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Why would god require human sacrifice?

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
The sacrifice of Christ to atone for original sin is the doctrine in every mainstream Christian denomination including Catholicism. The Paschal Lamb of God and all that.

There are various theories of how this happened. None are dogma and no one is quite sure. I lean towards a mixture of the Christus Victor, Recapitulation and Moral Influence theories, all of which are much older than the Blood Atonement theories that became popular from 1000 to now. There are good points to all the theories and all of them have shortcomings, too.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
With all due respect, we don't view Jesus' death as "human sacrifice" but as symbolic of an unblemished lamb. Zola Levitt (a Messianic Jew) compared Jesus' death as a "Passover Lamb". I don't 100% understand the Jewish side of these things, however, because although I have Jewish ancestry, I was never a practicing Jew.

It is also called a sacrifice and is symbolic of using the blood on the doors to avoid the wrath of god on Egypt that their first borns would die.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
It is also called a sacrifice and is symbolic of using the blood on the doors to avoid the wrath of god on Egypt that their first borns would die.

Yes, a sacrifice of lambs and the lamb was eaten. The first born dying wasn't human sacrifice but a plague. I am not going to say I 100% understand all of it, however. I am not an expert.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Yes, a sacrifice of lambs and the lamb was eaten. The first born dying wasn't human sacrifice but a plague. I am not going to say I 100% understand all of it, however. I am not an expert.

Well I agree with the additional details about the eating of the lamb and the plague thing. The blood allowed the good guys to be passed over.
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Well I agree with the additional details about the eating of the lamb and the plague thing. The blood allowed the good guys to be passed over.

The good guys? How did you determine who was good and who wasn't?
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
The good guys? How did you determine who was good and who wasn't?

I'm not all together certain on that, after all god was killing the enemies first borns. It sounds kinda heinous when you think about it. :shrug:
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Personally, when I evaluate an Atonement theory, I look for two things:

First, that it factors in the whole of Christ's life in His saving work and doesn't obsess over the crucifixion to the point where everything else is glossed over or placed in the backdrop. After all, Christianity has always understood Easter to be the centerpiece of the liturgical calender, not Good Friday. Unfortunately, Western Christianity makes it a habit of focusing on the crucifixion to the point of nearly ignoring the Resurrection. This is not good. Our Eastern brothers and sisters don't do this and we would do much good to be like them in this matter. Eastern Christianity is much more optimistic and hopeful than Western Christianity tends to be and that is how it was in the early Church. I think it's past time to return to our ancient roots on this matter.

Second, the theory can't imagine God to be like some bloodthirsty, wrathful pagan god. That is obscene and offensive and an affront to the New Testament God of mercy and compassion, the God Who loves us so much that He would die to show us the depths of His love.

So, that in mind, the Satisfaction theories and the Penal Substitution theories are out the window. Both take a legalistic view of God as demanding a blood sacrifice of His Son. Both pretty much ignore the Resurrection and the teachings of Christ's life. Both make salvation into just being a legal transaction or even a financial transaction. So those two theories should be dismissed out of hand. All the criticism about it making it seem like God is demanding a human sacrifice is true. Even Benedict XVI made the same criticism of the Satisfaction theory.

To be honest, I don't recall ever being taught Anselm's Satisfaction theory or the Penal Substitution theory. (I never would've been taught the Penal theory as that is a Calvinist invention that is rejected by the Church.) How I always understood it is that Christ's sacrifice was one of limitless love to the Father, Who found this more pleasing than the imperfect animal sacrifices given. He did not have the sins of humanity laid upon Him, but rather became one with our sinful nature in a mysterious way while remaining sinless Himself. This ties into Christ being the New Adam Who succeeded where Adam failed (Mary is the New Eve who succeeded where Eve failed.) So already, my position is closer to the Recapitulation theory. There's nothing about a legalistic idea of God's wrath (such as in the Penal theory) or God's honor being offended (Satisfaction theory). 3 days after that, He triumphed over death, thus destroying the power of evil in the world. In this too, He reveals Himself as the New Adam Who makes humanity anew. So there's elements of the Christus Victor theory in my belief. As for Moral Influence, His life is one of perfect moral example to us that causes inner change when we meditate upon it and follow Christ.
 
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Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
I'm not all together certain on that, after all god was killing the enemies first borns. It sounds kinda heinous when you think about it. :shrug:

I wouldn't be surprised if most/some Jews dismiss the authenticity of the event altogether.. It's pretty ridiculous. And I'd overlooked the implications of the narrative several times in my youth, as it was taught. I've overlooked the stupidity of many of these narratives, being raised as a Christian. People are largely very ignorant of the consequences they put into the world.
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Not in the context the rest of the thread is in...

Sacrifice of human life, in other words? I agree. But, I'd have to consider circumcision as a form of human sacrifice.. Killing (including self-defense) in general would be the only other human sacrifice, I can think of, that God condones biblically. Israel was ordered to wipe out entire civilizations, down to the infants, in some cases. I'd have to include those instances, along with aforementioned examples like Noah's flood, Egypt's firstborns, etc.
 

ScuzManiac

Active Member
God does not command wars or an eye for an eye.

Then who does? If human sacrifice is forbidden, why isn't God still coming down and saying "no no no" like he was in The Bible? Seems a little odd that he cared more about one person than he does entire nations. Care to enlighten me?

And no, I'm not being a jerk. I'd just like you to make a little sense out of this for me.
 

CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
Then who does?

We do, we keep sacrificing human beings in order to keep our civilization and power structures going.

If human sacrifice is forbidden, why isn't God still coming down and saying "no no no" like he was in The Bible?
He did come down and say "no no no", then we promptly nailed him to a cross and sacrificed him to the idols of our own selfish desires. I don't think he needs to repeat the experience.
 

ruffen

Active Member
With all due respect, we don't view Jesus' death as "human sacrifice" but as symbolic of an unblemished lamb. Zola Levitt (a Messianic Jew) compared Jesus' death as a "Passover Lamb". I don't 100% understand the Jewish side of these things, however, because although I have Jewish ancestry, I was never a practicing Jew.


16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
 

ruffen

Active Member
Of course They knew it was His destiny. It happened to fulfill certain prophecies. Done asking dumb questions now?

Nope, plenty more dumb questions to come!

So it was his destiny, and God then got so angry with those who fulfilled that destiny that the sky turned black with his rage?
 

ruffen

Active Member
Hebrews 9:12 ESV / 9 helpful votes

He entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.


How can aynone still claim that the death of Jesus wasn't a sacrifice?
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Why would god require human sacrifice?

G-d never asked for any human sacrifice literally and physically. It is misunderstanding of the narrators/scribes and the clergy.

Why would He want?

Regards
 

ruffen

Active Member
Romans 3:25New International Version (NIV)

25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[a] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—
 

ruffen

Active Member
Hebrews 10:14New International Version (NIV)

14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Romans 3:25New International Version (NIV)

25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement,[a] through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—

The above has got nothing to do with Jesus.
It is just a conjecture by somebody or an attempt to carve a new creed from a myth.

Regards
 
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