Women Liberating Themselves from Liberation

[Kerr]

Absolutely! I am all for the freedom to make our own moral decisions, as long as we don't trample the rights of others when we do so.

In this sense, I guess I am a feminist, because I believe in empowering women to direct their own lives. Being a stay at home mom, or a traditional housewife, or a career executive are all decisions that women and families have to make for themselves based on their own circumstances.

What I want though is a balanced approach to these decisions. I do not believe that one woman or one family can have all the benefits of all scenarios. There is sacrifice involved in each different scenario. There are pros and cons that must be weighed.

My point is that over the past 50 years, the pendulum has swung from one extreme to the other. I am merely trying to explain that there can be great dignity, honor, and achievement in a career as a stay at home mother/housewife AS WELL as in a career outside the home. I would encourage young men and women to strongly consider that option - and with that in mind, I wanted to share my own personal experiences as an example.

I'm sure others have other examples - and that's all these are, personal examples. They don't prove or disprove either point. But the more examples we can share, the more information we have and we can make more informed decisions.

To be honest my perspective is that the society should not care about men or women. It should deal with individuals for what they are, individuals. The end result of a more traditional oriented society seems to be a step from that, which is why I personally prefer the extreme we are in now.

That said, and dispite that I do not have much over for traditions such as this one, I realize fully well that people should be free to choose. It is just not my choice.

It takes a very strong woman to successfully manage a home, the finances, and small children, especially while pregnant - just for the record.

I know .

 

[Alceste]

Feminism is in large part about breaking out of particular gender molds, from Margaret Sanger to Helen Reddy, from suffragism to Women's Lib. These women felt that society held particular roles for them, and fought for the right to define their own roles.

The women in this movement, in the OP, feel very strongly that their religion defines their gender roles, not them. That is their right; and their protest is to make people more aware that not everyone can occupy a self-defined role.
(Yes, I stated it poorly in the post above.)

I'm not saying they don't have the right to define their own roles from a religious point of view. I have concerns about their "movement", and their desire to indoctrinate younger generations of women with their point of view. That can lead nowhere good. Somewhere some little girl with the potential to discover the cure for cancer is being told she ought to be working on her knitting instead of her science homework. And, somewhere, some little gay boy is being taught he doesn't deserve romantic love when he grows up.

 

[Ukonkivi]

The girls quoted in the OP, err, they kind of creep me out.

 

[Kathryn]

And somewhere, some 19 year old is being encouraged by her mother to abort the baby she's carrying so that she can continue college and get her career up and running.

She's being told that it's a small sacrifice to make for her future - and the precedent is now set.

 

[Ukonkivi]

And somewhere, some 19 year old is being encouraged by her mother to abort the baby she's carrying so that she can continue college and get her career up and running.

She's being told that it's a small sacrifice to make for her future - and the precedent is now set.

Sounds sensible to me.

Though, as I'm sure you said that as a Pro-Lifer, you're forgetting that she could give it up for adoption, as well.
Forgive me if these are faulty presumptions.

 

[Kathryn]

Sounds sensible to me.

Yes, I guess I could have told my daughter that when she was nineteen and pregnant. Instead, we have this person in our lives:

I'd say she was well worth the sacrifice - and so would her mother.

 

[McBell]

And somewhere, some 19 year old is being encouraged by her mother to abort the baby she's carrying so that she can continue college and get her career up and running.

She's being told that it's a small sacrifice to make for her future - and the precedent is now set.

relevance?

 

[Kathryn]

relevance?

My comment about encouraging the nineteen year old to have an abortion and finish college was in response to this comment:

Somewhere some little girl with the potential to discover the cure for cancer is being told she ought to be working on her knitting instead of her science homework. And, somewhere, some little gay boy is being taught he doesn't deserve romantic love when he grows up.

Just as that writer thought these teachings were wrong, I think the example I gave is an example of wrong teaching to young girls.

That is the relevance of my post.

 

[Alceste]

I'm pretty sure you'd be hard pressed to find liberal parents who tell their daughters to have abortions.

What my own parents said to me when I was 19 was "we just want you to know, that if you ever get pregnant, we're there for you no matter what you decide to do."

 

[Ukonkivi]

Instead, we have this person in our lives

Waiting to have sex for a guy means that sperm shuffles, and the same sperm will not hit the same egg. My dad waiting a day or so to have sex, would have reduced my chance of being born to nearly zero.

Every time a guy masturbates or has a wet dream thousands upon thousands of possible lives, just like that little girl, are never born.

 

[Kurt31416]

I'd say she was well worth the sacrifice - and so would her mother.

As Pogo Possum used to say, "Those that support abortion always manage to get themselves borned first."

 

[Alceste]

Plus, it strikes me that feminist moms are probably going to teach their daughters about contraception, thereby drastically minimizing the likelihood of having to make such difficult choices.

There's another thing I find disturbing about these women. Studies have shown kids who are treated to a religious education about sex (i.e. "abstinence" education) are no less sexually active than kids who have secular sex ed, but they engage in riskier behavior (sex without condoms) and get themselves knocked up and infected with STDs at a far higher rate.

 

[Kathryn]

Waiting to have sex for a guy means that sperm shuffles, and the same sperm will not hit the same egg. My dad waiting a day or so to have sex, would have reduced my chance of being born to nearly zero.

Every time a guy masturbates or has a wet dream thousands upon thousands of possible lives, just like that little girl, are never born.

Surely you jest.

One sperm or one egg does not a child make.

 

[Kathryn]

Plus, it strikes me that feminist moms are probably going to teach their daughters about contraception, thereby drastically minimizing the likelihood of having to make such difficult choices.

There's another thing I find disturbing about these women. Studies have shown kids who are treated to a religious education about sex (i.e. "abstinence" education) are no less sexually active than kids who have secular sex ed, but they engage in riskier behavior (sex without condoms) and get themselves knocked up and infected with STDs at a far higher rate.

I'd like to read that study. Can you please provide the source?

 

[Alceste]

I'd like to read that study. Can you please provide the source?

Here's Sunstone's blog post where I learned this interesting fact. It has links to the organization who did the review of relevant research, but it looks as though a full copy of the review itself might cost you.

 

[Kathryn]

Thanks - surely that information is available for free somewhere. I've never heard of such a study though so maybe not.

 

[Smoke]

As Pogo Possum used to say, "Those that support abortion always manage to get themselves borned first."

People keep saying Pogo said that, but I haven't been able to find anybody who can give me a source. Can you?

 

[Alceste]

Thanks - surely that information is available for free somewhere. I've never heard of such a study though so maybe not.

On a closer look at the studies that are available, it seems I was correct about abstinence having no impact on sexual activity, but there does not appear to be any evidence that increases sexual risk-taking (i.e. unprotected sex) either, so I'll withdraw that claim. I suppose my only evidence for that opinion is the relatively huge number of teen pregnancies and STIs in the states, where the abstinence education thing is so popular.

 

[Kurt31416]

People keep saying Pogo said that, but I haven't been able to find anybody who can give me a source. Can you?

I'm old enough to remember it from the time. Other people say so too? Wow.

 

[Smoke]

I'm old enough to remember it from the time. Other people say so too? Wow.

They do, but I think they say so incorrectly. I'm old enough to remember it, too, and if I remember correctly Pogo was talking about limiting population growth and not about abortion as such. And I'm pretty sure that if Walt Kelly had written about abortion in Pogo, there would have been a considerable uproar. Abortion isn't generally considered an appropriate topic for the comics page now, and it certainly wasn't during Kelly's lifetime.