Will someone please talk to me?

[savagewind]

What I'm saying is they all made mistakes concerning God's Nature, they also must have made OTHER mistakes and the Watchtower adopted them. I know that for sure.

The other mistakes were not imnportant to correct, I guess. Some leader you got there.

They corrected only the ones that would make them stand out as trouble makers.

There is actually evidence that they needed more publicity so then they introduced another "new light" about blood, I think it was. Yes blood.

 

[oldbadger]

That's not what he meant by predicting the end, this is what he thought would happen:
1874 to 1914 was described as the greatest time of trouble in human history, with 1914 to be the conclusion of the Last Days. Armageddon would begin, resulting in the wholesale destruction of all government and religion. Russell and his followers were to be raised to heaven and Jesus Kingdom would then be established as paradise on earth.

"Now, in view of recent labor troubles and threatened anarchy, our readers are writing to know if there may not be a mistake in the 1914 date. They do not see how present conditions can hold out so long under the strain. We see no reason for changing the figures - nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." Zion's Watch Tower 1894 Jul 15 p.226
The following quotes during the lead up to 1914 show there could be no doubt as to what followers of the Watchtower Society were to expect.

Armageddon ended

"… the battle of the great day of God Almighty … The date of the close of that "battle" is definitely marked in Scripture as October 1914. It is already in progress, its beginning dating from October, 1874." Zion's Watch Tower 1892 Jan 15 p.23

End of the "Time of Trouble"

"The seventh trumpet sounds from Aug. 1840, until "the time of trouble," or day of wrath is ended. Hence, it doubtless ends with the times of the Gentiles, and this forty years of conquest; and therefore, sounds until A. D. 1914; at the end of which, Babylon the great, will have fallen, and the "dragon" be bound: that is, the nations will be subdued, and "the prince of this world cast out."" Three Worlds and the Harvest of This World (Barbour & Russell, 1877) p.27

Religion Utterly Destroyed

"The seventh trumpet sounds from Aug. 1840, until "the time of trouble," or day of wrath is ended. Hence, it doubtless ends with the times of the Gentiles, and this forty years of conquest; and therefore, sounds until A. D. 1914; at the end of which, Babylon the great, will have fallen, and the "dragon" be bound: that is, the nations will be subdued, and "the prince of this world cast out."" Three Worlds and The Harvest of This World (1877) p.143
"A.D. 33, to A.D. 70 was 36 ½ years; and so from A.D. 1878 to the end of A.D. 1914 is 36 ½ years. And, with the end of A.D. 1914, what God calls Babylon, and what men call Christendom, will have passed away, as already shown in prophecy." Studies In the Scriptures - Thy Kingdom Come (1891) p.153
"October, 1914, will witness the full end of Babylon, "as a great millstone cast into the sea," utterly destroyed as a system." Watch Tower 1911 Jun 15 p.190
Harvest work complete

"HARVEST" is a term which gives a general idea as to what work should be expected to transpire between the dates 1874 and 1914." Studies In the Scriptures - Thy Kingdom Come p.135
"These, already examined, show that the close of 1874 marked the beginning, as the close of 1914 will mark the end, of this 40 years of harvest; while all the minutiae of the order and work of this harvest were portrayed in that of the Jewish age, its type." Studies In the Scriptures - Thy Kingdom Come pp.149-150

Governments overthrown

Studies In the Scriptures Series II - The Time Is at Hand (1889) pp.77, 78 claimed seven things would happen in 1914. Not one of these eventuated. The following statements are extracted from that list;

1. "the disintegration of the rule of imperfect men. at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, "Thy Kingdom come," will begin to assume control, and that it will then shortly be "set up," or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions."
2. He whose right it is thus to take the dominion will then be present as earth's new Ruler; and not only so, but it will also prove that he will be present for a considerable period before that date;
3. the last member of the divinely recognized Church of Christ, the "royal priesthood," "the body of Christ," will beglorified with the Head;
4. Jerusalem shall no longer be trodden down
5. Israel's blindness will begin to be turned away
6. the great "time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation," will reach its culmination in a world-wide reign of anarchy
7. It will prove that before that date God's Kingdom, organized in power, will be in the earth and then smite and crush the Gentile image (Dan. 2:34)-and fully consume the power of these kings."

"True, it is expecting great things to claim, as we do, that within the coming twenty-six years all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved . In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished at the end of A. D. 1914 . Be not surprised, then, when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the "battle of the great day of God Almighty" (Rev. 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced. The gathering of the armies is plainly visible from the standpoint of God's Word." Studies In the Scriptures Series II - The Time Is At Hand (1889) pp.99, 101
"we have seen that God has a set time for every feature of his plan, and that we are even now in this "Day of Vengeance," which is a period of forty years; that it began in October, 1874, and will end in October, 1914 [very shortly]." Studies In the Scriptures Series IV - The Day of Vengeance -pp.546, 547
Jesus to start ruling the earth

SETTING UP THE EARTHLY GOVERNMENT ---- Not until the full end of Gentile Times (October, A.D. 1914) should we expect the earthly phase of God's Kingdom; for in giving a lease of dominion to the Gentiles until that date God made no mistake and his plans alter not. The earthly phase of the Kingdom of God when set up will be Israelitish; for such is God's engagement or covenant with Abraham and his natural seed. Even the chief favor, the spiritual Kingdom, was offered first to fleshly Israel, and would have been given to them if they had been ready at heart to receive it on the conditions attached to it-to suffer with Christ and afterward to be glorified with him." Studies In the Scriptures Series IV - The Day of Vengeance pp.624,625
Earthly Resurrection to occur

"And yet "Jerusalem must be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled;" hence, trodden down until A. D. 1914, when the day of wrath will be passed, and the resurrection and return of the "whole house of Israel" due." Three Worlds and The Harvest of This World (1877) p.166
"The beginning of the earthly phase of the Kingdom in the end of A.D. 1914 will, we understand, consist wholly of the resurrected holy ones of olden time-from John the Baptizer back to Abel-"Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and all the holy prophets." Studies In the Scriptures Series IV - The Day of Vengeance p.625
144,000 All Resurrected to Heaven

1908 edition Thy kingdom come page 228
The 144,000, also known as the "body of Christ" or "the saints", were to all be in heaven by 1914, prior to the completion of Armageddon.

"That the deliverance of the saints must take place some time before 1914 is manifest, since the deliverance of fleshly Israel, as we shall see, is appointed to take place at that time... Just how long before 1914 the last living members of the body of Christ will be glorified, was are not directly informed;..." Studies In the Scriptures - Thy Kingdom Come (1908 ed.) p.228

1914 - Failed Watchtower prophecy - Falsified History

Wow...... big post.

So......? So....... what?

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Wow...... big post.

So......? So....... what?

Well he never got anything right on the nose, that is the point.

 

[savagewind]

Wow...... big post.

So......? So....... what?

Her point is the people of the Watchtower obey the governing body like the governing body is Christ, but they have made many serious errors about a lot of things.

The JWs go door to door warning people about God's wrath. But the JWs must be warned also.

 

[savagewind]

With the internet the Watchtower Bible and Tract Socieity is reaping what they sowed.
They have been saying religion is false and whoever is with false religion when God judges the Earth will be killed. Now people are saying the Watchtower is also false. We are trained well to warn people. That's what we are doing.

 

[gilligan8914]

In this internet age, it is easy to look things up very quickly, but back at the turn of last century, research was arduous and time consuming. It took many years of research to come to conclusions and then to examine them further in the light of other scripture. Refining is a process, just as cleansing is.

We know that the great pyramids were constructed approx 2,500 years BCE, well before Abraham was even born (in 2018 BCE) and well before the Hebrews became a nation upon their release from slavery in 1513 BCE, so the pyramids could not have been constructed by the Hebrews.

The calculation for 1914 is demonstrated here....in case you are interested.

"Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses say that God’s Kingdom was established in 1914?
Two lines of evidence point to that year: (1) Bible chronology and (2) the events since 1914 in fulfillment of prophecy. Here we will consider the chronology. For fulfillment of prophecy, see the main heading “Last Days.”

Read Daniel 4:1-17. Verses 20-37 show that this prophecy had a fulfillment upon Nebuchadnezzar. But it also has a larger fulfillment. How do we know that? Verses 3 and 17 show that the dream that God gave to King Nebuchadnezzar deals with the Kingdom of God and God’s promise to give it “to the one whom he wants to . . . even the lowliest one of mankind.” The entire Bible shows that Jehovah’s purpose is for his own Son, Jesus Christ, to rule as His representative over mankind. (Psalm. 2:1-8; Dan. 7:13, 14; 1 Cor. 15:23-25; Rev. 11:15; 12:10) The Bible’s description of Jesus shows that he was indeed “the lowliest one of mankind.” (Phil. 2:7, 8; Matt. 11:28-30) The prophetic dream, then, points to the time when Jehovah would give rulership over mankind to his own Son.

What was to happen in the meantime? Rulership over mankind, as represented by the tree and its rootstock, would have “the heart of a beast.” (Dan. 4:16) The history of mankind would be dominated by governments that displayed the characteristics of wild beasts. In modern times, the bear is commonly used to represent Russia; the eagle, the United States; the lion, Britain; the dragon, China. The Bible also uses wild beasts as symbols of world governments and of the entire global system of human rulership under the influence of Satan. (Dan. 7:2-8, 17, 23; 8:20-22; Rev. 13:1, 2) As Jesus showed in his prophecy pointing to the conclusion of the system of things, Jerusalem would be “trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations” were fulfilled. (Luke 21:24) “Jerusalem” represented the Kingdom of God because its kings were said to sit on “the throne of the kingship of Jehovah.” (1 Chron. 28:4, 5; Matt. 5:34, 35) So, the Gentile governments, represented by wild beasts, would ‘trample’ on the right of God’s Kingdom to direct human affairs and would themselves hold sway under Satan’s control.—Compare Luke 4:5, 6.

For how long would such governments be permitted to exercise this control before Jehovah gave the Kingdom to Jesus Christ? Daniel 4:16 says “seven times” (“seven years,” AT and Mo, also JB footnote on verse 13). The Bible shows that in calculating prophetic time, a day is counted as a year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34) How many “days,” then, are involved? Revelation 11:2, 3 clearly states that 42 months (3 1/2 years) in that prophecy are counted as 1,260 days. Seven years would be twice that, or 2,520 days. Applying the “day for a year” rule would result in 2,520 years.
When did the counting of the “seven times” begin? After Zedekiah, the last king in the typical Kingdom of God, was removed from the throne in Jerusalem by the Babylonians. (Ezek. 21:25-27) Finally, by early October of 607 B.C.E. the last vestige of Jewish sovereignty was gone. By that time the Jewish governor, Gedaliah, who had been left in charge by the Babylonians, had been assassinated, and the remaining Jews had fled to Egypt. (Jeremiah, chapters 40-43) Reliable Bible chronology indicates that this took place 70 years before 537 B.C.E., the year in which the Jews returned from captivity; that is, it took place by early October of 607 B.C.E. (Jer. 29:10; Dan. 9:2; for further details, see the book “Let Your Kingdom Come,” pages 186-189.)
How, then, is the time calculated down to 1914? Counting 2,520 years from early October of 607 B.C.E. brings us to early October of 1914 C.E., as shown on the chart.

CALCULATING THE “SEVEN TIMES
“Seven times” = 7 X 360 = 2,520 years
A Biblical “time,” or year = 12 X 30 days = 360. (Rev. 11:2, 3; 12:6, 14)
In the fulfillment of the “seven times” each day equals one year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34)
Early October, 607 B.C.E., to December 31, 607 B.C.E.= 1/4 year
January 1, 606 B.C.E., to December 31, 1 B.C.E. = 606 years
January 1, 1 C.E., to December 31, 1913 = 1,913 years
January 1, 1914, to early October, 1914 = 3/4 year
Total: 2,520 years
What happened at that time? Jehovah entrusted rulership over mankind to his own Son, Jesus Christ, glorified in the heavens.—Dan. 7:13, 14.

Then why is there still so much wickedness on earth? After Christ was enthroned, Satan and his demons were hurled out of heaven and down to the earth. (Rev. 12:12) Christ as King did not immediately proceed to destroy all who refused to acknowledge Jehovah’s sovereignty and himself as the Messiah. Instead, as he had foretold, a global preaching work was to be done. (Matt. 24:14) As King he would direct a dividing of peoples of all nations, those proving to be righteous being granted the prospect of everlasting life, and the wicked being consigned to everlasting cutting-off in death. (Matt. 25:31-46) In the meantime, the very difficult conditions foretold for “the last days” would prevail. As shown under the heading “Last Days,” those events have been clearly in evidence since 1914. Before the last members of the generation that was alive in 1914 will have passed off the scene, all the things foretold will occur, including the “great tribulation” in which the present wicked world will end.—Matt. 24:21, 22, 34." (Information from Reasoning from the Scriptures WTBTS)

Wow. Talk about an imagination running wild!

 

[JayJayDee]

Did he? I'm not a JW, but, well, he got that just about bang on the nose, didn't he? A total World War, leading to European chaos and a Second World War, which lead to Worldwide financial meltdown over the following decades, which carries on descending even now, plus global climatic meltdown, and more.....

And he said the end would start in 1914? Bloody amazing.

Don't hold your breath. Live every day to the full. And prepare.....

Yes, Bible prophesy is amazing but often it is only with the benefit of hindsight that it's detail becomes apparent. Jesus said we would not know 'the day or the hour' when the kingdom would come. We know that is the case because we have hoped on a few occasions that a certain year may bring the kingdom's rule to suffering humanity. But never have we predicted a 'day or hour'.

Humans could not know about global war in advance; it had never happened before and there was no warning...but God knew and foretold it all through his word. He predicted the famine, the pestilence, the earthquakes, the increase in lawlessness and the love of the human race for one another cooling off in these last days. Read 2 Tim 3:1-5 and see how familiar it all is.....

"But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away."

The prophesy on the end of the present system of things is still in its fulfillment but the Bible Student's expectations back in the early days were a little off in the timing is all. It is not a false or failed prophesy, they just got the timing wrong. Just like the apostles who witnessed Jesus ascension to heaven asked him if he was 'restoring the kingdom to Israel at that time'? (Acts 1:6)

The kingdom has been held close in time by all generations simply because if we knew when it would come, we may have the wrong motive in serving God. Those who serve Jehovah with a cut off point, are really only serving themselves. Those who serve God out of love will keep on going despite disappointments and obstacles. Our service to God is a forever commitment, no matter how long it takes. The 'kingdom will come' and God's 'will can then be done on earth as it is in heaven'.

It was foretold that the light on the path would get brighter as Jehovah's day drew near and that has been the case. (Prov 4:18) We have seen many things already take place and only a few things are left. There is still room on board the 'ark' for all those who see the truth to heed the kingdom message.

 

[savagewind]

Jesus is the truth. Jehovah's Witnesses say they are "in the truth". They do not say they are in Jesus or that Jesus is in them.

Jesus said you must be born again to inherit the Kingdom of God. JWs believe only a few people will ever be born again. When a believer in Jesus as the Son of God is born again he or she welcomes the spirit of truth which was manifest in Jesus Christ into their self. So nobody is really in the truth, the truth is in Christ's believers.

The governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses do not teach that. They say to know the truth you must be fed by them.

 

[gilligan8914]

Is Jehovah the same as Yahweh?

 

[JayJayDee]

Her point is the people of the Watchtower obey the governing body like the governing body is Christ, but they have made many serious errors about a lot of things.

In over 40 years I have not seen one "serious error" made about anything.
I have seen clarifications and the scriptural basis for them. They are minor things that cause no damage to anyone. What you say is nonsense.

The JWs go door to door warning people about God's wrath. But the JWs must be warned also.

I wonder what the Jews said about Jesus to warn them about him and his disciples? Whatever it was that they said, it worked because the majority of the Jews believed the lies and supported the ones who put the son of God to death. They were so sure that he was a false Messiah that they cursed themselves and their children with his blood. (Matt 27:24, 25)

Ask yourself whose side you would have taken if you had been around back then?

Jesus said...

“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; 39 and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned; 41 two women will be grinding at the hand mill: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned. 42 Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.
43 “But know one thing, that if the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 On this account you too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that you do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming."

Would you like to water down Jesus' own words?

 

[savagewind]

Is Jehovah the same as Yahweh?

Yes and no. I heard some research on the origin of the name Jehovah and according to it the name Jehovah does not mean YHVH or Yahweh. The Jehovah's Wintesses claim they worship the God of the Bible Yahweh.

 

[JayJayDee]

Is Jehovah the same as Yahweh?

Jehovah is the English translation of the divine name YHWH. (Yahweh)

 

[gilligan8914]

Yahweh is the son of El, why doesn't El get more publicity?

 

[savagewind]

Yahweh is the son of El, why doesn't El get more publicity?

YHVH is God. God is the father of all. God does not have a father. God has no beginning and no end.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

The prophesy on the end of the present system of things is still in its fulfillment but the Bible Student's expectations back in the early days were a little off in the timing is all. It is not a false or failed prophesy, they just got the timing wrong. Just like the apostles who witnessed Jesus ascension to heaven asked him if he was 'restoring the kingdom to Israel at that time'? (Acts 1:6)

.

No it was a false prophesy what Russell believed would happen was false! The timing was not a "little off" he was way off on what would happen by 1914.

 

[savagewind]

It was printed in the early 1900's by the Watchtower. Millions now living will never die I believe it was 88 years ago.

They just got the timing wrong?????

 

[Ouroboros]

Yahweh is the son of El, why doesn't El get more publicity?

Yahweh is Kal El son of Jor El? No. Wait. That's Superman. LOL!

 

[savagewind]

Numbers are important to get right. It means your llife! Time, not so much.

 

[savagewind]

The governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses have the weighty job of deciding what is important to know and what is not important to know. What is important to do and what is not important to do. They make mistakes, it is true, but they are men. Who doesn't make mistakes? The mistakes of other churches are not OK though and it is because they have the weighty job of deciding what is important to know for EVERYBODY. They say it is not for everybody but those for whom it is not are lost forever......

 

[JayJayDee]

No it was a false prophesy what Russell believed would happen was false! The timing was not a "little off" he was way off on what would happen by 1914.

We believe that the slave reveals what we need to know, when we need to know it.
As holy spirit directs them, they "feed" the flock. Jesus passed on knowledge progressively when he was on earth. Even when he left the earth, they still had much to learn. He sent the holy spirit to help them.

1914 was a scriptural date, calculated according to other Bible prophesies, esp Daniel's. (previously explained)
But instead of their expectation being the "end", it was instead "the beginning of the time of the end" spoken about in Daniel 12:4. There was so much more to be seen and done as 'abundant knowledge' was revealed during this time. A cleansing and refining were also foretold for God's true worshippers. (Dan 12:9, 10) The wicked would understand nothing.

The harvest is a season and work had to be carried out during that season.

The weeds had to be identified and a separation from the wheat had to take place. The call to get out of "Babylon the great" was made and God's "people" voted with their feet and obeyed God's command leaving the churches and their false teachings behind.

" And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind." (Rev 18:4, 5)

Everything that Jesus foretold has come true except for the last few events that must yet take place.

One by one dictatorships all over the world have fallen over the last few decades or so. Financial crises have brought many once wealthy nations to their knees, now way over their heads in mounting debt.
The population in general are sick of life in this unfair, greedy and violent world, so the offer of a solution to mankind's troubles will seem like the way to go.

There will be an international cry of "peace and security" but it will be based on a lie.

Paul wrote..."Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. For you yourselves know quite well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. Whenever it is that they are saying: “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape." (1 Thess 5:1-3)

The rulership of the 'eighth king' of Revelation is a world rulership but it is very brief. It will completely strip all humans of any freedoms they may have gained in the past. No one will be able to even buy or sell without their authority. (Rev 17:14-18) They will ban all religion in their attempt to control the world; bringing down "Babylon the great", the most decisive element on the planet, as if it was their own idea, but it is God who puts it into their minds to do it. It is his will that Babylon be destroyed.

This will usher in the time of tribulation "such as has not occurred since the world's beginning until now", foretold by Jesus. (Matt 24:21)

The prophesy will be fulfilled in God's due time...no amount of guessing on our part will make it come to pass before its time. It will come unexpectedly, "like a thief in the night".