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"Word of God" & discrepancies???
- Thread starter benign6
- Start date
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Neither the original Hebrew nor the Greek contain punctuation of any kind. Punctuation (and even vowel pointing, in the case of Hebrew) was added later. And now, we're reading a translation of a translation because it's inspired? It seems to me that if the original was not imspired, then anything gleaned from it could not be inspired either.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Benign said:
Which passage do you think is "correct?" Obviously, one would have to accept one stance as truth and the other as falsehood. Right?
The correct answer is that both passages are correct, in the sense that they each reflect a different tradition. One cannot lump all Biblical traditions together and pit one against the other. The Bible contains a record of all of them for the sake of posterity -- in order to preserve the traditions. They are to be seen as different facets of the whole people of God.
Perhaps we shouldn't take such a legalistic stance on the Biblical scriptures -- especially if they are not our scriptures.
Which passage do you think is "correct?" Obviously, one would have to accept one stance as truth and the other as falsehood. Right?
The correct answer is that both passages are correct, in the sense that they each reflect a different tradition. One cannot lump all Biblical traditions together and pit one against the other. The Bible contains a record of all of them for the sake of posterity -- in order to preserve the traditions. They are to be seen as different facets of the whole people of God.
Perhaps we shouldn't take such a legalistic stance on the Biblical scriptures -- especially if they are not our scriptures.
Sonic247
Well-Known Member
God allowed Satan to tempt David, God ultimately controlls everything but that doesn't mean no one else does anything, Kings and chronicles were written from two diffrent perspective but that doesn't mean there are not any explanations, for example if there is 3 barns for horses with a hundred stalls in each one is it three stables or three hundred. Or for IISamuel 10:18 for example it says 700 chariots, if there is ten people in each chariot. And if these number really are wrong it doesn't effect any theological concept in the Bible, why would numbers in the old testament be an indacation that Christians inserted the diety of Christ in the new, or that verses were changed at all, even for those verses because if they were changed it would be to make them seem to go together better not worse.
benign6
Member
don't disagree?????? One says sleeping with brother's wife result in CHILDLESSNESS & other says opposite,
& where it mentions brother is NOT dead in 1st one???????????????????? it is a general rule whether dead or not.
benign6
Member
it's NOT 2 seperate incidences, it's same incidence described in 2 places in bible. Perhaps the writers of bible weren't sure whether it was God or Satan !!! If bible was inspired from God thru Holy Ghost onto writers of bible then perhaps God himself forgot whether it was He or satan, Alzheimers perhaps !!!
it does affect theological concepts , as discrepancies confirm that biblwas not inspired by real GOD, coz HE CAN NOT make mistakes.
what a theory!!! that difference in numbers will make them seem go toghter well !!!!...... wow..... i am NOT intelligent enough to understand this concept. If i tell my one child that there r 10 chairs in our house & tell other child that there r 15 chairs , How in the world does it serve any good purpose. & If i tell my children that GOD told me this thru his Holy Spirit, then What i'm doing is nothing BUT A BIG LIE..........................
........same way bible was NOT written by Jesus nor the writers of bible were inspired by God thru Holy Spirit .... they only collected stories from different sources & compiles over 1500 years & then told ppl that Holy Spirit inspired them.
Quran:2:79:"Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.
JayHawes
Active Member
I suggest that you take the time out to study the Hebrew culture and the significance of the Mosaic Law for yourself. I want you to actually study it and understand it becuase you just can't seem to get the basics of the Law into your head (not an insult). I cannot discuss fully with you unless you understand- i doubt that you have actually studied the context of where you are quoting from. Since you have not studied I know why you dont understand.
JayHawes
Active Member
You do not understand the nature of God and how he relates to the spirits, and satan, and devils. Since you are void of this understanding you fall short of understanding the verses of the difficult verses of the bible. I have three things to write:
1) First of all you're not quoting the whole verse, stop eliminating whole portions of what you quote...so that you may take it out of context.
2) The whole of 2 Smauel 24:1 reads:
"And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah"
From what you typed you taught the idea that the verse said "God told David to number Israel" but in truth it does not say such.
3) Who or what was this anger?
[SIZE=+1]!tX [/SIZE]Satan (saw-tawn'); Noun Masculine, Strong #: 7854
- adversary, one who withstands
- adversary (in general - personal or national)
- superhuman adversary
- Satan (as noun pr)
An example can be found in Numbers 22:22
And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary (hebrew- Satan) against him. Now he was riding upon his donkey, and his two servants were with him.
This verse shows that because God's anger was kindles, God allowed an adversary (satan) to come. Thus, the contridiction that you supposedly found, was no contradiction at all.
JayHawes
Active Member
Benign If you're going to say we have errors first, dont be deceptive and post lies here. Post things that are true and accurate so we can discuss intelligently. Not about somethng one of us does not understand, but about something that we can grasp and get ahold of. I do not appreciate what you did in your last post, you are eliminating whole parts of verses and giving the idea that it says something that it does not. That dissapoints me.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I don't understand what you think the Bible is. Don't you see that these are two different accounts from two different sources, probably from two different traditions surrounding the same event? The Biblical authors were not as concerned with "making the facts jive with each other" as they were with preserving as much of the different oral traditions as they could. These stories had all been told hundreds and hundreds of years before being written down. many of them hail from much older Assyrian and Babylonian myth. You see, it was the stories -- not the facts themselves that were important to the Biblical writers (and should be important to us, as well).
Sonic247
Well-Known Member
I never said it was two seprate instances I said God allowed Satan to do it, even Satan is used as part of God's plan.
But your trying to say Christians added the theology that says Jesus is an incarnation of God and giving numbers that their would be no need of changing as evidence for that.
I'm not sure exactly what you're saying, you said our translators changed the words in the Bible, and giving diffrent numbers as evidence, if they changed them it would be to make them the same, so it is only evidence that they honestly wrote down what they got
Are you counting the ones on the porch or not, it is possible for two people writing from two diffrent perspective to have discrepencies while still being truthful
Your talking about books that showed the history of what God did in the nation of Israel, they were inspired to understand what God did but they could now how many horses someone had for themselves.
Or not.
Galatians 3:10-11-
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
This is what this whole thing is really all about, the fact that Jesus had to die for our sins, God will not have respect of persons in judgement or judge based on what mood he is in or justify the unrighteous, the holiness of God demands a payment for sins, if you have sinned (have you kept all the commandments of the Quran or the Bible) then God will judge it, but if Jesus died for them then they are already judged.
Caina
Apostate Heretic
I like the frozen orange and a straight razor
Benign - Do you not realize what you are doing? You are trying to find small contradictions even though there are none - and neglecting to look at the consistent messages given throughout the Bible. When two people record an event, there will be differences. If someone asked me if I went to the movies today, I could say "yes" or "yeah I went with Tom" (because Tom seemed more important to me) or "yes I went with a group of friends."
The Bible has 40 some authors spanning over a 1000 years and its truly amazing that the fundamental message is the same throughout. If you want to keep looking for small things then go for it but you are lacking perspective.
The Bible has 40 some authors spanning over a 1000 years and its truly amazing that the fundamental message is the same throughout. If you want to keep looking for small things then go for it but you are lacking perspective.
Caina
Apostate Heretic
Not at all, details are very important more to some than others. In a police investigation small descepancies create suspiscion. And the message is dependant on the person reading it, we dont all walk away from it with the same message. And their are plenty of small problems, from simple counting to number of children, to number of witnesses, from time of day, to time of year. The message you claim it represents is not universal, this is clearly seen by the wide gap between churches and followers
JayHawes
Active Member
Not at all, details are very important more to some than others. In a police investigation small descepancies create suspiscion. And the message is dependant on the person reading it, we dont all walk away from it with the same message. And their are plenty of small problems, from simple counting to number of children, to number of witnesses, from time of day, to time of year. The message you claim it represents is not universal, this is clearly seen by the wide gap between churches and followers
Small discepancies does not proove the story false. The prison is full of men and women convicted guilty becuase of "discrepencies" who are actually innocent of the charge.
Caina
Apostate Heretic
I didnt say false. When a story has these descrepancies, its called loosing credability. Doesnt mean false, means not wholly trustworthy. If two equally valued witness' describe a perpetraitor in two different colors of clothes, then obviously one of them is lying
Caina
Apostate Heretic
It would be lying. Even if it was missperception it is still not the truth. Subjective truth is not worth much. What some think is truth is just lies clouded in mystery.......The door swings both ways