Without the Holy Spirit...

[sun rise]

Now you get a little angry.

So you read my mind and knew what emotion I was feeling over the internet. Why not just discuss an issue instead of imputing an emotion to me which does not forward the dialog and which is wrong besides.

 

[firedragon]

So you read my mind and knew what emotion I was feeling over the internet. Why not just discuss an issue instead of imputing an emotion to me which does not forward the dialog and which is wrong besides.

I did discuss the issue my friend. Engage with it. Not hold onto a mythicists view and expect empiricism from an event no one knows when it took place. You just dismissed what I said to whataboutery when your whole thesis of mythicism and plagiarism is just guesswork of someone else.

I told you that Abraham comes from Iraq. Gilgamesh could be a copy of the Noah episode. Why do you insist its the other way around? Is it because that is a famous guesswork of mythicists?

And your only answer was a "I dont care" retort.

Have a great day.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Good Mornin,

I am speaking from self experience. I was born and raised in a First Baptist family. I grew up goin to church, revivals, camps, I went through the entire ordeals of almost everythin they put out there. I went as far as Jamaica to spread the gospel and we were in choirs n such. I did everythin I was supposed to in the "Christian" arena. Got saved, asked Jesus to come into my heart, baptised, went out on visitation times, etc. etc. etc. I was well known in my church youth groups, activities, everything. I had a great deal of fun "preaching the gospel" and havin a great time defending my belief. I was so adamant-actually extremely adamant that Jesus died for my sins and that's the only way to God.

I was supposed to have that holy spirit in me. But I started to get confused. I started askin myself am I supposed to pray to God or Jesus? I started reading the Bible with an open mind instead of a persistent Baptist mind. I started finding mistakes and mistakes and mistakes. I started questioning my religion AND I HATED THAT. But it started to not make sense. I took out all of Jesus' passages. I put them all on a piece of paper. They hardly made up 1pg and a half from the entire Bible. I started thinkin, how can this be. I went to pastors and asked about the trinity since Jesus mostly stated to pray to the Father, not him. That the Lord God is one God. He could do nothing from himself. The pastors just kept on giving me their version that you must have faith and through Jesus Christ is the only way to get to heaven. I stopped going to preachers because they never could answer me fully and before you say they didn't explain it very well, I went to quite a few and they all said the same thing. So I started my journey into the unknown. I would never deny my Creator I knew that and I loved Jesus with all my heart so no one can thwart me there.

I started writing down the mistakes I found in the Bible. They started piling up. And anyone in the world has the power to do this, to me, the holy ghost was letting me down. I knew that God does not make mistakes in his word. I just knew it. I started with the authors of the books, I found out that Moses didn't even write the first 5 books and the story continues. I went from page one to the end. I was not a Bible scholar to interpret the works of the Bible, but I was human, I was saved, I was supposed to have the holy spirit in me. I even found plagiarism in the Bible. The Book of Isaiah 37 and then in 2 Kings 19. Exact same words. Why? No one could answer me this. They kept on telling me, it's the way God works...in Mysterious ways, etc. By the way, they use that a lot. So if The preachers and pastors can't explain to me forthright, then where is the Holy Spirit they claim that would guide me into all truth? It was abandoning me. I was not a joke. I loved my religion. I love Jesus. I love God. But it seemed to be all falling apart on me.

That is when I started asking questions outside my religion. By the way, that is like serious taboo. To venture outside and start having doubts and to go away from the religion your parents taught you on-especially First Baptist is a no no. But I did it because I wanted answers to my questions.

I asked about many religions and I went as far as to speak to rabis in the Jewish arena. I found out about a lot of religions but I kept it to the ones of the Creator, not man made ones. To me, those didn't seem realistic to keep God and Jesus out of the equation. I then met a Muslim. He explained quite a lot. I started my journey into Islam from that day forwards. I went to meetings, I went to gatherings. I started learning about this religion that only professed One God and loved all the prophets of God. They loved Jesus! I was shocked to be honest because many people just tell you they are in hell and believe differently. Well, yes, they did believe differently but they proved to me the reasons why. They had the answers I was looking for. It coincided with what Jesus was saying on my paper even! After that, it took me some time because I was afraid of what my parents, my pastor, my friends would all do if they found out. The pressure was unsurmountable. But I listened to my gut and I believe I truly found the truth.

So now the question stems outward....do you think that they can interpret the Bible without the holy ghost. My answer is YES.

I feel great affinity to you and all seekers of truth that dare to question things and look past beliefs of family, surroundings...

Have you examined Islam and Quran with the same scrutiny as other religions? Is it even allowed in Islam to apply critical thinking?

Criticism of the Quran - Wikipedia

 

[MyM]

I feel great affinity to you and all seekers of truth that dare to question things and look past beliefs of family, surroundings...

Have you examined Islam and Quran with the same scrutiny as other religions? Is it even allowed in Islam to apply critical thinking?

Criticism of the Quran - Wikipedia

It took me some time to come to Islam. I believed in it since it was so similar yet straight forward yet so masterful a book it hasn't been changed in over 1400 years. People can criticize the Quran-especially those who do not believe in it, and many have but ya gotta realize though, that those who do criticize the Quran, are enemies of it, but to actually disprove it, they will never be able to for Allah challenges anyone to even come up with something like it-and he warned you will fail. His words still ring true til this day and it will stand til the end times

In Islam, Allah says his last message are for those with understanding. Those who hate and those who fight against it, are not of understanding and will not be able to understand the meanings with pinpointing and taking out of context and hurting what they don't understand. They take pride in such hatefulness. Those people do not have the humbleness and the sincerity to understand unless they really honestly want to understand.

 

[PearlSeeker]

It took me some time to come to Islam. I believed in it since it was so similar yet straight forward yet so masterful a book it hasn't been changed in over 1400 years. People can criticize the Quran-especially those who do not believe in it, and many have but ya gotta realize though, that those who do criticize the Quran, are enemies of it, but to actually disprove it, they will never be able to for Allah challenges anyone to even come up with something like it-and he warned you will fail. His words still ring true til this day and it will stand til the end times

Criticism is nothing hateful. It's a scientific method for investigating ancient texts. It's revealing origins, author(s), historical context, identification of textual variants/versions etc.

 

[MyM]

Criticism is nothing hateful. It's a scientific method for investigating ancient texts. It's revealing origins, author(s), historical context, identification of textual variants/versions etc.

I can take critizism, but it's the hateful mocking that people do. When people think they understand and they do nuthin but bash. But yes, I did a lot of research into Islam before I became a Muslim. I compared a lot of things. I even took the words of Jesus out of the Bible as well and compared them with different texts as well as the Quran. So yes, I did quite a lot of research.

 

[Truthseeker]

Is it even allowed in Islam to apply critical thinking?

That's rude.

 

[Muffled]

Honestly, I started off thinking I was a spiritual individual.
Now I question that belief for myself. For better or worse, you all are stuck with the results.

Do you dream things you don't remember on waking as opposed to day dreams?

 

[Muffled]

Riiiiiight. (face palm)

I once had a Mormon missionary ask me to pray about the angel Moroni. Jesus told me it was a demon. The missionary was not a happy camper when I told him that. Not all spirits are from God.

 

[Muffled]

If it is from God there should be no authors, God should endorse it throughout but in the Bible he doesn't.

I believe you are incorrect. He states through Paul that all (Bible) scripture is God inspired.

 

[MyM]

I believe you are incorrect. He states through Paul that all (Bible) scripture is God inspired.

please quote it Did Jesus say it? Did God claim he said it?

 

[Nakosis]

Do you dream things you don't remember on waking as opposed to day dreams?

Sure.
Though after a period of time the day dreams get forgotten too.

 

[sojourner]

Can one interpret the Bible?

Some claim the Bible interprets itself, which I disagree with.
I interpret the Bible. Usually taking the plainest most mundane meaning. However I can't guarantee this mundane simple meaning to have been the intent of the original author.

Still I have heard from many, making many claims about the true meaning of scripture. I've given up trying to reconcile the numerous claims made by those claiming via some unknown authority, their interpretation.

Should non-believers simply pack up their bags and move to some other topic when it comes to understanding the Bible, or can anyone read the Bible using common language skills and understand it.

There are levels of understanding. The texts are multivalent, lending themselves to a variety of meanings.

 

[sojourner]

I believe you are incorrect. He states through Paul that all (Bible) scripture is God inspired.

Remember, though, that Paul wasn’t writing scripture. He was writing a letter. For Paul, the only scriptures were the Hebrew texts. He wasn’t speaking of the Greek texts.