Will someone please talk to me?

[Wherenextcolumbus]

oh jay don't you see what I am getting at? why not just say the JW shared there food with each other, why say and compared to the jews Jws shared food with each other and the jews didn't? you don't see what is wrong with that?

 

[savagewind]

oh jay don't you see what I am getting at? why not just say the JW shared there food with each other, why say and compared to the jews Jws shared food with each other and the jews didn't? you don't see what is wrong with that?

I understand it. To say we helped our brothers in prison is a statement of what they did. To say the Jews were not observed sharing food is a commentary that sheds bad light on another race. Also, not observing something, does not mean it did not happen.

There was no need to write about the Jews comparing them to the Jehovah's Witnesses. And what they wrote about the Jews might not even be true. Then it's slander, isn't it?

I just had a mental vision of it. The Jews might have observed the JWs giving food to each other. The Jews might have thought they themselves did not want to be observed giving food to each other so they did but hid the fact they did.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I understand it. To say we helped our brothers in prison is a statement of what they did. To say the Jews were not observed sharing food is a commentary that sheds bad light on another race. Also, not observing something, does not mean it did not happen.

There was no need to write about the Jews comparing them to the Jehovah's Witnesses. And what they wrote about the Jews might not even be true. Then it's slander, isn't it?

I just had a mental vision of it. The Jews might have observed the JWs giving food to each other. The Jews might have thought they themselves did not want to be observed giving food to each other so they did but hid the fact they did.

Also lets not forget there were a hell of a lot more Jews in concentration camps than JWs and probably a good deal were not even observant Jews, so why compare a religious obligation to a non religious group of people? And to make such a sweeping statement is verging on being anti-Semitic and also blowing smoke up you own butt, it's not humble.

 

[savagewind]

Also lets not forget there were a hell of a lot more Jews in concentration camps than JWs and probably a good deal were not even observant Jews, so why compare a religious obligation to a non religious group of people? And to make such a sweeping statement is verging on being anti-Semitic and also blowing smoke up you own butt, it's not humble.

Drug companies must announce all the bad things that might happen to you if you take their drugs.

Religion need not do it. So religion advertises only what makes them look good. When the members of the Jehovah's Witnesses are seeking to make converts to their religion they do not tell the possible converts the bad things, only the good things, according to them.

What are some of the things they say that are not humble? (1 Peter 5:6). One thing they do not tell is that your status in the group is dependant on how well you conform to their way of doing things. What is their way? Their way is meeting three times a week at the Kingdom Hall for religious study. They expect that you will be prepared for each meeting. How? A good JW reviews the subject matter of each meeting before each meeting. Then there is Saturday morning. A good JW meets for the field service every Saturday. Now it is four days a week for meetings. Three for study and one for evangelizing. What about vacations? There will be plenty of suggestions from the governing body that it will go well for the JW family if they use their vacation time to do more evangelizing.

You will not be allowed to wear what you want to meetings. There is a dress code. God requires dressing up? Oh yes! What if a homeless family would like to hear the word of Jehovah? Jehovah will provide clean dress up clothes for those whose heart condition is good. James 2:2-4 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the poor man, "You stand there" or "Sit on the floor by my feet," have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

According to James 2:2-4 God is NOT pleased with a dress code but they have one anyway.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

From all I can see, you are in the same "category" as me -- believing the Bible in at least broad outline, accepting Jesus as Messiah (whom you refer to by the archaic Hebrew spelling), and rejecting trinitarian formulations that claim this Jesus is God. People in this category are rejected by the Jews (who do not accept Jesus as Messiah) and Christians (who insist on the Trinity). On RF, this is of considerable consequence; as it limits what things we can discuss and where we can discuss them.

Hey BlandOatmeal...
Kinda just trawling through some older posts, and this piqued my interest a little. When you say Christians insist on the Trinity, that's not true of ALL Christian churches, right?

LDS, Christian Science, JW's (already mentioned), the Mormons (I think?)...
I'm sure the Ethiopian Orthodox Church has rejected the Trinity since the time of the first Council.

Anyways, my question is just really you see any similarities between your beliefs and the expressed doctrine of those churches.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Drug companies must announce all the bad things that might happen to you if you take their drugs.

Religion need not do it. So religion advertises only what makes them look good. When the members of the Jehovah's Witnesses are seeking to make converts to their religion they do not tell the possible converts the bad things, only the good things, according to them.

What are some of the things they say that are not humble? (1 Peter 5:6). One thing they do not tell is that your status in the group is dependant on how well you conform to their way of doing things. What is their way? Their way is meeting three times a week at the Kingdom Hall for religious study. They expect that you will be prepared for each meeting. How? A good JW reviews the subject matter of each meeting before each meeting. Then there is Saturday morning. A good JW meets for the field service every Saturday. Now it is four days a week for meetings. Three for study and one for evangelizing. What about vacations? There will be plenty of suggestions from the governing body that it will go well for the JW family if they use their vacation time to do more evangelizing.

You will not be allowed to wear what you want to meetings. There is a dress code. God requires dressing up? Oh yes! What if a homeless family would like to hear the word of Jehovah? Jehovah will provide clean dress up clothes for those whose heart condition is good. James 2:2-4 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in filthy old clothes also comes in. If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the poor man, "You stand there" or "Sit on the floor by my feet," have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

According to James 2:2-4 God is NOT pleased with a dress code but they have one anyway.

I would say that fact that a woman can't wear trousers in the kingdom hall or while evangelising is going beyond what is written.

 

[savagewind]

I would say that fact that a woman can't wear trousers in the kingdom hall or while evangelising is going beyond what is written.

It absolutely is! They will say it is alright to wear trousers (? LOL) to the Kingdom Hall. There is not strict rule about it. It is socially unacceptable. Should it be looked down upon? I don't think so. They say Jehovah sees the inside and the outside does not matter but then they teach it does. They have two HEADS I say.

I feel like trolling. I think I shall. White man speaks with forked tongue. White man is governing body. No wait! There is a black man now. No Native Americans though.

 

[Katzpur]

LDS, Christian Science, JW's (already mentioned), the Mormons (I think?)...

The LDS and the Mormons are one and the same, by the way. You're right, though, we don't believe in the Trinity (as defined at the Council at Nicaea in 325 A.D.). We do believe in the Godhead as described in the scriptures, though.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

It absolutely is! They will say it is alright to wear trousers (? LOL) to the Kingdom Hall. There is not strict rule about it. It is socially unacceptable. Should it be looked down upon? I don't think so. They say Jehovah sees the inside and the outside does not matter but then they teach it does. They have two HEADS I say.

I feel like trolling. I think I shall. White man speaks with forked tongue. White man is governing body. No wait! There is a black man now. No Native Americans though.

Now that you mentioned the black brother, I have something to say, why are most like 98% of the biblical characters in the watchtower white or just very light-skinned? Why are the all the angels white and the 144,000 white? why is Moses white? Like seriously...
Am I trolling?
This is just something I have noticed.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

The LDS and the Mormons are one and the same, by the way. You're right, though, we don't believe in the Trinity (as defined at the Council at Nicaea in 325 A.D.). We do believe in the Godhead as described in the scriptures, though.

Don't mind me. I'll be the one hiding my embarrassment over in the corner over here.

Hey, since I've already demonstrated ignorance (although I knew that already...just one of those mental blank moments I guess) when would each term be used?

My best guess is that members of the Church refer to the Church as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, but the common term for followers is Mormons?

 

[Katzpur]

Don't mind me. I'll be the one hiding my embarrassment over in the corner over here.

Hey, since I've already demonstrated ignorance (although I knew that already...just one of those mental blank moments I guess) when would each term be used?

My best guess is that members of the Church refer to the Church as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, but the common term for followers is Mormons?

Yeah, that's right. There is actually no such thing as the "Mormon Church." People call us "Mormons." Most of us prefer to be called "LDS," but "Mormon" is okay, too. It's when they intentionally drop the middle 'm' that we get testy.

 

[Ouroboros]

Yeah, that's right. There is actually no such thing as the "Mormon Church." People call us "Mormons." Most of us prefer to be called "LDS," but "Mormon" is okay, too. It's when they intentionally drop the middle 'm' that we get testy.

Oh. And I thought it was hormones...

Btw, LDS is an anagram of LSD... just saying.

 

[JayJayDee]

I would say that fact that a woman can't wear trousers in the kingdom hall or while evangelising is going beyond what is written.

When one is representing the Supreme Sovereign of the Universe, one does not do it in casual attire. Would you wear casual clothes if you were invited to the White House or No 10 Downing Street? What about an Ambassador for a foreign government? Will he wear shorts and a T-shirt whilst speaking to foreign dignitaries? What would his president or king think of him if he did? How long would he keep his post? Should we treat the most important personage in existence with less respect?

In the old days a person would not be caught dead wearing anything but their "Sunday best" to church. It's not that we "can't" wear trousers to the meetings or out in service, it's that we choose to represent Jehovah in a more dignified way. Look at what people wear to church these days? Is it respectful? I don't believe so.

 

[JayJayDee]

Now that you mentioned the black brother, I have something to say, why are most like 98% of the biblical characters in the watchtower white or just very light-skinned? Why are the all the angels white and the 144,000 white? why is Moses white? Like seriously...
Am I trolling?
This is just something I have noticed.

Perhaps you should think about it a little more carefully H.

Israeli Jews are not black. Israeli people who come to Australia are not dark skinned...you can't tell them from Aussies until you hear their accent.
Some of the Arab nations are olive skinned but they are not black either. If the nation of Israel were not very dark skinned people and they were forbidden to marry outside their race and religion, then black skinned individuals would have been a rarity among them, don't you think?

Since angels appeared to God's servants who were not dark skinned, why would they appear as people of the nations, with whom the Jews had no dealings? Common sense isn't it? Why are you looking for racism?

It was with the spread of Christianity that dark skinned peoples were given the opportunity to respond to the good news along with many other fair skinned people of the world.
Jehovah's Witnesses come from all nationalities, including indigenous peoples where white conquerors invaded their land many centuries ago. They form one brotherhood from all nationalities and backgrounds who all love one another without prejudice.

Just so you know.....the pictures in the WT publications are designed to reflect the ethnic backgrounds of the people in all nations. In Asian nations, the people depicted in the magazines are Asian, in African countries, they are African people. We do not favor one race over another but try to speak to all people in their own language and with familiar looking people in their publications.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Israeli Jews are not black. Israeli people who come to Australia are not dark skinned...you can't tell them from Aussies until you hear their accent.
Some of the Arab nations are olive skinned but they are not black either. If the nation of Israel were not very dark skinned people and they were forbidden to marry outside their race and religion, then black skinned individuals would have been a rarity among them, don't you think?

I'm gonna apologize in advance for missing the context on this one...
How certain are you that Moses was white? It would seem contrary to some of what I've read, although I know he is often depicted as a white man.

 

[JayJayDee]

I'm gonna apologize in advance for missing the context on this one...
How certain are you that Moses was white? It would seem contrary to some of what I've read, although I know he is often depicted as a white man.

Hi LNM,
If Moses was black and he was Jewish, then all the Jews as descendants of Abraham would be black, having come from the same family line. They were not permitted interracial marriage, so where would dark skin come from?

Those who live in the Middle East are usually olive skinned, not necessarily "white" (like Scandinavians or Brits). Those from Italy, Greece, and other Mediterranean countries are not black.

What makes you think Moses was dark skinned? Does it matter?

 

[savagewind]

When one is representing the Supreme Sovereign of the Universe, one does not do it in casual attire. Would you wear casual clothes if you were invited to the White House or No 10 Downing Street? What about an Ambassador for a foreign government? Will he wear shorts and a T-shirt whilst speaking to foreign dignitaries? What would his president or king think of him if he did? How long would he keep his post? Should we treat the most important personage in existence with less respect?

In the old days a person would not be caught dead wearing anything but their "Sunday best" to church. It's not that we "can't" wear trousers to the meetings or out in service, it's that we choose to represent Jehovah in a more dignified way. Look at what people wear to church these days? Is it respectful? I don't believe so.

Choosing to dress up in one's Sunday best and having rules about it are different. Isn't it?

It makes sense to look your best at meeting where Jesus is present (where two or more are gathered together in my name I am there - Matthew 18:20). But people who must gather to Jesus for everlasting life don't know that. It is something learned. They won't learn it for themselves because it is TOLD them. There is a difference between obedience for love and obedience for the sake of obedience. Having rules about it discourage seekers of Jehovah from seeking Jehovah. The Jehovah's Witnesses believe the food for everlasting life can be got at the Kingdom Hall and only there. Please read the scripture James 2:2-4 again.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Perhaps you should think about it a little more carefully H.

Israeli Jews are not black. Israeli people who come to Australia are not dark skinned...you can't tell them from Aussies until you hear their accent.
Some of the Arab nations are olive skinned but they are not black either. If the nation of Israel were not very dark skinned people and they were forbidden to marry outside their race and religion, then black skinned individuals would have been a rarity among them, don't you think?

Since angels appeared to God's servants who were not dark skinned, why would they appear as people of the nations, with whom the Jews had no dealings? Common sense isn't it? Why are you looking for racism?

It was with the spread of Christianity that dark skinned peoples were given the opportunity to respond to the good news along with many other fair skinned people of the world.
Jehovah's Witnesses come from all nationalities, including indigenous peoples where white conquerors invaded their land many centuries ago. They form one brotherhood from all nationalities and backgrounds who all love one another without prejudice.

Just so you know.....the pictures in the WT publications are designed to reflect the ethnic backgrounds of the people in all nations. In Asian nations, the people depicted in the magazines are Asian, in African countries, they are African people. We do not favor one race over another but try to speak to all people in their own language and with familiar looking people in their publications.

I'm not saying they would of been very very dark they would of been brown though, brown!!! Moses passed as an Egyptian, you even have the Egyptians as being white most of the time. You even have a blonde Adam and Eve at one point. And Adam and Eve are always white. I remember in my book of bible stories Moses was proper white. I know some Arabs can be very fair skinned like my grandad probably cause of French invasion and all of that, but we are talking about 3,000 plus years ago..,the magority would have been brown. Watchtower depicts 98% white, it doesn't make sense.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

And why are angels and the 144,000 who will go to heaven depicted as white? Anything celestial is also a white man.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

When one is representing the Supreme Sovereign of the Universe, one does not do it in casual attire. Would you wear casual clothes if you were invited to the White House or No 10 Downing Street? What about an Ambassador for a foreign government? Will he wear shorts and a T-shirt whilst speaking to foreign dignitaries? What would his president or king think of him if he did? How long would he keep his post? Should we treat the most important personage in existence with less respect?

In the old days a person would not be caught dead wearing anything but their "Sunday best" to church. It's not that we "can't" wear trousers to the meetings or out in service, it's that we choose to represent Jehovah in a more dignified way. Look at what people wear to church these days? Is it respectful? I don't believe so.

Men are wear smart trousers right? They make smart trousers for women too, so what is the problem?