears whenever they hear it, is because it reveals more about the Christian's inner being in an instant than a very large book could ever do. What this laughter reveals about the Christian in such an immediate and striking way is that he is an individual who suffers greatly from himself: more precisely, that he is someone to whom something terrible has been done, something shameful, and that the person who has done this terrible and shameful thing to him is none other than himself. How do we know this? Because the Christian's laughter is a laughter which resonates with deep and unrelenting guilt. It is the tortured laughter born of an individual who cannot live with himself, an individual who recognises at some level of his being that he is disgraceful and contemptible, an object to be despised. This is why on hearing it the man of finer feelings and good taste immediately averts his eyes from its source.

The terrible and shameful thing which the Christian has done to himself inwardly, and which fills his laughter with so much pain, is that he has murdered his freedom and integrity for the sake of his religion. The Christian is only too willing to perform this deplorable act of self-sabotage because he is a weakling who is terrified of assuming responsibility and control over his own life and decisions. Rather than determining for himself what kind of person he will become and how he will live, he pretends that a 'Divine Being' exists external to himself so that he can abandon himself to its will and authority. Thus, instead of taking charge of his own existence, instead of being the author of his own destiny, the Christian chooses to adopt an infantile orientation to life by clinging abjectly to his religion, by clinging to a childish delusion, by clinging to the apron strings of 'God'. As a consequence of choosing to be un-free and inauthentic in this way, by choosing to remain locked in a state of permanent infancy, the Christian allows his own existential possibilities to wither and die: so much so, that long before his body expires he becomes something false and vacuous, a shell of a man, a desiccated nonentity, the ghost of what might have been.

The pain in the Christian's laughter, then, should be understood as summarising all the anguish and guilt he feels at having betrayed himself, all the hurt and rage he feels at having neglected and disowned his true potentialities and goals, all his secret shame at having made a travesty of his life. His pained laughter announces to the whole world in a direct and emphatic way that he is a cowardly wretch who dreads his own freedom, that he is unnerved by the innumerable possibilities of existence, that he is so afraid of thinking and acting for himself that he is willing to forgo the possibility of his own self-creation.

Given that what the Christian thinks, says and does are done in almost total compliance and conformity with the directives of a fantasised power which lies outside himself (viz. 'God') this means that he is not really in his 'own' thoughts, not really in his 'own' words, not really in his 'own' actions. This accounts for why he is prey to recurring feelings of emptiness, depersonalization and unreality - and the horrible suspicion that he is merely going through the motions of being alive. The Christian is necessarily divorced from his whole inner life and experience because what he thinks, says and does are informed by, or are done in accordance with, a 'Divine Power' which is perceived as other than himself. The Christian, in effect, exists only in absentia for he is a person who has absconded from himself. His self-being is really a form of death-in-life.

Having considered the above it is hardly surprising, then, that the pain in the Christian's laughter leaves the rational person who has the misfortune to hear it somewhat depressed. For it signifies a human tragedy - the tragedy of an individual who, out of weakness and fear, has failed to achieve an authentic mode of being, who has never grown up, and who has wantonly sacrificed two of the most precious things a human being can possess: viz. his own freedom and integrity.

Regards

James
You need to examine your belief about what rationality is. It is significant that Christian belief rings alarm bells in you. Given you find the Christian thesis so throughly unconvincing, can you imagine someone having similarly throughly convincing convictions of a Creator? If not, you are a prisoner of your own rationality, rather than someone who can claim to be free.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Pain is endemic to the human condition. It is not reserved solely for Christians. Your jumping to conclusions is obstructive to healing. Jesus taught us to love each other. Maybe Christianity isn't so bad as you have presented it here.
 
Ozzie said:
You need to examine your belief about what rationality is.

I'm quite aware of what rationality is, Ozzie. And that is why I know that Christian belief has nothing to do with rationality. Christian belief is wholly irrational in nature.

Allow me to re-state something I said to another member of this forum. Viz...

"I'm sure you would agree that debate should proceed on the basis of rational argument. Yes? But this is precisely why debating with religious believers is always problematic. You see, religious believers haven't reasoned themselves into their beliefs. Religious beliefs are not based on reason. They are based on emotions, feelings, sentiments, needs, wishes, yearnings, longings, etc.. Trying to reason with these things is like trying to reason with toothache or hunger or sexual desire. Such things are not amenable to reason."

Are you a scientist by any chance, Ozzie?
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
Glaswegian said:
No, doppelganger. That would only distract you from my posts. It is important that you approach my posts in the most objective fashion possible. If I told you about myself - even 'a little bit' - then that would get in the way of what you make of my posts. The fact that you know I am a Glasgow male is - shall we say? - contaminating enough. ;)

Perspective is the underlying problem in any breakdown in communication. Words don't now have and never have had objective meanings. So perspective is everything. Aside from that, I can't imagine how you could engage in a dialogue with anyone, which of course, defeats the purpose in communicating in the first place doesn't it?



Glaswegian said:
What makes you think I feel it is important that people agree with me about Christianity?

Um . .. this perhaps? . . . "That would only distract you from my posts. It is important that you approach my posts in the most objective fashion possible."

:rolleyes:



Glaswegian said:
I think intensity of feeling is better than feeling that is lacklustre, don't you? What you call my 'intensity of feeling about Christianity' holds for monotheistic religions in general (and all other forms of supernaturalism).

It depends on the feeling. Thanks for answering the question, though. So you are okay with polytheistic religions?

Glaswegian said:
What do you mean by 'spiritual experience'?

Define it however you'd like. I'll go with your definition. :)
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
astarath said:
Doppelganger I am confused as to why anyone is forced to explain themselves to you.

"Forced"? How? He can choose not to answer the questions if he wants to. In fact, he did choose not to answer most of them. And I can ask them again if I want to. And there's nothing you can do about it . . . bwahahahaha. :p

astarath said:
That is not the point of this thread and as such should be discussed elsewhere if at all.

Why is anyone forced to agree with you about what the "point of this thread" is, if any? For the likes of me, I can't figure out the point of this thread, since I didn't start it. That's why I'm trying to initiate a dialogue to get some understanding of the poster's "point."
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Sunstone said:
The OP sounds like bunk to me. Poetic. But irrational and based on a false premiss.

It does resonate with me...........:sorry1:
 
Hi, sojourner.

Long time no see. :)

sojourner said:
Maybe Christianity isn't so bad as you have presented it here.

Try telling that to all the Jews who were burned alive in its name during the Spanish Inquisition.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Glaswegian said:
Hi, sojourner.

Long time no see. :)



Try telling that to all the Jews who were burned alive in its name during the Spanish Inquisition.
Using that logic, we could say that "the Jews killed our Messiah," too. So what? That kind of mudslinging is absurd! None of it devalues either Christianity or Judaism as legitimate and truthful pathways to the Divine.

Obviously, you have some kind of chip on your shoulder where Christianity is concerned. I'm sorry for that, but my compassion does not dictate that I accept the attribution of your pain to my religion. Christianity, regardless of your personal opinion, is an honorable and true religion. It teaches love, compassion, hospitality, life, forbearance, mercy. I can't help it if you aren't able to find good in that.
 

pete29

Member
Glaswegian said:
Hi, sojourner.

Long time no see. :)



Try telling that to all the Jews who were burned alive in its name during the Spanish Inquisition.
atheists have killed more people in the last hundred years than christians have in two thousand. also its unfair to blame all christians for the spanish inquisition since it was members of my denomination the Catholics that were responsible for it. every religion including atheism, which at least i consider a religion, has its times in history that its not proud of. in defense let me point out how many christians died in ww2 saving Jews. :D
 
Glaswegian said:
Hi, sojourner.

Long time no see. :)



Try telling that to all the Jews who were burned alive in its name during the Spanish Inquisition.
Try telling it to all the Christians who were eaten alive by lions while pagans cheered in the stands.
 

Gentoo

The Feisty Penguin
Does it really matter who killed who, when and why? What's done in the past is done and in the past. Let's move on.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
[FONT=&quot]yes, lets move on, remove Pharisee (John, Paul, Simon) texts and it makes a much clearer picture without Balaam teachings (to say God would need to sacrifice...)[/FONT]
 
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