Will God fall?

[fallen angel zar'roc]

I posted this on another forum and I'm trying get a range of opions so.
I have been think about Lucifer's rebellion and I got to thinking was this doomed from the start? I think God can be brought down by Lucifer but if not then we will all fall on judgement day. So what do the rest of you guys think.
Note the only answers I'm seeking are from other Luciferians.

 

[wednesday]

That battle of Good vs. Evil will continue for the rest of time. As in all fictional stories the Good guys always have a way of wrestling back the advantage.
Theoretically Luficer will tempt mutiny among the angels, but do you seriously think all the world can turn evil?

 

[fallen angel zar'roc]

Lucifer is not evil to me, god is the evil one. So to me if we lose then god's evil will take the world. Here is a quote from Revelation of Lucifer the Divine. " The book of Revelation is the not divine Revelation of
God, but rather the greatest of false prophecies.
The Dragon, the ancient dragon that gives power unto the second, is
Judaism—the religion of Abraham and Moses. The Beast, the lamb
that is slain but rises again, is Christianity—the religion of the
resurrection of the Christ. The False Prophet, the one who is the last to
be given power and is the descendant of the others, is Islam—the religion of the prophet Muhammad." This was said by Beelzebub.

 

[Troublemane]

Lucifer is not evil to me, god is the evil one. So to me if we lose then god's evil will take the world. Here is a quote from Revelation of Lucifer the Divine. " The book of Revelation is the not divine Revelation of
God, but rather the greatest of false prophecies.
The Dragon, the ancient dragon that gives power unto the second, is
Judaism—the religion of Abraham and Moses. The Beast, the lamb
that is slain but rises again, is Christianity—the religion of the
resurrection of the Christ. The False Prophet, the one who is the last to
be given power and is the descendant of the others, is Islam—the religion of the prophet Muhammad." This was said by Beelzebub.

wow, that certainly is an interesting take on the apocalypse. i had heard the comparison between jesus and dracula before, but this one is fascinating!:angel2:

 

[fallen angel zar'roc]

dracula?

 

[Mr. Hair]

The Dragon, the ancient dragon that gives power unto the second,

This line really rather interests me, given the context. Does this revelation make use of or reference to any other dragonical (dragonesque? dragontastic?) symbolism?

(Oh, and I'm sorry to derail your thread; obviously I can't attempt an answer to the OP. If you want, I'll retract this post forthwith!)

 

[fallen angel zar'roc]

It is symbolism for Judaism.
and I more than happy to answer any question with Luciferianism

 

[Mr. Hair]

It is symbolism for Judaism.

*guesses that that means no*

*thanks zar'roc for his answer*

------

Do you know why the 'ancient dragon' is used to symbolise Judaism? It's just that from what I've read of its mythological connotations, it seems to be quite a fascinating 'choice' to have made.

(To wit, the 'ancient dragon' (sometimes cast as a 'leviathan') often represents the unformed and chaotic, and frequently is depicted as having been slain (sometimes repeatedly) to strengthen/purify creation during the beginning or 'sacred time' of existence. It is 'the Primeval one', and is the most fevered nemesis of cosmic order and the 'rightful' way of life. A good example of this type of myth is Canaanite story of the slaying of the seven-headed dragon Lotan by Baal, and thus preventing the world from becoming 'unrooted', but it tends to be present in some form throughout most mythological systems and remains an interestingly prevalent symbol even to this day)

'Tis probably a mere coincidence, but it caught my eye.

 

[fallen angel zar'roc]

I'm not completly sure why,but the use symbols from each religion that are greatly fear the dragon of Judaism, the Beast of christianity, and the The False Prophet of Islam. He is trying to show that what most consider good is in fact evil.

 

[3.14]

only thing i need to know is if the devil wins will he lower taxes yes or no

 

[Ashley-Yin]

Hey fellow rebels.
im very interested in Lucifer
a few q's and stuff

this might be a muddled

i believe that Satan and Lucifer are separate beings and it seems to me there where two events
firstly Satan gives our ancesters a mind of their own and gets punished for it(and is now under some sort of control) where as Lucifer wasn't alone he/she (i dont know) was backed up by thousands/millions? of other angels so just gets forced out by god and his angels all powers and will in tact.
how am i doing?

i guess first off im just interested to know how the story goes
the identity of satan
who is jesus to you
and what you think of other religions in particular buddhism
and what do you make of lillith(first wife of adam who refused to be benief her husband)

thanks

 

[Heneni]

Hello fallen angel!

Do you think that reconiliation between god and satan is possible, that way neither will fall?

Heneni

 

[fallen angel zar'roc]

Hey fellow rebels.
im very interested in Lucifer
a few q's and stuff

this might be a muddled

i believe that Satan and Lucifer are separate beings and it seems to me there where two events
firstly Satan gives our ancesters a mind of their own and gets punished for it(and is now under some sort of control) where as Lucifer wasn't alone he/she (i dont know) was backed up by thousands/millions? of other angels so just gets forced out by god and his angels all powers and will in tact.
how am i doing?

i guess first off im just interested to know how the story goes
the identity of satan
who is jesus to you
and what you think of other religions in particular buddhism
and what do you make of lillith(first wife of adam who refused to be benief her husband)

thanks

Well from what I have read it was Lucifer who gave humans their free will not satan, and it was millions of angels that backed Lucifer in his fights against god. Satan is a fallen angel like all those who fought against god and follows Lucifer, Jesus is Lucifers younger brother. I have not studied much it to buddhism, so I can't tell you. Lillith is on nethier god's or Lucifer's side, she seems to do as she pleases.

 

[fallen angel zar'roc]

Hello fallen angel!

Do you think that reconiliation between god and satan is possible, that way neither will fall?

Heneni

Well since Satan only follows Lucifer whose pride will not allow him to bow or reconcile with god, no not really.

 

[Darkness]

firstly Satan gives our ancesters a mind of their own and gets punished for it(and is now under some sort of control) where as Lucifer wasn't alone he/she (i dont know) was backed up by thousands/millions? of other angels so just gets forced out by god and his angels all powers and will in tact.

Lucifer was the first to rebel. Satan follows him and is his general and second in command. Lucifer and Satan descended from Heaven to free Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden. After this act of disobedience, a third of the angels sided with Lucifer and fought against God. They were cast out of Heaven to the Earth and eventually had to seek refuge in Hell.

The First Prometheus was Lucifer, the Bringer of Light. It was he
who gave mankind the gift of fire and made him lord of the animals,
and lord of the temporal world. The mastery of fire represented many
things, for it was the first spark of intellect—man’s ability to reason and
speak in tongues. With that fire, men could make tools and
communicate. It gave mankind the ability to create and build ever
greater and larger constructs—arching towers, civilizations, and
philosophies that could reach even the heavens.

The Second Prometheus was Satan, the Great Adversary. It was he
who gave mankind the gift of wisdom—the knowledge of good and
evil—in the Garden of Eden. Man’s two gifts of intellect and wisdom
made them almost the equals of gods, but they still lacked the last
element required. However, it was not the role of the serpent in giving
mankind this final gift. That role falls upon the Third Prometheus.
The Third Prometheus is the one that some will rightly call the
Antichrist. It will be the Third who will give mankind what has long
been denied to him, the final key to godhood.

The gift of eternal life.

That day has begun. The secrets of the great tree of life have been
revealed. Its roots and spiraling helix twist and coil around the greedy
souls of men. Its branches and leaves reach out toward the heavens,
seeking to become gods. The time has now come when men will seek
death, but will not find it—that men will desire death, but death will
flee from them.

Do you think that reconiliation between god and satan is possible, that way neither will fall?

Until God repents for being such a sadistic control-freak, Lucifer will fight him.

“Our Father has asked that you return.”
Lucifer was silent.
“Not a second goes by without Father wishing that you were back
home. You have split our family in two. You have brought misery upon
our household. Please Lucifer. Please. Come back.”
Lucifer screamed, his eyes afire, “For the third and last time, NO! I
will not go back! Things will never be the same as they once were!
Those are all just lies! This conversation is over, sister!”

 

[Heneni]

As long as satan is rebelling god is still on top.You dont rebel, unless there is still someone else calling the shots. If you are the one calling the shots and you rebel, youd be more like a lunatic.

And since satan is still rebelling, god is not falling soon. And God should not fall since he is the one that gives life to all. If he falls so will everything else and satan too!

It does not make sense for satan to offer freedom, since he himself is not free. Darkness says that satan came to set adam and eve free, while he himself was finding refuge in hell. Thats like the prisoner telling the free man, come on over here, i can offer you freedom. In hell you can do anything you want, accept leave.

This earth is not his, nothing in the universe is his. So even if he sets you free, where are you going to go?

What he offers is freedom from god, and the freedom to pack up your stuff and be a nomad for the rest of your life. Thats not freedom!

Only someone that is really free can offer freedom. Satan has no land, no place of his own, and only as much freedom as God allows him.

Satan can not offer eternal life, since his own life comes from god.

Heneni

 

[Darkness]

Where to begin?

It does not make sense for satan to offer freedom, since he himself is not free. Darkness says that satan came to set adam and eve free, while he himself was finding refuge in hell. Thats like the prisoner telling the free man, come on over here, i can offer you freedom. In hell you can do anything you want, accept leave.

"Stone walls do not a prison make, nor iron bars a cage."

Satan offers an internal freedom.

All is not lost--the unconquerable will,
And study of revenge, immortal hate,
And courage never to submit or yield:
And what is else not to be overcome?

What he offers is freedom from god, and the freedom to pack up your stuff and be a nomad for the rest of your life. Thats not freedom!

And signing forced Hallelujahs to a narcissistic God is?

Satan can not offer eternal life, since his own life comes from god.

Satan never pretends to offer eternal life. We do not fight against God because we believe we will inherit a kingdom or because we believe in a happy, fairytale ending. You are mistaken! We fight because it is the right thing to do. I ask you, if you were a Polish soldier in August of 1939, who could gaze into the future and learned that Adolf Hitler would ultimately take over the world, would you submit to his will and join the Third Reich? Or would you still defy the tyrant because it is right?

 

[Heneni]

Hello darkness

You say that Satan never offers eternal life....instead

Satan offers an internal freedom.

but before you said...

The Third Prometheus is the one that some will rightly call the
Antichrist. It will be the Third who will give mankind what has long
been denied to him, the final key to godhood.

The gift of eternal life.

If Satan give us internal freedom, then what does that mean to you? Try to be specific as possible.

I don't sing hallelujah songs to someone I don't like, so its no problem to me.

The problem is that humans are already free from the control of god, you don't have to love him if you don't want to...and just take a look around what people do without god instigating anything.:sarcastic Humans make this place a dump and then the same people who want to be free from gods control turn around and with fists in the air accuse him of doing NOTHING! He is not going to do something...humans are free. Its not doing us any good though is it? If satan offers freedom, he isnt offering anything humans dont already have.

As ive said before satan offers you freedom from the control of God, while neglecting to give you the small print...you are free to do what you want...but you are not free to leave.


Heneni

 

[Darkness]

To Heneni: Sorry for the confusion. The italicized text that contradicted my previous statement was from a book. I do not agree with everything written in that book. Besides, you would have to know the context of that and how truthful the speaker is being and... it is a whole mess. :sorry1:

If Satan give us internal freedom, then what does that mean to you? Try to be specific as possible.

Simply, it means that even though your body may be constrained by an outside force, your will still hopes and acts as it wishes to i.e. you still struggle against an unbeatable force. For example, I would still like to spit in God's face, if He sends His daughters and sons to Hell, even though I cannot destroy Him. I still strive to destroy Him.

"So perfect a word – Hell. It has a way of sticking in your throat. You cannot bury it no matter how hard you try. It will always be in the corner of your mind taunting and mocking you, for it knows that one day it will consume you… consume you unless fall down on your knees and utterly give yourself as a slave to that all too distant Father. Give away everything that makes you, you. Hand that sacred crown, which should be upon your head, to a giant arm reaching down from the clouds. What choice do you have? A flaming sword is placed at your throat, ready to devour you with its razor sharp teeth. You are forced, compelled, to give up yourself. We are never truly free. We always have His chains wrapped around our bodies, constricting our every movement. We are slaves to His cosmic will. Unless… unless we dethrone self-preservation from its kingly pedestal. Cast it to the ground and embrace the higher ideals." -- Belial (A book in progress, which I am working on).

The problem is that humans are already free from the control of god, you don't have to love him if you don't want to...and just take a look around what people do without god instigating anything.:sarcastic Humans make this place a dump and then the same people who want to be free from gods control turn around and with fists in the air accuse him of doing NOTHING! He is not going to do something...humans are free. Its not doing us any good though is it? If satan offers freedom, he isnt offering anything humans dont already have.

"God says do what you wish, but make the wrong choice and you will be tortured for eternity in Hell. That's not free will. It's like a man telling his girlfriend, do what you wish, but if you choose to leave me, I will track you down and blow your brains out. When a man says this we call him a psychopath. When god says the same we call him "loving" and build churches in his honor." -- William C. Easttom II

What a perfect quote.

As ive said before satan offers you freedom from the control of God, while neglecting to give you the small print...you are free to do what you want...but you are not free to leave.

Satan is not the one stopping you. It is God.

 

[Heneni]

"God says do what you wish, but make the wrong choice and you will be tortured for eternity in Hell. That's not free will. It's like a man telling his girlfriend, do what you wish, but if you choose to leave me, I will track you down and blow your brains out. When a man says this we call him a psychopath. When god says the same we call him "loving" and build churches in his honor." -- William C. Easttom II

LOL Darkness you have your facts a bit twisted up.

You are on this earth exactly because you didnt want to submit to gods will, you wanted to be free from him. So here you are...excercising your free will. He gave you what you wanted! Is he knocking at your door trying to kill you for using your free will?

So then...how has humanity faired with free will, and freedom from the control of god? Looks to me, like we are not doing a good job of looking after ourselves, our families or our planet.

This here earth is hell. It could have been heaven. It was like heaven. It was perfect in every way. Now its on a path of destruction. God gave you this planet in a spick and span condition, and what has our free will done with it? Messed it up.

This place is hell. This earth is what people have made into a very nasty place to live in. And it is becoming nastier by the minute.

Let me explain something. You are here to do what you want, free to get up to all sorts of stuff that pleases you. BUT...since you wanted free will, you are also responsible for the use of it. NOT GOD. Free will means you make the choices, and you have to live with the consequences. But man, want to be free, but they also want to be free from the consequences of their choices. And im afraid that is not part of the deal. You want to rule yourself....then you have to take the flack when it comes your way. And so god isnt sending anyone to hell, you are here already. The mess we have created will be our responsibility to fix. And do you think we can fix it? I dont think so. Humans have faired terribly with free will.

Christians submit to gods will. That way, they are under his rule. And that means freedom. Freedom from free will, means you are free to live and work in the kingdom of god, knowing that he looks after you, he takes care of you, and he knows what is best for you, since he created you after all. Christians also have free will, but they give it up, in order to submit unders gods will. And since the world has proven to me significantly, that human free will, results in nothing but confusion,hatred, greed and malice...id much happier submit to gods.

Why did god banish satan from heaven? Because he got upset that someone would actually stand up to him? NO. God has no ego problem. He sent satan here and you, to have the chance to prove to yourself that you can do just fine without god. Well are we doing fine? How long will this planet hold up?. How long before you become the victim of crime, how long before humans whipe each other out?

So, for you darkness, there is only one place. This earth. As long as you want your own free will, this place is your home. You will always come back here, even if you die. This place is where you excercise your free will in, its the place you have to reap what you sowed. And you wanted it. Hell, is what humans have created and what Jesus came to save us from. And if it wasnt for him, id be one of those free willers...messing up a perfect planet and a once perfect world. Im big enough to realise that it is better for me to acknowledge that gods way is the best way. If I rebel against his way, im shooting myself in the foot, and frankly im less well off.

If you want to excersice your free will and the next person wants to excercise their free will, at some point they is going to be a conflict of interest. Free will says...me first and you second. If you have struggled to get yourself free from god, you are hardly going to willingly submit to someone elses free will!

There is still a certain amount of order on this planet, only because the Holy Spirit and the children of god is still here. But when the HS and the children of god leaves, this here will become a place of anarchy, each person turning into a wolf, lawless, loveless, and mercyless humans, trying to live with each other. Good luck to you all. But as far as I can tell, god is not sending anyone to hell, you are in hell already. The question is...how do you get out of it? You dont have to leave of course, but that will leave you with a couple of billion people who wants what they want and if you stand in their way, its going to get nasty for you.

There is no freedom without control Darkness. There is only freedom to walk in the park, when you know that the police is doing their job.

There is always someone else out there, who will go to any extreme to get what they want, and dont give a hoot about what you want. And you have sided with Satan...do you think he cares about what you want? LOL.....God isnt playing us like pawns. Satan is.

Heneni