Why The Electoral College Is Fair

[Monk Of Reason]

When you tell someone "Your vote would count for something... if you moved three states over and two north", what do you expect them to say? Why should their vote be effectively silenced due to geographic location?

This is the question I pose to those supporting the EC.

 

[buddhist]

Oh really? Are you sure you want to take that position?

Absolutely.

 

[Quetzal]

This is the question I pose to those supporting the EC.

As do I.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

With only 2 candidates, one will always get at least one vote over 50% (a majority).
With 3, it's possible for each to earn less than 50%, ie, one could get a plurality without getting a majority.

With any number of candidates but instant run off voting we still gurantee a majority.

 

[Quetzal]

Absolutely.

So, those poor saps duking it out in the Middle East, no impact from the Commander and Chief, right?

 

[idav]

When you tell someone "Your vote would count for something... if you moved three states over and two north", what do you expect them to say? Why should their vote be effectively silenced due to geographic location?

They still get there representatives into the government as per state and those states have power all on their own. It is the national vote which should elect the president that way every vote counts. If we did what we do In the electoral college with counties giving them more power than popular votes, the state would not be fairly represented.

 

[buddhist]

So, those poor saps duking it out in the Middle East, no impact from the Commander and Chief, right?

They're the direct concern of the States and of the citizens of the United States. They're not the direct concern of the citizens of the States.

 

[fantome profane]

That's really not much different than a watered down EC, with one person getting to decide how many votes are counted.

That is the essence of representational democracy. One person representing the views and making decisions for many.

Short of becoming borg and merging into a single collective consciousness there is no such thing as perfect absolute democracy.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

That is the essence of representational democracy. One person representing the views and making decisions for many.

Short of becoming borg and merging into a single collective consciousness there is no such thing as perfect absolute democracy.

It would still be a republic even if we had a direct election to the president. A better way would be instant runoff voting so that we gurantee a majority but still have multiple viable options.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Short of becoming borg and merging into a single collective consciousness there is no such thing as perfect absolute democracy.

I actually wouldn't want that. However, our EC was designed for a world that no longer exists, it is counter productive to our ideals of a Liberal Democracy, and there are no good or valid reasons used to defend it. A pure democracy would be a nightmare, however, if there is a vote then all votes must be counted equally and without large swaths of the population having their vote thrown out.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Your vote counts as far as it contributes to directing the State to vote in a specific way.

Yeah, for me, that has only happened twice. Counting state public options, my vote has only "directed" the state three times. Congress, president, governor, my votes are hardly even a blip at the municipal level.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It would still be a republic even if we had a direct election to the president. A better way would be instant runoff voting so that we gurantee a majority but still have multiple viable options.

I think we should go back to casting two votes for president, with the winner being president and runner being vice president. Then we all wish the new couple best of luck while they try not to kill each other in this age of hyper-partisanship.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

I think we should go back to casting two votes for president, with the winner being president and runner being vice president. Then we all wish the new couple best of luck while they try not to kill each other in this age of hyper-partisanship.

Probably not something I would endorse but it sounds funny. It means that the primary determines who will be in the white house one way or another. It might cut down on dirty politics as well.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Probably not something I would endorse but it sounds funny. It means that the primary determines who will be in the white house one way or another. It might cut down on dirty politics as well.

At this point in time, realistically I don't see any better options for forcing Dems and Reps to at least pretend to cooperate and act like mature adults.

 

[esmith]

One could look at the President as a representative of the States and the Congress as a representative of the people.
In other words the President represents the States and is chosen by a vote of each State, thus insuring that a majority of States dictate who becomes President and is the Executive branch of government and can not make laws.
The Congress is the legislative branch and is tasked with making laws and the citizens select who speaks for them.
Again the President speaks for the Country (read all States) and the Congress speak for the citizens.

Probably not expressing my thoughts clearly....still stuffed on yesterdays meals.

 

[Quetzal]

One could look at the President as a representative of the States and the Congress as a representative of the people.
In other words the President represents the States and is chosen by a vote of each State, thus insuring that a majority of States dictate who becomes President and is the Executive branch of government and can not make laws.
The Congress is the legislative branch and is tasked with making laws and the citizens select who speaks for them.
Again the President speaks for the Country (read all States) and the Congress speak for the citizens.

Probably not expressing my thoughts clearly....still stuffed on yesterdays meals.

Sure, i'd buy that! But I just have the ill-thought out opinion that the peeps should be directly picking the big cheese. But that's just my opinion and I feel I have expressed it enough. I will close out to say that the EC system isn't bad. Not at all, I just wish we could try an alternative. But, alas, probably just a pipe dream for now.

 

[buddhist]

Yeah, for me, that has only happened twice. Counting state public options, my vote has only "directed" the state three times. Congress, president, governor, my votes are hardly even a blip at the municipal level.

The weight of your vote is measured against the votes of others. What's the problem?

 

[idav]

One could look at the President as a representative of the States and the Congress as a representative of the people.
In other words the President represents the States and is chosen by a vote of each State, thus insuring that a majority of States dictate who becomes President and is the Executive branch of government and can not make laws.
The Congress is the legislative branch and is tasked with making laws and the citizens select who speaks for them.
Again the President speaks for the Country (read all States) and the Congress speak for the citizens.

Probably not expressing my thoughts clearly....still stuffed on yesterdays meals.

Maybe except congress already represents the states individually. The people are represented regardless, but the peoples state representatives is the Legislature.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The weight of your vote is measured against the votes of others. What's the problem?

The issue is my vote is not counted or considered for the presidential election, I have no one in Congress that I voted for representing me, and none of my political interests are represented. If anything, I have to stand vigilant as the ruling Conservatives here frequently and often have LBGT rights in their sights and plot to undue them. This last election, I am one of over 1-million Indiana voters who vote literally does not matter, does not count, and does not make any difference.

 

[buddhist]

The issue is my vote is not counted or considered for the presidential election, I have no one in Congress that I voted for representing me, and none of my political interests are represented. If anything, I have to stand vigilant as the ruling Conservatives here frequently and often have LBGT rights in their sights and plot to undue them. This last election, I am one of over 1-million Indiana voters who vote literally does not matter, does not count, and does not make any difference.

It would be a larger issue if this was a democracy instead of a republic.