Woman hits man on bus - watch video and decide....

[Me Myself]

But again, not just fear. You have to imagine what feeling fear everyday while doing elementary things would entail. That is, for one example.

You could also imagine how it would feel like to have been a victim of such assault repeatedly before, or to know people and see them suffering from such assaults, for another.

Yes, I do.

I have said this before here:

When I was in highschool, classmates thought it was hilarious to pretend I was gay, and then it was hilarious to turn on a cellphone music when the teacher wasnt there and ALL THE CLASS OF MORE THAN THIRTY STUDENTS began dancing while approaching to my desk, surrounding me from all angles and while dancing to my desk throw it with all the things in it and laug it up as they went back to their desks.

You cant imagine the pented up anger ere was on me. To this day I dont understand why I didnt grabb one of them, throw them to floor and break an arm. I know for a fact that would have stopped EVERYONE from ever trying to do that again to me as they saw I fought back.

There were other more reasonable actions I could have taken that I didnt, but I do understand anger from belittlement and humiliation.

Fear? I have no doubt it was worst for her, I knew my life wasnt in danger.

But what else are you talking about? You are telling me it is not just fear, but you tell me to imagine the accumulated fear?

I am not saying her emotional dischage was little, I have no reason to believe that and it doesnt look that way, but what you are describing is fear+fear+fear+fear and then telling me its not just fear. Well, I never said fear was a small passion, but you are describing me fear, if you are describing me sething else I am not following it. If I imagine such a thing fear and anger wiuld be what would come to my imagination. A. LOT of fear and anger.

I am not following what is the point of you asking that to me though.

One does not act reasonably when overcomed by years or months or even seconds of extremely passionate fear and anger. Being overcomed by this things doesnt make actions reasonable. Just the opposite. It is extremely unlikely you will choose a path of action you would with a more reasonable frame of mind.

But her actions are actually in her best interest and in the best interest of society. Women who stand up to things like that so fiercely give support to other women and can help in reducing such assaults a bit, if they're taken as an example.

Like i said, i understand your concern, and things might have worked out badly. But that's a risk with any reaction, even completely silent ones.

But degrees of risk change. Its like saying you can have a baby even if you use a condom. Sure, it might happen, but use the condom.

The scandal is in her best interest and the best interest of the society as I have already said. Her enraging the assaulter beyond necessary for self defense was in detriment for both herself and society.

 

[Alceste]

Maybe. But she was angry and as such she may have mispoken.

Even then. If a man did the same on the opposite scenario to a woman and he yelled she assaulted her first, I would still stop the man from the assault.

I cant take it at word value, I must act from what I see, and if the alleged perpetrator seems to be in control and the other is attacking, I only see one person attacking.

I cant not do anything if I see someone attacking someone else without justifiable self defense.

This happened there.

She was angry and afraid, both things understandable. She acted beyond necessary because of this, which is understandable, easy to sympathize and basic human nature.

The point everyone is trying to drive home to you is that you don't know what was necessary. Neither did she. All she knew is that women get gang raped by groups of men on buses all the time in India. Doubtless, everybody else on the bus knew that too. To determine what was "necessary", we need to ask a few questions - all strategic ones.

Did she regain her physical space?
Did she stop the unwanted advances?
Did she call attention to the fact that she was being assaulted?
Did she establish a clear path to the exit?
Did she ensure that all the men on the bus were within her field of vision?
Did she establish a safe margin of physical space between herself and the men?
Did she clearly demonstrate to the men on the bus that she will fight back if attacked?

If the answer is yes to all these questions, then she did an absolutely excellent job of defending herself, and her method and demeanour (IOW, whether she hit him, how hard, what with, how crazy she looked, bla bla bla) is completely irrelevant. It was necessary for her to achieve all the objectives I listed. If she had not achieved any single thing on that list, she would not have controlled her risk of being gang raped on an Indian bus as effectively as she did.

 

[Me Myself]

The point everyone is trying to drive home to you is that you don't know what was necessary. Neither did she. All she knew is that women get gang raped by groups of men on buses all the time in India. Doubtless, everybody else on the bus knew that too. To determine what was "necessary", we need to ask a few questions - all strategic ones.

Did she regain her physical space?
Did she stop the unwanted advances?
Did she call attention to the fact that she was being assaulted?
Did she establish a clear path to the exit?
Did she ensure that all the men on the bus were within her field of vision?
Did she establish a safe margin of physical space between herself and the men?
Did she clearly demonstrate to the men on the bus that she will fight back if attacked?

If the answer is yes to all these questions, then she did an absolutely excellent job of defending herself, and her method and demeanour (IOW, whether she hit him, how hard, what with, how crazy she looked, bla bla bla) is completely irrelevant. It was necessary for her to achieve all the objectives I listed. If she had not achieved any single thing on that list, she would not have controlled her risk of being gang raped on an Indian bus as effectively as she did.

She did all these things AND THEN she assaulted the man without reason, repeatedly and while getting closer to a group of men who could have been allies of the man instead of taking advantage she had accomplished this things and take even more space. Hens he assaulted the man she was continually making LESS space between him and her , each time he assaulted him after he had left her.

Thanks God she stood up and made a scandal, but thanks God it didnt end up worst after she gambled her gained ground.

 

[Alceste]

The scandal is in her best interest and the best interest of the society as I have already said. Her enraging the assaulter beyond necessary for self defense was in detriment for both herself and society.

When you break a bully, they don't get enraged and seek revenge. They seek an easier victim. That guy only wanted to arouse himself by dominating and sexually touching some pretty, timid stranger on a bus against her will. He didn't want a physical fight.

 

[Alceste]

She did all these things AND THEN she assaulted the man without reason, repeatedly and while getting closer to a group of men who could have been allies of the man instead of taking advantage she had accomplished this things and take even more space. Hens he assaulted the man she was continually making LESS space between him and her , each time he assaulted him after he had left her.

Thanks God she stood up and made a scandal, but thanks God it didnt end up worst after she gambled her gained ground.

Thing is, though, you're just plain wrong about the psychology of bullies and perverts, and perverted bullies.

You said yourself, when you were bullied, you knew all you had to do to put a stop to it was knock somebody down and show them they'll get a licking if they mess with you. That doesn't all change just because the bully is a bus pervert and the bullied person is a woman. She showed him that she is much stronger and fiercer than he is, despite being a woman. He's not going to attack her now. That's not how it works.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

No this was obvious.

Seemed obvious to me at the time too.

 

[Me Myself]

When you break a bully, they don't get enraged and seek revenge. They seek an easier victim. That guy only wanted to arouse himself by dominating and sexually touching some pretty, timid stranger on a bus against her will. He didn't want a physical fight.

I know for a fact this depends on the bully.

If you damaged his ego and he thinks it will be very easy to cow you back, he will cow you back.

"Oh so **** thought she couldess with me? Lets see how she thinks that now, Hey guys! Cme here!"

Gang fights start because of ego all the time.

 

[Badran]

Yes, I do.

I have said this before here:

When I was in highschool, classmates thought it was hilarious to pretend I was gay, and then it was hilarious to turn on a cellphone music when the teacher wasnt there and ALL THE CLASS OF MORE THAN THIRTY STUDENTS began dancing while approaching to my desk, surrounding me from all angles and while dancing to my desk throw it with all the things in it and laug it up as they went back to their desks.

You cant imagine the pented up anger ere was on me. To this day I dont understand why I didnt grabb one of them, throw them to floor and break an arm. I know for a fact that would have stopped EVERYONE from ever trying to do that again to me as they saw I fought back.

There were other more reasonable actions I could have taken that I didnt, but I do understand anger from belittlement and humiliation.

I'm sorry you had to go through all that. I never read that before here.

Fear? I have no doubt it was worst for her, I knew my life wasnt in danger.

But what else are you talking about? You are telling me it is not just fear, but you tell me to imagine the accumulated fear?

I am not saying her emotional dischage was little, I have no reason to believe that and it doesnt look that way, but what you are describing is fear+fear+fear+fear and then telling me its not just fear. Well, I never said fear was a small passion, but you are describing me fear, if you are describing me sething else I am not following it. If I imagine such a thing fear and anger wiuld be what would come to my imagination. A. LOT of fear and anger.

Anger, frustration, helplessness, loneliness, isolation and sexual complications. All these and probably others are things that can and do happen to people who have to live with things like that. Your simplistic description of it all as fear made me believe that you're not giving proper due to the situation.

I am not following what is the point of you asking that to me though.

I'm asking you to consider the few more hits she threw in the context of what it is she's trying to battle.

But degrees of risk change. Its like saying you can have a baby even if you use a condom. Sure, it might happen, but use the condom.

The scandal is in her best interest and the best interest of the society as I have already said. Her enraging the assaulter beyond necessary for self defense was in detriment for both herself and society.

I don't know how else to say this but to repeat myself; your description of how this supposedly works does not ring true to me, as necessity. Bullies are often cowards, and can sometimes be easily broken. Your insistence of describing her actions as only endangering to her on account of enraging the attacker and making him seek revenge is not how things actually happen all or most of the time.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

When you break a bully, they don't get enraged and seek revenge. They seek an easier victim. That guy only wanted to arouse himself by dominating and sexually touching some pretty, timid stranger on a bus against her will. He didn't want a physical fight.

This has been true with my experience....

The high school guy that reached up my skirt never tried anything like that again.

A group of female bullies through middle school stopped harassing me when I threw a hockey puck at them twice in the middle of P.E. class. They were shocked, couldn't believe I did that, but the harassment stopped completely after that and I could go back to school in peace.

My son pushed a bully down in school, and the bully stopped kicking girls off the swings on the playground when my son was around (and he didn't bully my son who was much smaller than him afterward).

There are plenty of experiences that show when somebody attacking people physically and/or sexually, they won't continue to pursue if they feel there is a threat against their advances.

 

[Me Myself]

Thing is, though, you're just plain wrong about the psychology of bullies and perverts, and perverted bullies.

You said yourself, when you were bullied, you knew all you had to do to put a stop to it was knock somebody down and show them they'll get a licking if they mess with you. That doesn't all change just because the bully is a bus pervert and the bullied person is a woman. She showed him that she is much stronger and fiercer than he is, despite being a woman. He's not going to attack her now. That's not how it works.

Thats because I knew the people at my class. None of them would want to REALLY physically hurt me. Most of the people there (remember I am talking about more than thirty people. They are not all gangsters) thought it was harmless fun.

If they had looked at me BREAK SOMEONES ARM for harmless fun, they wouldnt have dared to stand up to that psycho. Then it would be the issue of taking down the one big enough to look intimidating but meek enough to not fight back. I knew already who he was. I also know which would have made me serious damage if they caught me alone while with their buddies all against me.

I am not talking about things that hadnt happened either. (Not to me cause I didnt confronted THEM)

 

[Me Myself]

I'm sorry you had to go through all that. I never read that before here.



Anger, frustration, helplessness, loneliness, isolation and sexual complications. All these and probably others are things that can and do happen to people who have to live with things like that. Your simplistic description of it all as fear made me believe that you're not giving proper due to the situation.



I'm asking you to consider the few more hits she threw in the context of what it is she's trying to battle.



I don't know how else to say this but to repeat myself; your description of how this supposedly works does not ring true to me, as necessity. Bullies are often cowards, and can sometimes be easily broken. Your insistence of describing her actions as only endangering to her on account of enraging the attacker and making him seek revenge is not how things actually happen all or most of the time.

Attacking eight against one is a very cowardly action too. There is no conflict between "lets all attack her" and cowards.

Being in a group that has your back if something like that happens to you is gang thinking 101 . You are describing to me gang rape, so I am assuming gang mentality.

Gang wars start with "one of them killed one of us" and end up in hellfest.

 

[Alceste]

I know for a fact this depends on the bully.

If you damaged his ego and he thinks it will be very easy to cow you back, he will cow you back.

"Oh so **** thought she couldess with me? Lets see how she thinks that now, Hey guys! Cme here!"

Gang fights start because of ego all the time.

Bullying has a different motivation than turf wars, and bullies have a different psychological profile to gang bangers, football hooligans and that sort.

Bullies, predators, the kind of human filth who prey on those they perceive as weak, are cowards who are assaulting the "weak" because want to feel powerful. You only need to show you're more powerful than they are and they'll find somewhere else to get their fix.

 

[Me Myself]

Bullying has a different motivation than turf wars, and bullies have a different psychological profile to gang bangers, football hooligans and that sort.

Bullies, predators, the kind of human filth who prey on those they perceive as weak, are cowards who are assaulting the "weak" because want to feel powerful. You only need to show you're more powerful than they are and they'll find somewhere else to get their fix.

I am under the understanding there is GANG RAPE in India.

He didnt look scared at her, if you see his face after the hit he is controlling himself to not fight back. He is not doing so because he is been seen.

Eight vs one is coward behaviour, and exactly the kind of plausible thing to happen if he happened to have allies there.

 

[Badran]

Attacking eight against one is a very cowardly action too. There is no conflict between "lets all attack her" and cowards.

Being in a group that has your back if something like that happens to you is gang thinking 101 . You are describing to me gang rape, so I am assuming gang mentality.

Gang wars start with "one of them killed one of us" and end up in hellfest.

I wasn't addressing the idea of gang rape, rather the idea of rampant sexual harassment in general, what it entails on the victims and the kind of people who often engage in that. Such people are very often easily broken cowards, and as such, reacting to them fiercely seems to work very well.

If she was in a situation of gang rape, they wouldn't take sympathy on her cause she stroke him with the appropriate number of strikes or because she didn't strike him at all. What this was is a situation of an assault from one person, with a possibility (due to where it happened) of turning into a horrifying incident of gang rape.

 

[Alceste]

I am under the understanding there is GANG RAPE in India.

He didnt look scared at her, if you see his face after the hit he is controlling himself to not fight back. He is not doing so because he is been seen.

Eight vs one is coward behaviour, and exactly the kind of plausible thing to happen if he happened to have allies there.

I think you're getting hung up on semantics. "Gang rape" isn't turf-war-like in its psychological profile simply because it has the word "gang" in it. The psychological motive is still the same as bullying - the desire to dominate one who is perceived as weak in order to feel powerful. When men do this sort of thing in groups, there's also an element of fraternity and male bonding.

Anyway, she herded all the men on the bus into the back, all crowded together. She owned the space. It's confined, they're all in front of her and the exit is behind her. The umbrella adds an extra foot of distance between her and the prospective attackers (only effective if you poke and swipe at them with it). Regardless of how angry they were or how many, she ended up owning the space and attaining the most defensible possible position.

Besides, even if she hadn't fought, if they were intending to rape her they would have tried anyway, whether she made them angry or not.

 

[Me Myself]

I wasn't addressing the idea of gang rape, rather the idea of rampant sexual harassment in general, what it entails on the victims and the kind of people who often engage in that. Such people are very often easily broken cowards, and as such, reacting to them fiercely seems to work very well.

If she was in a situation of gang rape, they wouldn't take sympathy on her cause she stroke him with the appropriate number of strikes or cause she didn't strike him at all. What this was is a situation of an assault from one person, with the possibility (due to where it happened) of turning into a horrifying incident of gang rape.

Sympathy surely no, but they wouldnt go to the troubles of following her and cornering her, etc unless their egos felt offended enough.

Had there not been witnesses her best chance would have been to run anyways, had it been a bus of just rapists she was just ***.



And for the record, as you could ve imagined by now, no, when I said fear I wasnt belittling the emotion at all.

Its a powerful emotion, rarely leading us to any reasonable action.

 

[Alceste]

I am under the understanding there is GANG RAPE in India.

He didnt look scared at her, if you see his face after the hit he is controlling himself to not fight back. He is not doing so because he is been seen.

Eight vs one is coward behaviour, and exactly the kind of plausible thing to happen if he happened to have allies there.

IMO, he's not fighting back because he's a coward and he's afraid of her, not because he's "being seen".

 

[Alceste]

I'm curious why so many think its staged? I don't know it looked real to me.

It's being used as a teaser / promotional video for a film about rape and revenge. That doesn't mean it isn't genuine though. I think it's an authentic vid being used for promotional purposes. I wasn't able to determine the origin of it when I looked it up. The people in the video are not the actors in the film, which is a typical glamorous Bollywood type thing with gorgeous Indian actresses and actors, outfits and settings.

 

[Me Myself]

I think you're getting hung up on semantics. "Gang rape" isn't turf-war-like in its psychological profile simply because it has the word "gang" in it. The psychological motive is still the same as bullying - the desire to dominate one who is perceived as weak in order to feel powerful. When men do this sort of thing in groups, there's also an element of fraternity and male bonding.

Anyway, she herded all the men on the bus into the back, all crowded together. She owned the space. It's confined, they're all in front of her and the exit is behind her. The umbrella adds an extra foot of distance between her and the prospective attackers (only effective if you poke and swipe at them with it). Regardless of how angry they were or how many, she ended up owning the space and attaining the most defensible possible position.

Besides, even if she hadn't fought, if they were intending to rape her they would have tried anyway, whether she made them angry or not.

She did all of the good things you describe way before her needless assault.

It feels like you have two speeds ,people. Either hitting them for ever and ever or being cowed and silent.

She did what she had to and then she acted wrongly.

People feel safe in numbers. If there was a bunch of rapists allied in there who were looking for easy prey, ey are prone to let her go after a scandal. If she hurts their "bro" though, they are likely to get revenge.

As I ve said, whether I had been there to see the situation like it was (and given the most likely scenario been that I never saw the sexual assault as this one was coverted) or saw the same situation but inverted (man hits woman in a bus with an umbrella saying she sexually assaulted him) I would immidiately step in and remove the weapon from the assaulter.

Is basic morals. She is hitting a helpless man, and people cant guess nor should assume what happened before.

 

[Me Myself]

IMO, he's not fighting back because he's a coward and he's afraid of her, not because he's "being seen".

Thats a gamble and an unecessary one. In the video he could have given her way more space if he was afraid. He gave enough to show hands and pretend victimhood, which was his aim, and he tried to control himself to not take the umbrella out of her as she hit him.