Why the double standard?

[ImmortalFlame]

What about arming a country who voted against joining NATO over and over again?

Why should that be a factor in whether or not arming them against a foreign invasion is the right thing to do? Especially when joining NATO was very much being considered by the most recent government?

What about arming a country with a big Nazi presence?

By "a big Nazi presence" you mean "some Nazis who operate in militias". They'd just elected a Jewish president.

What about arming a country with a recent comedian as president?

Again, what does that matter? People who live in a country whose leader is a former TV personality don't deserve protection against invasions from foreign states?

Guess America's screwed, then.

And no, we are not allies with Ukraine. We are friendly and supportive but Ukraine is not a member of the EU or NATO, voluntarily.

They still have positive diplomatic ties established in 1991. And, frankly, I don't care about official BS. I care about protecting people from invasion.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Clearly you're not familiar with the CIA

Noooo, I've never heard of them.

and the false flag ops they and NATO love to operate (See Operation Gladio for details).

GASP! The US were involved in clandestine and underhanded political operations in and around Europe following the cold war?? Well, blow me down. Whoever would have thunk it??

You should be ashamed for such a cosmic level of naivety...qui bono...

I notice a distinct lack of any actual evidence of any US involvement in Maidan and just a lot of whataboutism. Got any actual evidence of the actual claims I have actually contested, or are you going to continue to insult the dead Ukrainian protesters?

 

[Tony B]

How did I prove you right?

Wikipedia as a source? give me a break.

Yeah, ok, that little insignificant reference regarding the size of the movement not mentioning the studies talked about "proves" the unevidenced Russian propaganda about the entire thing being staged by the US who somehow managed to mobilize millions of Ukrainians to protest and face government brutality which killed a bunch of them. Sure.

Well the size of the movement was never determined because of the speed at which the coup happened, like all such coup's. I'm sure some Ukrainians bought the US and EU propaganda, but I'm also sure that many Ukrainians have been press ganged into service, because I've met quite few of them now, in my country and in Europe, and the last place they want to be is Ukraine, despite the propaganda you're being fed. They are being belt fed into the slaughterhouse whilst Western leaders cheer them on and take the opportunity to get rid of old military equipment and replace it with shiny new stuff. The Western military industrial complex, as always, is having a ball. But never mind, US corporations are waiting in the wings to feed on the Ukrainian corpse once they run out of bodies to feed into the mincer.

 

[Tony B]

Noooo, I've never heard of them.


GASP! The US were involved in clandestine and underhanded political operations in and around Europe following the cold war?? Well, blow me down. Whoever would have thunk it??

Apparently you.

I notice a distinct lack of any actual evidence of any US involvement in Maidan and just a lot of whataboutism. Got any actual evidence of the actual claims I have actually contested, or are you going to continue to insult the dead Ukrainian protesters?

I already gave everyone a huge clue, Madeleine Albright recorded celebrating the US 'getting their man in' straight after the coup, I guess you think that was just a coincidence right?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Apparently you.

Believe it or not, I am fully aware of America's history of meddling with - and outright overturning - democracies around the world, its horrible exploitation and mishandling of the third world and eastern Europe, and the negative impact of American hegemony.

Also believe it or not, just because this is all true doesn't mean that America are 100% the villains in 100% of all global events.

I already gave everyone a huge clue, Madeleine Albright recorded celebrating the US 'getting their man in' straight after the coup, I guess you think that was just a coincidence right?

Ah yes, that "clue". A statement. On a phone call. That was very vague.

The only possible explanation can be that millions of Ukrainians are all part of a sadistic, US plot to oust a very unpopular leader, get shot in their hundreds, and then (GASP) restore the exact same democratic principles and structures that existed prior to the revolution with new leaders in place.

Do you also believe the earth is flat?

Oh, and it wasn't a coup. Stop spreading lies and insulting the dead.

 

[Tony B]

Believe it or not, I am fully aware of America's history of meddling with - and outright overturning - democracies around the world, its horrible exploitation and mishandling of the third world and eastern Europe, and the negative impact of American hegemony.

Also believe it or not, just because this is all true doesn't mean that America are 100% the villains in 100% of all global events.

They don't have to be, but they're certainly well ahead of everyone else when it comes to geopolitical disasters across the planet.

Ah yes, that "clue". A statement. On a phone call. That was very vague.

Vague? seriously? coming from the woman who was not the lightest bit bothered about the half a million Iraqi civilians slaughtered on a lie....

The only possible explanation can be that millions of Ukrainians are all part of a sadistic, US plot to oust a very unpopular leader, get shot in their hundreds, and then (GASP) restore the exact same democratic principles and structures that existed prior to the revolution with new leaders in place.

No, that's just a simplistic take from someone not paying attention or doing any proper research. It's weird because all I see is the US and other puppet states throwing money at this war and no talk whatsoever of peace, it's almost as if they have an alternative agenda...

Do you also believe the earth is flat?

I go where the evidence takes me, no doubt you believe the 9/11 fairy story (if we're going down the strawman route)

.
Oh, and it wasn't a coup. Stop spreading lies and insulting the dead.

It even has a name, the Maidan coup, it wasn't a 'revolution'. Oh and by the way, it was Victoria Nuland not Madeleine Albright, my mistake, so many psychopaths so little time....

 

[ImmortalFlame]

They don't have to be, but they're certainly well ahead of everyone else when it comes to geopolitical disasters across the planet.

Agreed.

Now, about your specific claims about Maidan being a US-backed coup...)

Vague? seriously? coming from the woman who was not the lightest bit bothered about the half a million Iraqi civilians slaughtered on a lie....

Yes. Vague. Got anything else? Even got a source for this quote so that I see the surrounding context?

No, that's just a simplistic take from someone not paying attention or doing any proper research. It's weird because all I see is the US and other puppet states throwing money at this war and no talk whatsoever of peace, it's almost as if they have an alternative agenda...

Almost as if you're not reading what I wrote. Read it again.

I go where the evidence takes me,

No you don't. You're a conspiracist who goes where propaganda takes you.

no doubt you believe the 9/11 fairy story (if we're going down the strawman route)

Oh no, you are one of them.

Also, learn what a straw man is.

It even has a name, the Maidan coup,

No, that's what you call it. I suppose if I call you "the Russian propagandist" that makes it so?

it wasn't a 'revolution'.

Because millions of Ukrainian civilians took to the streets for no reason whatsoever.

Oh and by the way, it was Victoria Nuland not Madeleine Albright, my mistake, so many psychopaths so little time....

Ooooo, so you mean THAT conversation? The one that says literally nothing and has been widely published on many news sites in full because there's literally nothing incriminating about it at all?

How do you get from "two US politicians discussing their preference for the leadership of Ukraine when in the middle of a leadership crisis" to "therefore, the US orchestrated the whole thing"?

Connect those dots for me. Preferably, with some facts.

 

[Tony B]

Agreed.

Now, about your specific claims about Maidan being a US-backed coup...)

Well start with qui bono and we'll work from there.

Yes. Vague. Got anything else? Even got a source for this quote so that I see the surrounding context?

I've already posted the link to Ukraine on Fire, which spells an awful lot of things out for you, here it is again.

Ukraine and Russia | Ukraine On Fire 2016 Documentary | Russian Aggression or American Interference?

Almost as if you're not reading what I wrote. Read it again.


No you don't. You're a conspiracist who goes where propaganda takes you.

Larry Johnson, ex CIA seems to agree with me, so not really.

Euromaidan Was Part of West's Proxy War Against Russia – CIA Veteran

By the way, do you deny conspiracies exist? because JFK being murdered by a conspiracy was a 'conspiracy theory'.....until it wasn't.

Oh no, you are one of them.

So you do actually believe thin hollow aluminium can slice through concrete and steel then? and firemen who were present are liars right?

Also, learn what a straw man is.


No, that's what you call it. I suppose if I call you "the Russian propagandist" that makes it so?


Because millions of Ukrainian civilians took to the streets for no reason whatsoever.

No, millions didn't, but if you have the evidence I'd love to see it.

Ooooo, so you mean THAT conversation? The one that says literally nothing and has been widely published on many news sites in full because there's literally nothing incriminating about it at all?

How do you get from "two US politicians discussing their preference for the leadership of Ukraine when in the middle of a leadership crisis" to "therefore, the US orchestrated the whole thing"?

I didn't, that's just your narrative, I've given you plenty to look at.

Connect those dots for me. Preferably, with some facts.

See above.

 

[Revoltingest]

Euromaidan Was Part of West's Proxy War Against Russia – CIA Veteran

A source named "Sputnik International"?
Have you vetted it for cromulence?

 

[Sumadji]

Putin always says the truth.

Of course. Everybody believes how his opponents fall out of windows and die in prison of natural causes.

 

[Koldo]

Like every Western country in thrall to the US? the difference being that Russia aren't interfering in Mexico or Canada.

Although the US exerts considerable power over both Mexico and Canada, I don't think it comes anywhere close to the degree that Russia had over Ukraine. Although, if tested, I doubt the US wouldn't increase it by tenfold in a moment.

The Crimea that is of vital strategic importance to Russia and is basically occupied by Russians?

Just goes to show how much of a puppet Ukraine was.

I'm not disputing Russia had their man in Ukraine, Just like the US has their men all over the place, the point is that the USA is essentially asset stripping Ukraine and putting NATO right on the Russian border, despite old assurances this would never happen.

Ukraine's sovereignty to ally with any side be damned, right?

 

[Kathryn]

They still have positive diplomatic ties established in 1991. And, frankly, I don't care about official BS. I care about protecting people from invasion.

You go ahead on and care then. Judiciously.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What about arming a country with a big Nazi presence? What about arming a country with a recent comedian as president?

Your own country has a disturbing number of Nazis and you just elected a game show host and felon to be your President, but Canada - and every other NATO member - is still pledged to defend the US if it's attacked.

 

[Kathryn]

Your own country has a disturbing number of Nazis and you just elected a game show host and felon to be your President, but Canada - and every other NATO member - is still pledged to defend the US if it's attacked.

You would think it would be easier to find the number of neo nazis in the US but I cannot seem to find it at all. Which makes me think it's not a big problem here.

 

[Alien826]

So tell me, how does NATO, a DEFENSIVE treaty threaten Russia? If NATO had eyes on attacking Russia, why haven't they done it in the past before Russia developed nukes?

Russia tested their first nuclear weapon in 1949 and was working on it before that, having spied on the Oppenheimer project. NATO was also formed in 1949.

Difficult to see how NATO could have attacked Russia before they had nuclear weapons.

 

[crossfire]

You would think it would be easier to find the number of neo nazis in the US but I cannot seem to find it at all. Which makes me think it's not a big problem here.

Perhaps if you start with the guest list at Mar-A-Lago?

Trump faulted for dinner with white nationalist, rapper Ye

Former President Donald Trump is drawing criticism for dining with a Holocaust-denying white nationalist and the rapper formerly known as Kanye West.

apnews.com

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You would think it would be easier to find the number of neo nazis in the US but I cannot seem to find it at all.

Why would you think so? It's not like registering.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You would think it would be easier to find the number of neo nazis in the US but I cannot seem to find it at all. Which makes me think it's not a big problem here.

1,403 extremist white supremacist groups as of last year.

The Year in Hate & Extremism 2023

www.splcenter.org

How many does Ukraine have?

 

[Alien826]

"Gaslighting" means to convince someone that
their reality is wrong, & that they're crazy.
Sometimes it would actually be healthy for
people to make this discovery.

Yes, gaslighting is an attempt to make people doubt their sanity, and it is implied that they were previously sane, or at least had a correct understanding of a given situation. It's not where someone tries to convince someone else that they are insane, or incorrect, when they really are.

In the movie ("Gaslight") that started this meaning of the word, the husband would lower the gas pressure, making the house lights dim and when she told him about it he denied that anything had happened, suggesting it was all in her mind. She was of course quite correct that the lights had dimmed.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Every single day I get updates how many people have died in Gaza or Lebanon. Every day. Many articles in my feed.

I don't think I've ever gotten an article in my feed telling me of casualties in Ukraine. Certainly not multiple articles every day.

I know why *I* think there is this double standard, but I'm curious why you all think so.

Im curious how you get that. I do not.