Wisconsin govenor busted!

[asketikos]

You're covering so many issues.....I deplore the Wall St bail-outs. But they aren't related to over-compensated unionized public employees.
Moreover, the unionized types in my city are a pain to deal with because management is afraid to discipline them.....useless building &
housing inspectors (grumble, grumble). Money must be saved, & it won't happen by just casting blame on federal waste.

I understand, and I agree that they are broad issues, but they are related issues, very much so.

Terrible public employees? Yes, they exist. They exist everywhere. I don't think we are ever in history going to find a profession where every single person is putting in their best at all times, public or private. For example, I was at a fast food restaurant ordering something with a friend, and I had terrible service. That's in a private sector. Yes they are being paid poorly and that's my point.

My argument is thus: if we attack the unions which leaves people who are teaching our students and protecting our buildings and bodies, if we lower their salaries, take away their healthcare, and destroy their pensions -- who on Earth will want to be come a teacher again? Who will want to be an officer?

A few bad apples, doesn't answer anything. And the argument that teachers, and city workers can't be fired if they do a bad job is just plain ridiculous. Teachers and city workers have crazy amounts of tests, and constant supervisors, way way way way more than in the private sector. And by the way, a few years ago when I was in college I worked as a substitute teacher in Manhattan in charter schools, non of the teachers were unionized because it is mostly forbidden to unionize in charter schools (which are all PUBLICLY FUNDED), and they all were teaching at charter schools because they were all hoping to be hired as public school teachers, after these new laws, we can say goodbye to our best and brightest teaching our next generation. And I think that's way worse then a few bad apples.

 

[Revoltingest]

I understand, and I agree that they are broad issues, but they are related issues, very much so.
Terrible public employees? Yes, they exist. They exist everywhere. I don't think we are ever in history going to find a profession where every single person is putting in their best at all times, public or private. For example, I was at a fast food restaurant ordering something with a friend, and I had terrible service. That's in a private sector. Yes they are being paid poorly and that's my point.

Fast food service is much better than dealing with the Vogons down at City Hall....at least here. But with burger joints, I have a
choice...I can switch to Subway or Rally. But City Hall has a monopoly on building permits, certificates of occupancy, courtrooms, etc.

My argument is thus: if we attack the unions which leaves people who are teaching our students and protecting our buildings and bodies, if we lower their salaries, take away their healthcare, and destroy their pensions -- who on Earth will want to be come a teacher again? Who will want to be an officer?

Whoa! I hadn't heard anything about taking away their health care....just reining in costs.

A few bad apples, doesn't answer anything. And the argument that teachers, and city workers can't be fired if they do a bad job is just plain ridiculous. Teachers and city workers have crazy amounts of tests, and constant supervisors, way way way way more than in the private sector.

I see a different picture here. It was even worse at GM.

And by the way, a few years ago when I was in college I worked as a substitute teacher in Manhattan in charter schools, non of the teachers were unionized because it is mostly forbidden to unionize in charter schools (which are all PUBLICLY FUNDED), and they all were teaching at charter schools because they were all hoping to be hired as public school teachers, after these new laws, we can say goodbye to our best and brightest teaching our next generation. And I think that's way worse then a few bad apples.

So you don't trust government to treat its employees fairly?

 

[Engyo]

So you don't trust government to treat its employees fairly?

You don't, do you think someone else should?

 

[Revoltingest]

You don't, do you think someone else should?

I was asking the other fella, but now I ask you too.
Regarding your question, I don't trust government, nor do I recommend that anyone else do so.
That's why the right to change employers is important. We taxpayers don't have that much flexibility.

 

[Engyo]

That's why the right to change employers is important. We taxpayers don't have that much flexibility.

One certainly has a right to change employers, just as taxpayers have the right to move to different cities, states, or even countries (subject to immigration restrictions) in order to modify their tax requirements. However, if there are no other prospective employers offering employment, then one is just as stuck as the taxpayer whose income requires them to remain in a given location.

 

[Revoltingest]

One certainly has a right to change employers, just as taxpayers have the right to move to different cities, states, or even countries (subject to immigration restrictions) in order to modify their tax requirements. However, if there are no other prospective employers offering employment, then one is just as stuck as the taxpayer whose income requires them to remain in a given location.

In my experience, changing employers is a snap, but moving....that's worse
than going thru a divorce while implementing new management software!
Do you find government not trustworthy enuf to employ workers without
union protection?

 

[Sunstone]

The Wisconsin Governor looks at grave risk of being recalled next year when it will be constitutionally possible to do so. Meanwhile, it seems eight Republican senators will face recall elections this year. As things are going, the Wisconsin Senate could be in Democratic hands by the end of the year. It seems possible Walker is something of a political idiot to have pushed union busting under the lie of balancing the budget.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

The Wisconsin Governor looks at grave risk of being recalled next year when it will be constitutionally possible to do so. Meanwhile, it seems eight Republican senators will face recall elections this year. As things are going, the Wisconsin Senate could be in Democratic hands by the end of the year. It seems possible Walker is something of a political idiot to have pushed union busting under the lie of balancing the budget.

Forgoing democracy is worse than lying about the bill itself.

And there's got to be something more to it than just the union thing if all these Republicans are getting recalled.

Maybe Americans like democracy? I hope so.

 

[Sunstone]

Maybe Americans like democracy? I hope so.

I don't know, Nate. I hope so too, but Americans have been pummeled with PR driven social engineering for about 100 years now. Thank Edward Bernays (and others), but we seem pretty pacified now: We're not so much a nation of citizens anymore as we are a nation of consumers. Sure, there's been 100,000 people in the streets of Madison at times. But in Egypt, would that have been a million people? I just hope there are enough citizen minded Americans left to push back effectively against this tyranny. But I no longer think we as an entire nation can be said to like democracy.

 

[Engyo]

In my experience, changing employers is a snap, but moving....that's worse
than going thru a divorce while implementing new management software!
Do you find government not trustworthy enuf to employ workers without
union protection?

You were the one who said you didn't trust government.......i certainly don't trust government to treat employees fairly without unions.

 

[Revoltingest]

You were the one who said you didn't trust government.......i certainly don't trust government to treat employees fairly without unions.

It's not an argument....I just asked a question.
It helps to understand your perspective.

 

[zizzer]

Yes. Let's push back effectively in great numbers. April 4 there will be rallies in every state. Join us and stand as one!