Wonder??? Why my J.W. friends left this site?

[jeager106]

Wow!
YOU WILL BE SOOOOOOOOOOOO PUNISHED FOR THAT COMMENT!

You will perish a long and torturous death during the great tribulation.

NOT!
That's what I was taught by J.W.'s when I was very young and impressionable and
believed EVERY WORD uttered by Witnesses.
My J.W. mother would scar **** out of us kids by saying if we didn't attend services
Jehovah would send birds from the heavens to pick our eyes out.
Wow. What an impression I got of a "loving, merciful, forgiving "god".
Now I realize mother was a bit..................er, ah,................NUTS!
I'm 69 year old and STILL riddled with GUILT that I no longer associate with
J.W.'s and the Society.
Some J.W.'s I once knew somehow learned I was baptized in a Church of Christ.
Some called on me and worked that into the "door to door" preaching saying
I MUST go that churches elders and demand my name be removed from the
"book". Membership book I guess?
Else I would be tortured and die in the tribulation. MORE GUILT.
Yet a J.W. man I was friend with allowed himself to be drafted during V.N. and
openly talked about KILLING WOUNDED ENEMY.
Near as I know he served a "shunning" period for a year and later was made an
elder.
Really?
It's o.k. now?
Again let me reassert that I feel the J.W.'s have the Bible nailed down pretty well.
I think they are right about the coming tribulation and Jehovah's Kingdom being
established here on earth.
Or are my feelings driven by ingrained superstition that if I don't at least agree
with some J.W. dogma then "god" will get me?
Hummmm?????????????????
It's horrible to live under the specter of ingrained FEAR.
I was in therapy for p.t.s.d. when these things came up.
To this day I get occasional attacks for fear of "god" punishing me.

 

[savagewind]

Wow!
YOU WILL BE SOOOOOOOOOOOO PUNISHED FOR THAT COMMENT!

You will perish a long and torturous death during the great tribulation.

NOT!
That's what I was taught by J.W.'s when I was very young and impressionable and
believed EVERY WORD uttered by Witnesses.
My J.W. mother would scar **** out of us kids by saying if we didn't attend services
Jehovah would send birds from the heavens to pick our eyes out.
Wow. What an impression I got of a "loving, merciful, forgiving "god".
Now I realize mother was a bit..................er, ah,................NUTS!
I'm 69 year old and STILL riddled with GUILT that I no longer associate with
J.W.'s and the Society.
Some J.W.'s I once knew somehow learned I was baptized in a Church of Christ.
Some called on me and worked that into the "door to door" preaching saying
I MUST go that churches elders and demand my name be removed from the
"book". Membership book I guess?
Else I would be tortured and die in the tribulation. MORE GUILT.
Yet a J.W. man I was friend with allowed himself to be drafted during V.N. and
openly talked about KILLING WOUNDED ENEMY.
Near as I know he served a "shunning" period for a year and later was made an
elder.
Really?
It's o.k. now?
Again let me reassert that I feel the J.W.'s have the Bible nailed down pretty well.
I think they are right about the coming tribulation and Jehovah's Kingdom being
established here on earth.
Or are my feelings driven by ingrained superstition that if I don't at least agree
with some J.W. dogma then "god" will get me?
Hummmm?????????????????
It's horrible to live under the specter of ingrained FEAR.
I was in therapy for p.t.s.d. when these things came up.
To this day I get occasional attacks for fear of "god" punishing me.

I wouldn't worry about the god punishing you. Jesus said we will reap what we sow. He never once said we will reap what we don't sow.
They teach that if you do not agree with the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses you will reap God's anger. They teach that if you do not go to meetings you will reap fear when the time comes. That would be any day now. They say if you do not try to make a disciple you will reap death. Haha
I was not raised a Jehovah's Witnesses. I am sorry for the way you were raised by them.

I think that they are good for something though. I am certain they do NOT have the Book "down pat" but they are good for making people interested in what the Bible really teaches.

I think they are big enough to have affected humankind's outcome. I can't say what I would be had they never existed, but I know Christ and I can thank them for that.

 

[Deeje]

Are you equating Faint hearted with lack of faith?

Not at all, what I am saying is that some people are more sensitive than others. Hearing the disparaging remarks from those who have a twisted stockpile of ammunition from anti-JW hate sites is not something I would subject any sensitive person to. The misinformation posted on those sites is nauseating to say the least. That to us is like someone saying disgusting things about our mother.Who wants to listen to that?

I am visited at least twice a year by Jw's and I am happy to discuss anything they care to bring up. However one of the pair always seems to be somewhat the junior partner, with far less knowledge. Unfortunately the protection of this partner, often take precedence over a frank discussion of more difficult aspects of the Bible.

We have many younger and newer ones in training for the ministry. This would explain why one might be more knowledgeable than the other. On the job training is so much better than in a classroom, so we have both. We are there to preach the good news, not to field questions about the bad news. (Matthew 24:14)

I am a very liberal Anglican, so there are often wide differences in our understanding about what passages might mean. If such questions are avoided, or statements not followed through with deeper understanding, the whole exercise would seem unlikely to be productive.
I am sure some have muttered warding prayers when they left.

LOL a deeper understanding is always a goal of ours. As a former Anglican myself, I can understand why you would choose to be "very liberal". But I don't think you will find the disciples of Jesus being liberal with what he taught. There is one truth and we have to find it. (Ephesians 4:5)

The reason why the truth is not obvious to a lot of people is that the devil planted "weeds" in the world that at first, looked for all the world like genuine Christianity. In order for the "wheat" not be to uprooted along with the weeds by mistake, Jesus said to let them "grow together until the harvest" when a distinct difference would become obvious. Only at this time would a clear distinction be visible. The wheat would no longer resemble the weeds in any way.

When I look at Christendom, I see much of the same in every church. Their teachings might be dished up on a different plate in a different location, with a different side dressing, but by and large they are all different versions of the same thing....the wheat, at the harvest time is not like the weeds at all....and they are not in the majority. "Few" are the ones finding the "cramped and narrow road" to life. (Matthew 7:13-14)

So for me this means that Jesus true disciples are in the minority.....they would be identified by the love they display for one another (John 13:34, 35) by their preaching one united message of truth in every nation on earth (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:19-20) and because they are no part of this world, they are not part of its corrupt politics or supporters of its warfare, (John 15:18-21; Romans 12:17-21) they are hated by the world in general. And like the disciples in the first century, they are opposed mostly by those who claim to worship the same God. Jesus assured us that if some listened to him, some would listen to us too....just not the majority. Jesus likened our time to the days of Noah. (Matt 24:37-39)
If you know why people ignored Noah, you will understand why the majority choose to ignore our message.

 

[Deeje]

Jehovah's day of judgment will come without warning. Once the first domino falls, the rest will topple in quick succession. Just like the events that triggered WW1. The assassination of one man led to the whole world being plunged into a war that nobody saw coming. They called it "the shot that was heard around the world". I wonder what the opening "shot" will be this time? We will have to wait and see.....

Just as there was only one ark of salvation in Noah's day, there is only one "ark" today. If we are not on it, we are guaranteed to perish as surely as those ridiculers did back in Noah's day.

1 Thess 5:1-5:
"Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. 3 Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape. 4 But you, brothers, you are not in darkness, so that the day should overtake you as it would thieves, 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We belong neither to night nor to darkness."

Matthew 24:37-39:
"For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be."

Its coming ...ready or not.

 

[savagewind]

Jehovah's day of judgment will come without warning. Once the first domino falls, the rest will topple in quick succession. Just like the events that triggered WW1. The assassination of one man led to the whole world being plunged into a war that nobody saw coming. They called it "the shot that was heard around the world". I wonder what the opening "shot" will be this time? We will have to wait and see.....

Just as there was only one ark of salvation in Noah's day, there is only one "ark" today. If we are not on it, we are guaranteed to perish as surely as those ridiculers did back in Noah's day.

1 Thess 5:1-5:
"Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. 3 Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape. 4 But you, brothers, you are not in darkness, so that the day should overtake you as it would thieves, 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We belong neither to night nor to darkness."

Matthew 24:37-39:
"For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be."

Its coming ...ready or not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinkerbell_effect

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Just as there was only one ark of salvation in Noah's day, there is only one "ark" today. If we are not on it, we are guaranteed to perish as surely as those ridiculers did back in Noah's day.

Act 4:11-12 (ESVST) 11 This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. 12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

*** w93 9/15 p. 22 They Compassionately Shepherd the Little Sheep ***
But if we were to draw away from Jehovah’s organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy.

The Bible says that there is salvation in no one but Jesus, the governing body says there's no where to go for salvation except the watchtower organization.

Which "ark" are you on? Who do you believe?

I pick Jesus!

 

[Deeje]

Which "ark" are you on? Who do you believe?

I pick Jesus!

Ah, but will Jesus pick you?

(Matthew 7:21-23)

 

[savagewind]

Ah, but will Jesus pick you?

(Matthew 7:21-23)

I don't understand how you can assume Jesus will choose YOU because it is written he who endures to the END will be saved. How do you know that you will endure?

Also, isn't saying that if people endure with the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses then they will be saved a proud statement? Luke 14:11
James 4:10 1 Peter 5:6

Why are governing body members lifted up as they are the least humble on Earth right now?

 

[savagewind]

Why do Psalms 146:3 and Matthew 24:13 not apply to governing body members?

You may say that governing body members actually must endure to the end like the rest of us. That would mean 1. some of them really aren't faithful and discreet and 2. some of them really aren't of the 144,000.

That means all Jehovah's Witnesses are OK with siding with liars, if they might be lying.

Matthew 12:34

 

[savagewind]

1 Peter 3:15 but the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses twist that scripture to make it say that it is righteous to ignore them who question your faith.

You "hope" that people will learn the truth, but when someone questions any doctrine of yours you ignore her.

How many times have I asked JWs to explain why Psalms 146:3 applies to everyone except those calling themselves faithful and discreet?

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

I guess it depends on if they are up for religious debates.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

They left because the church leaders told them to.
every so often a new one turns up who has not heard the instructions.

To me, it shows an aspect of their weakness and fear of "contamination"

Or they are afraid to learn about a new religion like Satanism. Just saying.
Satanism is not really a new religion. It is an old religion.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Ah, but will Jesus pick you?

(Matthew 7:21-23)

Yes He has! You see, I confess Jesus as my Lord and Savior.

Luke 12:8-9 (NKJV) 8 " Also I say to you, whoever confesses Me before men, him the Son of Man also will confess before the angels of God. 9 But he who denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.


I believe there is no other name as important as the name of Jesus and salvation is only thru Jesus. Not Jehovah, not the watchtower, not the 'slave'.

Act 4:12 (NKJV) 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."


This is what people need to know for salvation, not that their only hope is to live on paradise earth. People need to know that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, not a group of men that claim they are Christs "substitutes".

1Co 15:1-4 (ESVST) 1 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you— unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,


Psa 118:8-9 (ESVST) 8 It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in man. 9 It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in princes.

Psa 146:3-4 (ESVST) 3 Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no salvation. 4 When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish.

 

[Demonslayer]

Wonder??? Why my J.W. friends left this site?

Maybe they are among the 900 JW's per year who die from refusing blood transfusion for religious reasons, like this one lady who killed her baby over it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ant-cancer-80-chance-surviving-treatment.html

Special beliefs are special.

 

[Deeje]

Wonder??? Why my J.W. friends left this site?

Maybe they are among the 900 JW's per year who die from refusing blood transfusion for religious reasons, like this one lady who killed her baby over it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ant-cancer-80-chance-surviving-treatment.html

Special beliefs are special.

That is the biggest load of garbage I have ever read. Where do you get a figure of 900 Witnesses who die because they refuse blood? That is complete hogwash!
That should read that some Witnesses die as a result of doctors refusing to implement other measures to avoid blood transfusion. There are numerous ways to treat patients without blood. Some doctors refuse to treat Witness patients altogether unless they agree to the use of blood. This simply demonstrates their incompetence and a failure to keep up to speed on the latest techniques.

What "news" this story tells me is that this woman had very incompetent medical treatment. If she was near term, she would not have refused a C-section; what she would have refused is the transfusion that the doctors insisted go with it. Had she been treated by doctors who were willing to respect her wishes and operate without blood, the life of the child could well have been saved, even if the mother's leukemia was not treatable.

The media is not noted for telling the truth.

May I direct you to the thread on the efficacy of blood transfusions and doctors who are now trying to change medical practice and the routine use of blood.

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/are-blood-transfusions-really-life-saving.187077/

Times change...medical techniques change,,,,doctors need to keep up.

 

[Demonslayer]

That is the biggest load of garbage I have ever read. Where do you get a figure of 900 Witnesses who die because they refuse blood? That is complete hogwash!

Just because you may wish it weren't true doesn't make it not true.

People refuse modern medical treatment for medical reasons, and they die. Hey, it's their choice and I'm not trying to take that choice away from them. That's 900 fewer religious people mucking up the world.

https://www.quora.com/How-many-Jeho...y-year-because-they-refuse-blood-transfusions

That should read that some Witnesses die as a result of doctors refusing to implement other measures to avoid blood transfusion. There are numerous ways to treat patients without blood.

Not if blood is what they need. There are ways to treat cancer that don't involve radiation and chemotherapy...yet if you need chemotherapy and refuse it, you'll likely die despite any other treatments you might take.

Don't worry, it's not just JW's killing their children, the Christian Scientists are right there too.

 

[Deeje]

Just because you may wish it weren't true doesn't make it not true.

People refuse modern medical treatment for medical reasons, and they die. Hey, it's their choice and I'm not trying to take that choice away from them. That's 900 fewer religious people mucking up the world.

Nice. What about the idiots who choose a lifestyle that promotes ill health leading to death....are we glad to be rid of them too?

According to the OP in the blood transfusion thread, it is doctors who are warning of "morbidity" (bad outcome with complications) and "mortality" (death) from blood transfusions.
This is not something made up by JW's.

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/are-blood-transfusions-really-life-saving.187077/

https://www.quora.com/How-many-Jeho...y-year-because-they-refuse-blood-transfusions

https://www.quora.com/How-many-Jeho...y-year-because-they-refuse-blood-transfusions
From a "former" JW...what else.

Seriously.

Here is a comment from your link...in case you missed it.

"Thanks to Jehovah's Witnesses stand on this matter a whole field of Bloodless Surgery has developed. If you do some due diligence you will find that people who opt for Bloodless Surgery have a higher rate of survival as well as a better quality of life due to less complications in the months following the surgery. I have chosen the following links in support of this. The second two links are from Jehovah's witnesses website. The first one is from PBS. Here is a quote from the transcript: "The policy grew out of the need of Jehovah's Witnesses, and now it has become the hospital's preferred method of surgery for all patients." To me that speaks volumes. If one continues to research Bloodless Surgery vs. Blood Transfusions, one would find that the whole reason that there is a field of bloodless surgery is because of Jehovah's Witnesses firm resolve to abstain from blood in keeping with the commands of the Creator. One would also find that due to this, many others who don't share their beliefs also now benefit from this safer and cleaner method of surgery. But hey, don't take my word for it, if you really want to know the truth about something, you have to research the facts yourself.

Not if blood is what they need. There are ways to treat cancer that don't involve radiation and chemotherapy...yet if you need chemotherapy and refuse it, you'll likely die despite any other treatments you might take.

Chemo is no guarantee of saving life....neither is blood. Do you have stats on how many people have died "because" they had a blood transfusion? Doctors can bury their mistakes you know.

Don't worry, it's not just JW's killing their children, the Christian Scientists are right there too.

What a horrid thing to say.

JW's are by far better parents than most. We do not reject medical treatment nor do we even "allow" our children to die. In case you haven't realized, minor children can be removed from the custody of JW parents if ignorant doctors seek a court order to force a transfusion. Fortunately for us, we have a growing list of doctors who are now happy to treat us and our children without blood.

Posting some old newspaper story is a bit sad.

 

[savagewind]

Twisting scripture defined. To make what is written fit a certain agenda.

The agenda of Jehovah's Witnesses is to keep one's self apart from worldly politics and weak morals, to make more Jehovah's Witnesses and to endure to the end.

They won't talk about the possibility that they misunderstand any scripture and they use what is written about Jesus being silent when questioned as their reason that it is God's will that they do so.

The scriptures which show that Jesus remained silent were about who he was. He remained silent then because it takes faith to believe who he is imo so answering them would have been a waste of time. When anyone asked him about scripture, he answered them. Luke 12:13-15 Matthew 19:3-6

I am asking you to do what Jesus did and you won't. How is that a sheep?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Ah, but will Jesus pick you?

(Matthew 7:21-23)

Rom 8:8-11 (ESVST) 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

Everyone knows that only 144,000 JW's are supposed to have the 'Spirit', so who do you belong to? If you don't have the Spirit, you don't belong to God.