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Audie
Veteran Member
Not if he does not walk with that kind of lurch.
BUT, on the subject, IF he had gone back to Pilate
and asked if he'd like to try again, THEN went
back to a-preachin', I expect we'd all be Christians.
leov
Well-Known Member
. 12“For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it.”
Jesus was also archetypical character.
Myth an legends say some things. ("Holy Blood, Holy Grail", e.g.)
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leov
Well-Known Member
He did.
Tumah
Veteran Member
There's nothing about being a nazir that requires one to live austerely or preach about anything. Likewise, there's no problem for a nazir to get married.
There are only three requirements/prohibitions: (1) he's prohibited from cutting his hair (depending on the time frame of the nazir period, he may cut it once a year), (2) he's prohibited from becoming impure through a dead body (with the exception of a Samson-like nazir vow), (3) he's prohibited from grapes and their derivatives (although mainly it's a prohibition on wine). That's all there is to being a nazir.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
The first part of the above runs counter to what I read a while back from a Jewish source, btw. Their purpose was one of living in haShem to the point whereas earthly pleasures were usually reduced, and with the intent of doing duty to God which, granted, may not involve preaching per se. And it is customary that a nazir gives up that practice when he got married.
I'll try and find my source tomorrow since I'll have more time then.
BTW, thanks for the inclusion of the other characteristics of a nazir, and the one that may imply that Jesus may not have been one is the abstinence from wine.
susanblange
Active Member
God is a husband and a wife and they are one flesh. Genesis 2:24, Isaiah 54:5-6. The earliest name of God is Elohim and it is a majestic plural. God is Energy and the forces in nature. Daniel 11:38. Our sun is the source of Energy for the Universe. Psalm 19:4-5. "...in them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber..." The wife of God is the Lord, the Messiah.
Sand Dancer
Currently catless
So Jesus damaged his gonads for Yahweh? Ew.
Tumah
Veteran Member
I have not seen that. I have seen that there is meant to be some distancing from earthly pleasures in the form of abstinence from wine. I have not heard anything about giving it up when getting married. The nazirite period is defined within the vow, so I'm not sure how - or why honestly- getting married would be related. Samson seems to agree. My understanding of the nazirite vow is that it's more of a way to curb yourself and get back on track. Not something like a monastic vow.
That would be great.
I didn't mean to add to the list you gave earlier. The ones I mentioned are the only characteristics of a nazir that I know about and that Jewish Law talks about (outside of the sacrifices and breaking vows and things like that).
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leov
Well-Known Member
It is well known in the East that celibacy is beneficial to enhance meditation and enlightenment results .
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
This is not the source I was looking for but it gives at least part of what I posted (see underlined part especially):
The rabbinic attitude to *asceticism can be seen in the dictum of Eleazar ha-Kappar (19a); that the Nazirite is called "a sinner by reason of the soul" (Num. 6:11) because he denied himself wine: "If then one who denies himself wine only is termed a sinner, how much so then one who is an ascetic in all things!" Support for this point of view is also found in the Jerusalem Talmud (Kid. 4:12, 66d): Man is destined to be called to account for everything (permitted) he saw (and desired) but did not partake of... -- Nazir
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metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
@Tumah, let me add this (still not the one I was looking for however):
A. Before the hippy, there was the nazir. A nazir was a man who would isolate himself from certain material luxuries for purposes of spiritual heightenings. (A female nazir was called a nezirah; pronounced neh-ZEE-rah.) He or she was a sort of a hippy, but without the "Hey-do-your-own-thing" attitude.
B. A nazir (pronounced NAH-zeer) or nezirah is a nazirite, but what's a nazirite (other than a poor translation of the word nazir)? These Hebrew words both mean "delineated one;" they come from the root word neizer (pronounced NAY-zehr) which means delineation or designation. The nazir or nezirah would delineate certain things as off-limits, the absence of which would enhance their spiritual sensitivity and deaden their cravings for physical pleasures.
C. Here's a excellent definition of "nazir" by Encyclopedia.com: "In the Bible, a man dedicated to G-d. The Nazarite, after taking a special vow, abstained from intoxicating beverages, never cut his hair, and avoided corpses. An inadvertent breach of these rules called for purificatory rites. His vow was for a fixed term (though it could also be for life), at the end of which he was released. Samuel, the prophet, and Samson were Nazarites. The name is also spelled Nazirite." ... -- What is a nazir? - mitzvot holy temple mitzvot history the holy temples miscellaneous vows
As for leaving when getting married, I couldn't find a reference to that, but it might have been assumed as being normative since how many wives would want this sort of approach? However, you appear to be correct in that it seems not to have been any kind of requirement.
A. Before the hippy, there was the nazir. A nazir was a man who would isolate himself from certain material luxuries for purposes of spiritual heightenings. (A female nazir was called a nezirah; pronounced neh-ZEE-rah.) He or she was a sort of a hippy, but without the "Hey-do-your-own-thing" attitude.
B. A nazir (pronounced NAH-zeer) or nezirah is a nazirite, but what's a nazirite (other than a poor translation of the word nazir)? These Hebrew words both mean "delineated one;" they come from the root word neizer (pronounced NAY-zehr) which means delineation or designation. The nazir or nezirah would delineate certain things as off-limits, the absence of which would enhance their spiritual sensitivity and deaden their cravings for physical pleasures.
C. Here's a excellent definition of "nazir" by Encyclopedia.com: "In the Bible, a man dedicated to G-d. The Nazarite, after taking a special vow, abstained from intoxicating beverages, never cut his hair, and avoided corpses. An inadvertent breach of these rules called for purificatory rites. His vow was for a fixed term (though it could also be for life), at the end of which he was released. Samuel, the prophet, and Samson were Nazarites. The name is also spelled Nazirite." ... -- What is a nazir? - mitzvot holy temple mitzvot history the holy temples miscellaneous vows
As for leaving when getting married, I couldn't find a reference to that, but it might have been assumed as being normative since how many wives would want this sort of approach? However, you appear to be correct in that it seems not to have been any kind of requirement.
So then why is it not possible he would have married, even if he said he was "from above"? Marrying is a human thing, just like all the rest of the stuff that makes us, and him, human.
Sand Dancer
Currently catless
That's true. Buddha is another good example, but then the middle way probably does not include celibacy.
leov
Well-Known Member
Because He was an EXAMPLE of the narrow way, pure spiritual action.
Tumah
Veteran Member
I'm not sure I understand how you are bringing this as an extension of what you wrote earlier. In your earlier post you explained that the nazir lived in austerity. This passage is saying that the nazir only denies himself wine.
leov
Well-Known Member
What is overlooked, imo, that Christ Jesus had an ascetic (Essene) bias to His teachings.
Sand Dancer
Currently catless
I have read that as well. Not sure if John the Baptist was Essene, but his views influenced Jesus for sure.
Audie
Veteran Member
Are you saying that only the unmarried are capable of following pure spiritual action?