Why would I Loving God create Life?

[tarasan]

still...
where is the evidence that the christian god is a loving god?

you can't use the bible as evidence unless circular logic is the logic your content with

considering that the statement "where is the evidence that the christian God is a loving God?" presupposes Christianity which traditionally gets its teaching from the bible, I dont see how it is circular reasoning.

it would be like me saying to you "as a scientist prove evolution is the case", and then when you use the scientific method I accuse you of circular reasoning. its silly.

 

[dawny0826]

If God is love (1 John 4:8) why was I born?
I mean if I listen to half the religious centres within a few miles, I'm damned because I don't believe in their prophets, or I wasn't baptisted right, or one bit of more doctirnes are out of line, or for the Calvinists I never had a choice to begin with

Why was I even born then? I don't believe in eternal hell fire as it's unbiblical but I'd rather stay out of Gehenna. For all I know any one of these groups could be right, I might as well be damned. In that case, why did God make me? So I could struggle to find him my whole life and then end up damned? So I could fail myself and Him as much as possibly between now and my death bed? How can a loving God do that?

I like to believe that God, like his creation, craves interaction and closeness.

If you desire to be reconciled with God, I doubt that you'll wind up damned. A loving God wouldn't set you up to fail. His love surpasses our fear and doubt. We complicate salvation by tainting it as something that we have to earn time and time again. It's been paid for, because you are so loved by a loving God.

You can cast your worries and doubt upon Him. If you believe and live according to his will, your fate is already determined. We complicate things through our own fear and doubt. There's really nothing to fear. It's through fear and doubt that we lose sight of God's love and peace as God is not found in fear and doubt.

 

[Nakosis]

Christian's draw our concept of God from the Bible and from Christ's character, therefore Biblical verses are the best proof of our God's character

If we didn't use biblical verses we'd be speaking of a vague god, how we are speaking of our God who is love (1 John 4:8)

How, where do you think the people who wrote these things got their knowledge?

If these "truths" were evident to them shouldn't they be evident to you as well? You don't even know who these people were but you accept their claims about God. Why?

What makes you think they knew any more about God then anyone else? If I wrote down some things about God would you believe me? Would you accept them as true?

Why accept they knew any more about God then you do? What good reason is there to accept the claims of people you don't know?

 

[ForeverFaithful]

How, where do you think the people who wrote these things got their knowledge?

If these "truths" were evident to them shouldn't they be evident to you as well? You don't even know who these people were but you accept their claims about God. Why?

What makes you think they knew any more about God then anyone else? If I wrote down some things about God would you believe me? Would you accept them as true?

Why accept they knew any more about God then you do? What good reason is there to accept the claims of people you don't know?

We are speaking of the Christian God, as portrayed by Biblical Christianity, We are not however speaking of his existence

Edit. And many of the authors of the Bible met Christ in person

 

[tarasan]

still...
where is the evidence that the christian god is a loving god?

you can't use the bible as evidence unless circular logic is the logic your content with

maybe it would be better if I explained it more formally.

Circular reasoning by definition is "The circular argument uses its own conclusion as one of its stated or unstated premises. Instead of offering proof, it simply asserts the conclusion in another form, thereby inviting the listener to accept it as settled when, in fact, it has not been settled. Because the premise is no different from and therefore as questionable as its conclusion, a circular argument violates the criterion of acceptability."
circular argument - definition and examples of circular argument - logical fallacies

an example of this would be if a christian were to prove the bibles is the word of god

1)The bible claims to be the infallible word of God
2) therefore the bible is the infallible word of God.

However does the same thing happen in this situation?

1)The bible makes claims about a God
2)The Christians claim the bible as depicting their God
3) Therefore to Christians the bible is talking about their God.

The statements above is derived from deductive reasoning and does not have circular reasoning. so as long as the reasons to believe 1+2 are more believable then their negations then 3 holds.

From this reasoning we can deduce that if one wanted to know about the Christian God then one would use the bible.

see all that and no circular reasoning used.

 

[Nakosis]

We are speaking of the Christian God, as portrayed by Biblical Christianity, We are not however speaking of his existence

Edit. And many of the authors of the Bible met Christ in person

Yes but you are relying on their claims about his character.

Maybe they met Jesus. Like who was the author of Luke? It's assumed Luke was a Doctor, a friend of Paul. No real indication he met Jesus. It's assumed he also wrote Acts.

Mark is assumed to have been a disciple of Peter. He relied on Peter and perhaps oral stories for the gospels.

I think again tradition claims these people to have met Jesus. You trust those who made these claims of tradition.

Not saying you can't but I don't know that there is a good reason to.

Still the main point is, you have nothing other then what others wrote to know about God?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Brainwashed? I'm sorry but ad homnems don't convince anyone, would you care to use a rational arrangement, on top of that before you generalize this all towards my religious affiliations, why not consider that on averge Religious people are happier? (with the expections of certains sects I shall not bring up)

I don't care about the negative stuff, I could handle that, I can't fathom the idea that there is a life after this and that this one some how retains meaning, I was brought into a world and now I have a choice bet life and damnation, what was the point of being born in the first place?

Oh yes, you sound incredibly happy. Religion is working out great for you. Go back to sleep.

 

[tarasan]

Oh yes, you sound incredibly happy. Religion is working out great for you. Go back to sleep.

now in all fairness mr Trout he did say in general

 

[waitasec]

considering that the statement "where is the evidence that the christian God is a loving God?" presupposes Christianity which traditionally gets its teaching from the bible, I dont see how it is circular reasoning.

it would be like me saying to you "as a scientist prove evolution is the case", and then when you use the scientific method I accuse you of circular reasoning. its silly.

the scientist proves evolution because it uses the scientific method which is a method that removes biases
Scientific method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the idea came from the christian bible and if those who rely only on the bible which tells them 'god is a loving god', then they are using circular logic

so the theory is
god is loving:
where else can one confirm god is loving besides the bible?
you have subjective evidence...nothing to stand on
you lack empirical evidence
so one goes back to the bible and says, ' i believe god is loving and i believe the bible through faith, because i know this is circular logic'

nice try.

 

[tarasan]

the scientist proves evolution because it uses the scientific method which is a method that removes biases
Scientific method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the idea came from the christian bible and if those who rely only on the bible which tells them 'god is a loving god', then they are using circular logic

so the theory is
god is loving:
where else can one confirm god is loving besides the bible?
you have subjective evidence...nothing to stand on
you lack empirical evidence
so one goes back to the bible and says, ' i believe god is loving and i believe the bible through faith, because i know this is circular logic'

nice try.

circular reasoning in bold. science proves science?

You claimed that it was the Christian god so why suddenly go back to a generic God?

again you were talking about the Christian god in the post i quoted in order to show that I used information about the Christian God those last two sentences of reasoning are bad please use the reasoning i used in the second quote.

and it seems to have been a pretty good try from your response XD

 

[Nakosis]

considering that the statement "where is the evidence that the christian God is a loving God?" presupposes Christianity which traditionally gets its teaching from the bible, I dont see how it is circular reasoning.

it would be like me saying to you "as a scientist prove evolution is the case", and then when you use the scientific method I accuse you of circular reasoning. its silly.

The proof would be in providing evidence that you can test and experience for yourself. That would be the scientific method.

If I were to say the scientific method was reliable because it proves the truth of evolution, that be circular.

The scientific method with regard to the Bible would work the same. Providing evidence that you can observe/test for your self. It's not the scientific method you are relying on it's reliance on evidence you can test for yourself and verify.

Not to say one can't use Science in the same authoritative way as the Bible but it defeats the intent of the Scientific Method.

 

[idav]

If God is love (1 John 4:8) why was I born?
I mean if I listen to half the religious centres within a few miles, I'm damned because I don't believe in their prophets, or I wasn't baptisted right, or one bit of more doctirnes are out of line, or for the Calvinists I never had a choice to begin with

Why was I even born then? I don't believe in eternal hell fire as it's unbiblical but I'd rather stay out of Gehenna. For all I know any one of these groups could be right, I might as well be damned. In that case, why did God make me? So I could struggle to find him my whole life and then end up damned? So I could fail myself and Him as much as possibly between now and my death bed? How can a loving God do that?

If God really is love, I don't think you have much to worry about with the rest of what you posted.

 

[InChrist]

do you mean this in a general way or something more christian specific?

I always enjoy going for the best explanation rather than what is "true". So when it comes to knowing if your damned or not, I would advise you do a careful exegesis of scripture, and see where you stand.

I've read the bible cover to cover, and came out with more questions then answers, Christ said the Truth would said you free, and the fruits of the spirit include Joy, yet I feel neither



That Christ is the meaning of all life, I'm troubled, what does that mean for little Abdul living in Saudi Arabia where Christianity is illegal and he'll never hear the gosepl? or Igor who grew up in Stallnist Russia where he was taught to hate God and never knew anything else? What about people today growing up in rural south east Asia, What is the meaning of their lives? Why where they born? Likewise what if I'm going down the wrong path, why was I born?

If you personally know the love of Jesus Christ and realize you were created to live eternally with Him in glory how is it that you are not overflowing with gratefulness and joy? Or do you not know Him?


Do you think God is so small that He does not know each person or cannot reach anyone anywhere who is seeking Him. According to the scriptures He even knows and cares when a sparrow falls.

 

[Nakosis]

If you personally know the love of Jesus Christ and realize you were created to live eternally with Him in glory how is it that you are not overflowing with gratefulness and joy? Or do you not know Him?


Do you think God is so small that He does not know each person or cannot reach anyone anywhere who is seeking Him. According to the scriptures He even knows and cares when a sparrow falls.

How do you as a Christian deal with Yahweh of the OT? Yahweh was more vengeful and full of wrath kind of God.

You go from an eye for an eye to forgiveness.
I can kind of understand promoting Christ as God, makes a more compassionate God than Yahweh in general. Always seemed a striking dissimilarity between the OT and NT Gods.

 

[Photonic]

If God is love (1 John 4:8) why was I born?
I mean if I listen to half the religious centres within a few miles, I'm damned because I don't believe in their prophets, or I wasn't baptisted right, or one bit of more doctirnes are out of line, or for the Calvinists I never had a choice to begin with

Why was I even born then? I don't believe in eternal hell fire as it's unbiblical but I'd rather stay out of Gehenna. For all I know any one of these groups could be right, I might as well be damned. In that case, why did God make me? So I could struggle to find him my whole life and then end up damned? So I could fail myself and Him as much as possibly between now and my death bed? How can a loving God do that?

Those are some heretical questions that would have gotten you killed just little over a hundred years ago.

 

[InChrist]

How do you as a Christian deal with Yahweh of the OT? Yahweh was more vengeful and full of wrath kind of God.

You go from an eye for an eye to forgiveness.
I can kind of understand promoting Christ as God, makes a more compassionate God than Yahweh in general. Always seemed a striking dissimilarity between the OT and NT Gods.

I don't see God as vengeful in the OT. I see Him as very Just. In the OT God's holiness was displayed which included His judgment of evil. Yet, throughout the history of Israel and the surrounding nations God demonstrated extreme patience and gave warnings over and over again and ample time for people to turn from their wickedness before judgement came upon them. The scriptures, I believe must be read and taken as a whole. God's character includes love, forgiveness, and compassion, but it also includes holiness, righteousness and justice. which means sin and evil will be judged.

 

[Tristesse]

I don't see God as vengeful in the OT. I see Him as very Just. In the OT God's holiness was displayed which included His judgment of evil. Yet, throughout the history of Israel and the surrounding nations God demonstrated extreme patience and gave warnings over and over again and ample time for people to turn from their wickedness before judgement came upon them. The scriptures, I believe must be read and taken as a whole. God's character includes love, forgiveness, and compassion, but it also includes holiness, righteousness and justice. which means sin and evil will be judged.

Well, did god not create evil?

 

[InChrist]

Well, did god not create evil?

No, God did not make evil He reveals, exposes, and defines evil which occurs when any creature is in opposition to His goodness.



Isaiah:45:7. “I form the light and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.”

"This is a verse that, of course, the atheist critics have jumped on. Yes, why does God create evil? I think the verse explains itself. He says: I form light and create darkness. Well, we know that darkness isn’t something that God created literally—darkness is nothing—darkness is the absence of light. So, what He is saying is that the light reveals the darkness in contrast. If you grow up in a cave a hundred yards under the ground, totally dark, you wouldn’t be aware that you were in darkness that would be natural to you. If suddenly somebody came in with a flashlight, then you would recognize the darkness for what it is. So, God is saying that in the same way he creates evil. Evil is not something that God conjured up and then men have somehow fallen into this morass because God made them or God entrapped them in it."

"Evil is the absence of good, but it is more than the absence of good, it is opposition to good. In other words, the Scripture defines sin as falling short of the glory of God. We were made in the image of God and then the Bible says, “…all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.” So, sin is anything that is less than God’s perfection. So, this is the way that God creates evil. In other words, he defines evil. His purity, his perfection defines everything else as evil, but evil isn’t something that God created and then entrapped man in."

Did God Create Evil? | thebereancall.org

 

[ForeverFaithful]

How do you as a Christian deal with Yahweh of the OT? Yahweh was more vengeful and full of wrath kind of God.

You go from an eye for an eye to forgiveness.
I can kind of understand promoting Christ as God, makes a more compassionate God than Yahweh in general. Always seemed a striking dissimilarity between the OT and NT Gods.

Oh please, People of the Old Testament where more sinful then some of America's worst criminals, including much of Israel, whom by grace was choosen

People often forget when things like the Babylonian Exile or the Flood happend God gave over a century of warning and people showed no shame, God sent Lot in Sodom and Gommorah and the turned death ears,

Read it as written

 

[Nakosis]

Oh please, People of the Old Testament where more sinful then some of America's worst criminals, including much of Israel, whom by grace was choosen

People often forget when things like the Babylonian Exile or the Flood happend God gave over a century of warning and people showed no shame, God sent Lot in Sodom and Gommorah and the turned death ears,

Read it as written

Whereas Jesus taught turn the other cheek.