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Why the double standard?

RestlessSoul

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
Again, I disagree. We won WW2 and it absolutely ended. Nazi Germany and Imperialist Japan didn't exist anymore, and haven't plagued the world since.

You're logic is along the lines of "Well, if I take an antibiotic for this infection, what good will it do, since I'll probably get another infection some time in the future?"
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I think it’s more in the nature of, “Well these steroids have done a great job of masking the symptoms”, and meanwhile the cancer is still growing.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
RestlessSoul said:
I think it’s more in the nature of, “Well these steroids have done a great job of masking the symptoms”, and meanwhile the cancer is still growing.
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If you see no difference between an ally (the USSR in WWII) and an opponent (the USSR in the Cold War), playing team sports with you must be... interesting.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
Oh baloney. Maybe you don't know what the word collateral damage means. It means that civilians are NOT the target.
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The problem is intentional "collateral" damage (ie, murder) of Palestinians.
Israel openly admitted prioritizing destruction over accuracy. And soldiers
killed Israeli hostages with a white flag & no guns. Why? They were
mistaken for Palestinian civilians.
It also strains credibility that Hamas would continue locating underground
command centers under schools & hospitals, when Israel bombs every
school & hospital in sight. The goal appears to be disabling medical
care & teaching, thereby driving the population out of the area.
Many in Israel speak of replacing the Muslims with Jews.
Thus, Israel is committing genocide under the 1948 definition.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
RestlessSoul said:
War is not a sport, and there is no imperative to always pick a side. Doing so is a means of justifying the unjustifiable.
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Sounds like you missed my point. I didn't say anything about justification.

You said that WWI, WWII, and the Cold War were all the same war. I'm pointing out that you seem to not understand the difference between fighting ON THE SIDE OF the Russians and fighting AGAINST the Russians.

... though at the same time, I'm coming to the realization that trying to educate you in what you seem bound and determined to remain wilfully ignorant of is probably a waste of my time.
 
RestlessSoul

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
Sounds like you missed my point. I didn't say anything about justification.

You said that WWI, WWII, and the Cold War were all the same war. I'm pointing out that you seem to not understand the difference between fighting ON THE SIDE OF the Russians and fighting AGAINST the Russians.

... though at the same time, I'm coming to the realization that trying to educate you in what you seem bound and determined to remain wilfully ignorant of is probably a waste of my time.
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Yes, your efforts to use this forum to educate those with a different perspective than you, do seem wasted. Probably not for the reasons you assume though.

A case can be made btw, for the war in Ukraine and Crimea having it’s roots in the Trojan Wars. The latter being fought for control of the Hellespont, and thereby access to from the Black sea to the Mediterranean, the former for control of the Black Sea port of Sevastopol. But that’s not really my point. Which is, that each conflict contains in the supposed victory of the winner, the seeds of the next; and therefore no one really wins and the wars never really stop.
 
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IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
RestlessSoul said:
I think it’s more in the nature of, “Well these steroids have done a great job of masking the symptoms”, and meanwhile the cancer is still growing.
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Your analogy is simply not appropriate. As I said, the Ally victory in WW2 did the world an enormous service. Your life is better today because that war was fought and won. Please consider trading your disapprobation for a little gratitude.
 
RestlessSoul

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
Your analogy is simply not appropriate. As I said, the Ally victory in WW2 did the world an enormous service. Your life is better today because that war was fought and won. Please consider trading your disapprobation for a little gratitude.
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Please at least consider the point being made, before returning to your entrenched position. Try taking a broader historical perspective.

No WWI and no treaty of Versailles, means no conditions for the Nazis to flourish, therefore no Hitler and no WWII.
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
RestlessSoul said:
Please at least consider the point being made, before returning to your entrenched position. Try taking a broader historical perspective.

No WWI and no treaty of Versailles, means no conditions for the Nazis to flourish, therefore no Hitler and no WWII.
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The fact that the results of WW1 laid the foundation for the rise of Hitler does not in any way shape size or form mean that what I said about WW2 is not true.

I still remember my high school world history teacher telling us that WW1 is the case for Pacifism, but WW2 is the case for Just War Theory.

Also, another critically important difference between the victory of WW1 and the victory of WW2 is that WW1 crippled those losers (as you note above), whereas after WW2, we helped to rebuild West Germany and Japan. They are among our greatest allies now. But, before they could be built up, they had to be torn down to the foundation.
 
RestlessSoul

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
The fact that the results of WW1 laid the foundation for the rise of Hitler does not in any way shape size or form mean that what I said about WW2 is not true.

I still remember my high school world history teacher telling us that WW1 is the case for Pacifism, but WW2 is the case for Just War Theory.
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Yes, that was probably my own view for most of my life. I certainly understand that perspective, which is partly cultural. The shadow of WWII still hangs over Europe now, and it certainly did when I was born in 1961. My mother was traumatised by her childhood in the Blitz, one of millions of childhoods blighted by that war. She has never really recovered emotionally.

But all that just reinforces my point here - we are in danger of sleepwalking into WWIII precisely because we haven’t emerged from the shadows or WWII. And here’s a thing; if my mother was traumatised by the Luftwaffe bombing London, still bears the scars today, and had passed some of that trauma onto her children, how much generational trauma is being stored up now, in Gaza, in Ukraine, inside Israel (where there’s already so much trauma)?
That, imo, is why the erroneous distinction of just war/unjust war, has to be ditched. There are no just wars because there is no justice on the battlefield; and the heroes are seldom those who bear arms.
 
TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Tony B said:
Wikipedia as a source? give me a break.

Well the size of the movement was never determined because of the speed at which the coup happened, like all such coup's. I'm sure some Ukrainians bought the US and EU propaganda, but I'm also sure that many Ukrainians have been press ganged into service, because I've met quite few of them now, in my country and in Europe, and the last place they want to be is Ukraine, despite the propaganda you're being fed. They are being belt fed into the slaughterhouse whilst Western leaders cheer them on and take the opportunity to get rid of old military equipment and replace it with shiny new stuff. The Western military industrial complex, as always, is having a ball. But never mind, US corporations are waiting in the wings to feed on the Ukrainian corpse once they run out of bodies to feed into the mincer.
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It's like talking to a Russian state TV channel.
 
Yerda

Yerda

Veteran Member
Tony B said:
As far as rebuttals go, that's not really much of an argument is it.
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You appear to be living in an alternate reality where Russia didn't invade an annex the Crimean peninsula, then proceed to a full scale invasion of the Ukraine - a soveriegn country. I don't see what benefit I can derive from arguing with that. Hence, go boil your head.
 
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