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Will Hillary's email problem be her undoing?

Will Hillary's email issue eventually cost her bid for the Presidency?


  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .

Underhill

Well-Known Member
Everyone lays out a clear case for what they advocate.
They cull comporting facts & factoids, & leave out the rest.
Here's a more balanced view....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_email_controversy

Why is it that Democrats think that they're exceptional, ie, that it's wrong when the opposition plays politics against them?

Because we are talking about an investigation.

The kind of investigation that never happened when Bush and Cheney took us into Iraq. The type of investigation that has been brought against the Clintons how many dozens of times with no result other than a mis-handled blowjob and tens of millions of wasted dollars. The kind of investigation that went on for Benghazi how many times with no result? At what point does it become absurd and not just, 'oh.. look at the cute politicians at it again'.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Because we are talking about an investigation.
The kind of investigation that never happened when Bush and Cheney took us into Iraq. The type of investigation that has been brought against the Clintons how many dozens of times with no result other than a mis-handled blowjob and tens of millions of wasted dollars. The kind of investigation that went on for Benghazi how many times with no result? At what point does it become absurd and not just, 'oh.. look at the cute politicians at it again'.
Democrats see only the tryst, & fail to see Bill's felonies.
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
Democrats see only the tryst, & fail to see Bill's felonies.

Plural? He lied about a question about sex.

So far as I know that is the only thing he did wrong. It was monumentally stupid.

But by comparison to Reagan and his dealings with Iran, or GWB and his war, this seems almost inconsequential. But who is going down in history as a shady character? It's absurd.

I have no problem admitting what Clinton did was stupid and illegal. But his blowjob, his wife's email and an attack on an embassy (who knows what Clinton was actually supposed to be guilty of) all garnered more investigations (at costs well over 100 million dollars combined) than a war fought under false pretenses or even the arms sales to Iran. What is up with that? You think that's just politics as usual?

edit: my bad. I looked up the cost for the Iran-Contra investigation and it was roughly the same cost as the investigation that led to Clintons blowjob question. Still absurd if you ask me.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
The main issue with her email problem in at least two instances are:
1. She said she turned over all work related emails to the State Dept. This has found to be false
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/26/us-usa-election-clinton-idUSKCN0RP29820150926
2. She had classified documents on her server
http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...n-hillary-clintons-server-and-still-counting/

Yes they were not so marked, but she should have known they were of a classified nature either that or she does not have the knowledge of what should be considered classified information. Is this just outright stupidity or more likely "I'm a Clinton, and we make our own rules".
How say you on this?
http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-...f-classified-benghazi-emails-four-months-ago/
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Which felonies? And while you're at it, does anything Bill did excuse what Bush and Cheney, especially the latter, appears to have done?
I don't excuse any crimes committed by Bush or Cheney.
Remember that I'm neither Dem nor Pub, so I can advocate prosecuting both of them.
The felony question I answered in response to your other post.....lying to a grand jury & suborning perjury.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Plural? He lied about a question about sex.
Lying to a grand jury (about anything) is a crime, as is suborning perjury.
The defense that it was only about a tryst is not exculpatory.
I looked up the cost for the Iran-Contra investigation and it was roughly the same cost as the investigation that led to Clintons blowjob question. Still absurd if you ask me.
I blame Reagan for even worse, eg, arming Iraqis with WMDs.
But sins of politicians in one party do not excuse criminal behavior by those in the other party.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I don't excuse any crimes committed by Bush or Cheney.
Remember that I'm neither Dem nor Pub, so I can advocate prosecuting both of them.
The felony question I answered in response to your other post.....lying to a grand jury & suborning perjury.
And I just responded to that, so you might check it out.
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
Lying to a grand jury (about anything) is a crime, as is suborning perjury.
The defense that it was only about a tryst is not exculpatory.

I blame Reagan for even worse, eg, arming Iraqis with WMDs.
But sins of politicians in one party do not excuse criminal behavior by those in the other party.

I'm not excusing anything by anyone. I'm simply saying that there is no sense of perspective. Actions that lead to the death of thousands as apposed to a guy lying about a blow job. Not even close to the same league. One is labeled a hero, the other a scoundrel.

And the same garbage is being laid on Hillary. At worst, she may have used a bit of bad judgement, and even that is debatable. But she is being crucified for it. Meanwhile you have people on the other side of the ticket who, I would bet large sums of money, have done worse. Nobody is even looking at them. It isn't even remotely close to balanced.

The irony is that Democrats are much better at the day to day image stuff. But when it comes to mud slinging, they are outmatched at every level.
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
The main issue with her email problem in at least two instances are:
1. She said she turned over all work related emails to the State Dept. This has found to be false
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/26/us-usa-election-clinton-idUSKCN0RP29820150926
2. She had classified documents on her server
http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...n-hillary-clintons-server-and-still-counting/

Yes they were not so marked, but she should have known they were of a classified nature either that or she does not have the knowledge of what should be considered classified information. Is this just outright stupidity or more likely "I'm a Clinton, and we make our own rules".
How say you on this?
http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-...f-classified-benghazi-emails-four-months-ago/

Neither of which were illegal.

She should have handed over the emails, but that proves nothing other than that she (or her staff) missed some. There is no evidence that any of the missing emails were controversial or scandalous in any way.

And classified documents on her server were not illegal at the time. Congress passed a law saying it is illegal now, but it wasn't then.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I'm not excusing anything by anyone. I'm simply saying that there is no sense of perspective. Actions that lead to the death of thousands as apposed to a guy lying about a blow job. Not even close to the same league. One is labeled a hero, the other a scoundrel.
I agree. Clinton didn't have to turn an illicit boink into a federal crime, but he did.
And back to where this started, the Clintons should take responsibility for debacles they themselves set in motion, & not blame a conspiracy by those who responded predictably.
And the same garbage is being laid on Hillary. At worst, she may have used a bit of bad judgement, and even that is debatable. But she is being crucified for it. Meanwhile you have people on the other side of the ticket who, I would bet large sums of money, have done worse. Nobody is even looking at them. It isn't even remotely close to balanced.
The irony is that Democrats are much better at the day to day image stuff. But when it comes to mud slinging, they are outmatched at every level.
They hand the mud to their opponents, & then complain when it's returned.
 

Saint_of_Me

Member
In light of the ongoing revelation about what was found and what could be found on her serve will this be Hillary's albatross ? What say you.


I hope so. LOL.

I despise her. Oh, not that she's all that bad of a person--well, wait a minute, maybe she is a fairly evil, lying, manipulative, B-word. But it's just that, like her husband--whom, BTW, was a far more talented of a politician--she will do and say ANYthing in order to get your vote. For her, polling is Required, and Integrity is Optional.

So I am hoping that the email scandal, along with Benghazi, will be enough to give the DNC nod to Joe Biden instead of her. I also hope Biden runs, I think he will, and has just been biding his time (hey! good pun) till the time is right and Hillary's approval rating is tanking. I am guessing that in, oh, about a month or so Biden will announce his candidacy.

Biden will then have a good shot at POTUS if the GOP doesn't get their act together and unite behind one or two guys. No matter who their final pick is, and it will most likely either be, amazingly, Donald Trump, or Jeb Bush, they just might lose to Biden in the general election, since I think he has a better chance to snag some of the moderate independent votes.

Hillary, though, if she survives Email-Gate and Benghazi, could also snag those populist moderate voters and thus defeat the GOP candidate in the presidential election. This scares me (LOL) and is another reason I hope that stuff is her undoing.
 

Saint_of_Me

Member
The only people that seem to care about this are the republicans. The democrats don't usually see it as such a huge issue so the primary will still pretty clearly be Hillary. However there is a few new prospects such as Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders could be the new evolution of the democratic party where they do actually move in to Democratic socialism. I would personally like to see two or three huge splits in both parties. Then we could have several smaller parties with runoff style voting.

It would be neat to see
Democratic Socialist party
Democratic party
Republican party
Libertarian party
Tea Party.

But yeah Bernie Sanders is getting a lot of news and support recently. It wouldn't surprise me if it was a Trump Vs Sanders presidential election. At least at this point it didn't matter who won we would see something different.


Sanders? LOL. Whatta ya been smokin', bro?

If email-gate and Benghazi are indeed enough fodder to undo Hillary, then I am pretty sure the DNC POTUS candidate nod will go to Joe Biden, should he decide to run, and I think he will. He's just been sitting back and playing it cool for awhile, waiting for Hillary's numbers to tank. Mark this: Biden announces he is running in about, oh, four to six weeks.
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
I agree. Clinton didn't have to turn an illicit boink into a federal crime, but he did.
And back to where this started, the Clintons should take responsibility for debacles they themselves set in motion, & not blame a conspiracy by those who responded predictably.

So you are saying they should come clean about the 15 investigations where it was found every time they did nothing illegal.

They hand the mud to their opponents, & then complain when it's returned.

So how did Hillary hand the republicans mud on this email scandal? From what I have read Condi Rice rarely used email, Colin Powell was a former general accustomed to using federal email for everything state related.

This is a new problem which only now has been addressed within the legal system. This is not a case where she messed up and deserves punishment. It's a case where there was no policy, now there is.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
So you are saying they should come clean about the 15 investigations where it was found every time they did nothing illegal.
That's getting into specific recommendations which are just too micro-management for me to comment upon.
So how did Hillary hand the republicans mud on this email scandal? From what I have read Condi Rice rarely used email, Colin Powell was a former general accustomed to using federal email for everything state related.
By her use of email, which was exacerbated by her ham fisted handling of the controversy.
The others would likely suffer from their sins if the were running for prez.
This is a new problem which only now has been addressed within the legal system. This is not a case where she messed up and deserves punishment. It's a case where there was no policy, now there is.
New problems come up all the time.
I'm not saying any of this is fair or significant...only that it's they game they chose to play.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I've seen that smearing is a bi-partisan tactic.
Perhaps it's easier for me to see because I don't like either party in the Big Two.
I see failings & merit in both.

Educate me a bit here.
From "Clinton boinks a secretary" to "Swiftboat" to "the birthers" to "Benghazi", I see a long string of partisan smears from the Republican Party. But I cannot think of a comparable smear campaign from the Democratic party hacks.
Please tell me about them.
Tom
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I'm still wondering why people are hounding Hillary over this, but yet no one is nailing Colin Powell to the wall over doing the same exact thing.
It's pretty bad when controversies have become a partisan issue.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Educate me a bit here.
From "Clinton boinks a secretary" to "Swiftboat" to "the birthers" to "Benghazi", I see a long string of partisan smears from the Republican Party. But I cannot think of a comparable smear campaign from the Democratic party hacks.
Please tell me about them.
Tom
Every party partisan feels that an attack upon them is a "smear".
But attacks on the other party are all legitimate.
Partisan attacks will vary in how much meat they have, but all are politically motivated when pursued by the opposition.

But I can help your memory.....
- Watergate
- GW Bush National Guard service
- Sexist attacks on Sarah Palin (remember Democratic ally Larry Flynt's movie "Nail'n Palin") appear worse than any Democrat in memory has endured.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/11/beck.palin/index.html?iref=24hours
- Chris Christie & the Fort Lee lane closure
- John McCain citizenship
- Reagan is dumb
- Clarence Thomas hearings

Of course, Democrats will say that these weren't smear campaigns....they're about truth & justice!
I'm sure Republicans say the same thing about their attacks on Dems.
 
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Underhill

Well-Known Member
Every party partisan feels that an attack upon them is a "smear".
But attacks on the other party are all legitimate.
Partisan attacks will vary in how much meat they have, but all are politically motivated when pursued by the opposition.

But I can help your memory.....
- Watergate
- GW Bush National Guard service
- Sexist attacks on Sarah Palin (remember Democratic ally Larry Flynt's movie "Nail'n Palin") appear worse than any Democrat in memory has endured.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/11/beck.palin/index.html?iref=24hours
- Chris Christie & the Fort Lee lane closure
- John McCain citizenship
- Reagan is dumb
- Clarence Thomas hearings

Of course, Democrats will say that these weren't smear campaigns....they're about truth & justice!
I'm sure Republicans say the same thing about their attacks on Dems.

Okay, but looking at that list there are some legitimate differences.

-Watergate, involved definitive illegal activities.
-GWB National Guard Service, was a blip on the radar, but it was a media attack. It was largely in response to the Swiftboaters destruction of Kerry.
-Sarah Palin, Didn't even know about this at the time. No idea how bad it was politically. Flynt is a scum bag. What does his profiteering in the porn industry have to do with political smeer campaigns? I suppose you could call Flynn the media, but it's a stretch.
-Chris Christie, was a local issue. Probably the closest thing to a Clinton-esque scandal on the list. But it happened once. And his staffers were found guilty of wrongdoing. So there is a legitimate complaint.
-McCain, legitimate question... for idiots who don't understand the law. But unlike Obama, it was resolved by a few news stories explaining the situation.
-Reagan, a bit before my time. This sounds like a media attack. I can't imagine the FBI investigating his intelligence.
-Clarence Thomas, these I remember. And I remember it being a legitimate complaint about unlawful conduct. There was no investigation, it came out in his confirmation hearings.

I don't see any of them as the same. A laundry list of federal investigations, at a cost of close to a hundred million, spearheaded by republicans, to destroy the credibility of the opposition.

Most of these were media stories. The only two that involved investigations were Watergate and Chris Christie. The Christie scandal definitely had legitimate complaints at it's core. Staffers were found guilty. This was not a case of speculation, the rules were broken, the only question was whether Chistie knew about it. Watergate had eyewitness testimony to the fact that they broke the law. Something they have never had with the Clintons. Every investigation I can think of was brought on by speculation of what people (usually on the right) thought might be going on.

I know you are going to say, "see I told you, you don't see these as a smear". But some of them I do. The difference is clear. I still can't think of a single case on the right where multiple investigations have been conducted on so many fronts with so little evidence. The media goes after everyone. That much is true. But this goes way beyond that.
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Okay, but looking at that list there are some legitimate differences.

-Watergate, involved definitive illegal activities.
-GWB National Guard Service, was a blip on the radar, but it was a media attack.
-Sarah Palin, Didn't even know about this at the time. No idea how bad it was politically. Flynt is a scum bag. What does his profiteering in the porn industry have to do with political smeer campaigns? I suppose you could call Flynn the media, but it's a stretch.
-Chris Christie, was a local issue. Probably the closest thing to a Clinton-esque scandal on the list. But it happened once. And his staffers were found guilty of wrongdoing. So there is a legitimate complaint.
-McCain, legitimate question... for idiots who don't understand the law. But unlike Obama, it was resolved by a few news stories explaining the situation.
-Reagan, a bit before my time. This sounds like a media attack. I can't imagine the FBI investigating his intelligence.
-Clarence Thomas, these I remember. And I remember it being a legitimate complaint about unlawful conduct. There was no investigation, it came out in his confirmation hearings.

I don't see any of them as the same. A laundry list of federal investigations, at a cost of close to a hundred million, spearheaded by republicans, to destroy the credibility of the opposition.

Most of these are media stories. The only two that involved investigations were Watergate and Chris Christie. The Christie scandal definitely had legitimate complaints at it's core. Staffers were found guilty. This was not a case of speculation, the rules were broken, the only question was whether Chistie knew about it. Watergate had eyewitness testimony to the fact that they broke the law. Something they have never had with the Clintons. Every investigation I can think of was brought on by speculation of what people (usually on the right) thought might be going on.

I know you are going to say, "see I told you, you don't see these as a smear". But some of them I do. The difference is clear. I still can't think of a single case on the right where multiple investigations have been conducted on so many fronts with so little evidence. The media goes after everyone. That much is true. But this goes way beyond that.
This is a lot to read, but skimming it I find that it's the same old Democrats-are-innocent-victims-of-right-wing-conspiracies-but-Republicans-are-evil partisanship.
In particular, I find it amazing that the ostensibly "feminist" Democrats will sling the most sexist sleaze so long as the recipient is on the other side.
Dems & Pubs.....both are immature self-centered bickering children.
 
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