Why would gods use cultural diffusion?

[dybmh]

For instance, for a being with godlike power, it would be trivially easy to just implant whatever knowledge is supposed to be gleaned by the holy text directly into every newborn: then it won’t become region locked, people wouldn’t fight over whose holy text is holiest, people wouldn’t be born in regions that don’t have easy cultural access to the holy text or priest class that reads it, etc. Why not this instead?

My answer is the same for this as for why doesn't God create a world without evil or suffering. The process of learning and developing from a primitive society has more value than having a perfected society from the very beginning.

 

[stvdv]

Why would gods choose such an obviously inefficient way to spread their message, especially if (in some worldviews) that message has infinite consequences?

For instance, for a being with godlike power, it would be trivially easy to just implant whatever knowledge is supposed to be gleaned by the holy text directly into every newborn: then it won’t become region locked, people wouldn’t fight over whose holy text is holiest, people wouldn’t be born in regions that don’t have easy cultural access to the holy text or priest class that reads it, etc. Why not this instead?

When I was young I created games. I did not like dull games. The best games are those that are challenging and full of adventure
And the games always had some kind of goal in them, making it more interesting.
I totally understand "why not this instead?"
People just like this better

Some girls, even beautiful blondes, go after "bad boys/girls". They can choose "good boys/girls" too, but they choose the "bad boys/girls"

 

[Nakosis]

Many “revealed religions” depend on prophets and holy texts to get their messages out to people: in order to figure out what God wants, you either have to read this holy text or have a class of priests that read the text tell you what the text says.

But this is a form of cultural diffusion: whether or not the text is available to you before the modern world (with printing presses and internet) depends on whether you’re born in the region where the book is in print, whether your culture supports the priest class that can tell you what the text says (such as if you’re illiterate), things like this. Even today, we see religions based on particular texts to be somewhat geographically locked as tends to happen with things (like fashion) that are spread through cultural diffusion.

Why would gods choose such an obviously inefficient way to spread their message, especially if (in some worldviews) that message has infinite consequences?

For instance, for a being with godlike power, it would be trivially easy to just implant whatever knowledge is supposed to be gleaned by the holy text directly into every newborn: then it won’t become region locked, people wouldn’t fight over whose holy text is holiest, people wouldn’t be born in regions that don’t have easy cultural access to the holy text or priest class that reads it, etc. Why not this instead?

Seems obvious that any God or gods had no involvement in this. Or if they did, their actions were likely for their own amusement.

Pretty arrogant IMO, for any human to decide they can speak for God. All the problems our with religion in our history boils down to this belief.

However, humans are going to go about believing stupid things. Just is just one among many.

 

[firedragon]

Many “revealed religions” depend on prophets and holy texts to get their messages out to people: in order to figure out what God wants, you either have to read this holy text or have a class of priests that read the text tell you what the text says.

But this is a form of cultural diffusion: whether or not the text is available to you before the modern world (with printing presses and internet) depends on whether you’re born in the region where the book is in print, whether your culture supports the priest class that can tell you what the text says (such as if you’re illiterate), things like this. Even today, we see religions based on particular texts to be somewhat geographically locked as tends to happen with things (like fashion) that are spread through cultural diffusion.

Why would gods choose such an obviously inefficient way to spread their message, especially if (in some worldviews) that message has infinite consequences?

For instance, for a being with godlike power, it would be trivially easy to just implant whatever knowledge is supposed to be gleaned by the holy text directly into every newborn: then it won’t become region locked, people wouldn’t fight over whose holy text is holiest, people wouldn’t be born in regions that don’t have easy cultural access to the holy text or priest class that reads it, etc. Why not this instead?

Depends if the so called culture was created by the revelation or the culture existed and the so called revelation just reiterated it. The problem with generalising an idea you have is that, its just that. Vis a vis, general. Thus the platform you built your argument upon will need the platform to be analysed with more study and specific analysis.

Anyway your solution to the problem you had come up with is to create software enabled computers. That would have been a better solution in other words. God should have created computers with software giving everything necessary. Quite simple. Then God becomes a central computer managing a factory that manufactures computers, they will be distributed by other computers to whatever locations required, no culture but one culture, no cultural diffusion but one single culture, unnamed since nothing of the sort is required.

 

[Meow Mix]

Is there a better way than people telling other people?
For everyone however God can judge people without them having heard the gospel message.

I suggested one possibility. Cultural diffusion has the problem of region locking, texts that can be altered or mistranslated, needs a priest class to disseminate, it’s easy for people to doubt, etc.

Seems a better way would be for God to take the information that God wants people to know from the holy text and instead put it directly into each newborn’s mind.

That removes the problem of region locking, it removes the problem of mistranslations and deciding which books or hadiths or anything like that are canon, it removes the problem of people not knowing which book is genuine, it removes the need for prophets or priest classes whose authenticity can be doubted, etc.

 

[Meow Mix]

Depends if the so called culture was created by the revelation or the culture existed and the so called revelation just reiterated it. The problem with generalising an idea you have is that, its just that. Vis a vis, general. Thus the platform you built your argument upon will need the platform to be analysed with more study and specific analysis.

Anyway your solution to the problem you had come up with is to create software enabled computers. That would have been a better solution in other words. God should have created computers with software giving everything necessary. Quite simple. Then God becomes a central computer managing a factory that manufactures computers, they will be distributed by other computers to whatever locations required, no culture but one culture, no cultural diffusion but one single culture, unnamed since nothing of the sort is required.

So why didn’t God choose some more efficient method than prophets and books?

 

[Koldo]

My answer is the same for this as for why doesn't God create a world without evil or suffering. The process of learning and developing from a primitive society has more value than having a perfected society from the very beginning.

How did you reach this conclusion?

 

[firedragon]

So why didn’t God choose some more efficient method than prophets and books?

The thing is this MM. We are assuming there are "better" ways and "worse" ways. The fact remains we have no clue. In our eyes one may be better for whatever reason, but it could be the worse thing to do. Forget about God for a while.

Think about a universal determinism. IF the first life was a single cell amiba, what butterfly effect would change me typing on this keyboard and communicating with you? Is there a way you and I could think of to make the world a better place (what ever that is) by traveling back in time and tweaking the first amiba? Maybe if we place this organism on top of a mountain, will that mean today we will all be higher beings communicating via telepathy and there won't be any need for power or hunger? What variables are we capable of understanding?

I know you don't believe a God exists and that is a whole other matter. Its even not relevant to be methodological in an analysis. This is why in these cases a methodological reality that this "God" is a transcended being is valid.

 

[Moonjuice]

So why didn’t God choose some more efficient method than prophets and books?

The only answer that makes sense to me is that a god had nothing to do with it. Humans used the only method of communication available at the time, verbally repeating stories they have been told by their ancestors. As writing developed, some stories began to get written down. Its obvious that the absolute worst way to disseminate information to large groups of people is to tell only 1 person in secret, who speaks only 1 language. On the flip side, the best way to invent a religion out of thin air, is to convince people god has spoken directly to you (in secret) and wants you to be in charge and deliver his message. The bible appears exactly as it should appear, if the contents came from the minds of humans in the bonze aged middle east.

 

[1213]

...Why would gods choose such an obviously inefficient way to spread their message, especially if (in some worldviews) that message has infinite consequences?

For instance, for a being with godlike power, it would be trivially easy to just implant whatever knowledge...

I think it is possible that all people have the knowledge, some just want to silence it, because they desire evil things and don't really like the sound of God. And when that goes long enough, God sends prophets to warn people.

 

[Justanatheist]

I think it is possible that all people have the knowledge, some just want to silence it, because they desire evil things and don't really like the sound of God. And when that goes long enough, God sends prophets to warn people.

People like myself will assure you that we were given no such knowledge, why do you think I am lying?

 

[Meow Mix]

The thing is this MM. We are assuming there are "better" ways and "worse" ways. The fact remains we have no clue. In our eyes one may be better for whatever reason, but it could be the worse thing to do. Forget about God for a while.

Think about a universal determinism. IF the first life was a single cell amiba, what butterfly effect would change me typing on this keyboard and communicating with you? Is there a way you and I could think of to make the world a better place (what ever that is) by traveling back in time and tweaking the first amiba? Maybe if we place this organism on top of a mountain, will that mean today we will all be higher beings communicating via telepathy and there won't be any need for power or hunger? What variables are we capable of understanding?

I know you don't believe a God exists and that is a whole other matter. Its even not relevant to be methodological in an analysis. This is why in these cases a methodological reality that this "God" is a transcended being is valid.

But is this just saying “there is a mysterious reason we can’t know for why God uses cultural diffusion instead of some other method?”

If so (and maybe I have misinterpreted), isn’t that really unsatisfying?

 

[Meow Mix]

I think it is possible that all people have the knowledge, some just want to silence it, because they desire evil things and don't really like the sound of God. And when that goes long enough, God sends prophets to warn people.

I can introspect that I have no such knowledge. I have never understood this view: that skeptics somehow “know God exists,” but just deny it. We skeptics can immediately know any such worldview is wrong by mere introspection.

 

[firedragon]

But is this just saying “there is a mysterious reason we can’t know for why God uses cultural diffusion instead of some other method?”

You are using cultural diffusion. Can you give me a specific cases with analysis where all religions that came with a prophet and a scripture used cultural diffusion? Did they create the culture or did the reiterate the culture?

 

[Meow Mix]

You are using cultural diffusion. Can you give me a specific cases with analysis where all religions that came with a prophet and a scripture used cultural diffusion? Did they create the culture or did the reiterate the culture?

I don’t understand what you’re saying. Using human culture to spread a message is cultural diffusion.

Any god that’s actually a god would have better means than this: better because it would avoid the weaknesses of cultural diffusion (being locked to geographical regions, having text mistranslated or altered, the slow speed at which it gets disseminated, everything mentioned in the OP).

This feels like a straightforward question: why wouldn’t a god, if one exists, use a better method than this to spread information?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I suppose I’m talking about all the versions of God. I believe that all religion is from the singular same God, so I don’t see them as different in any way. The God of Zoroastrianism is the God of Christianity, IMO, for example. Most Christians don’t agree with Syncretism.
What is your version of God, as an atheist?

I don't have any as an atheist, but if I have given it a try before, but figured out I didn't needed to believe in God.
So this was my version. God is unknowable and the only way to God is to look at the world, She created and listen to Her children and try to leave in peace. I didn't need the belief in God for that, because I was already doing it without the belief in God.

 

[Meow Mix]

My answer is the same for this as for why doesn't God create a world without evil or suffering. The process of learning and developing from a primitive society has more value than having a perfected society from the very beginning.

I missed this response earlier, sorry.

In what way does transmitting information to people make their society perfect? I am imagining there would still be different cultures, just with whatever information God wants them to have from holy texts implanted.

If the information in the holy texts isn’t that important (such that it doesn’t matter that it spreads slowly, or gets region locked, or gets mistranslated, etc.), then do you not believe there are infinite consequences for believing the right holy text?

 

[firedragon]

I don’t understand what you’re saying. Using human culture to spread a message is cultural diffusion.

Any god that’s actually a god would have better means than this: better because it would avoid the weaknesses of cultural diffusion (being locked to geographical regions, having text mistranslated or altered, the slow speed at which it gets disseminated, everything mentioned in the OP).

This feels like a straightforward question: why wouldn’t a god, if one exists, use a better method than this to spread information?

What is better?

 

[Meow Mix]

What is better?

It seems reasonable that something that avoids the weaknesses would be better. For instance, if God is writing a book via prophets, it’s reasonable to assume that God has something God wants to say or something God wants people to know.

Rather than telling people through such an inefficient, error-prone method, why not just directly give newborns this knowledge that God wants us to know?

 

[firedragon]

It seems reasonable that something that avoids the weaknesses would be better. For instance, if God is writing a book via prophets, it’s reasonable to assume that God has something God wants to say or something God wants people to know.

Rather than telling people through such an inefficient, error-prone method, why not just directly give newborns this knowledge that God wants us to know?

Which would go back to us and computers.

Anyway, how would you or I know this is a better methodology? How would we know in another 1000 years this would work better and for what plan?