Word Usage Survey

[Copernicus]

I am curious about your understanding of the words "theist", "atheist" and "agnostic". Please just answer the following questions according to your understanding of the words "theist", "atheist", and "agnostic".

1. Given that a baby does not have a concept of a "god", which of the following is most true?

A) The baby is a theist.
B) The baby is an atheist.
C) The baby is an agnostic.
D) None of the above.

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2) If someone uses the following expressions, what would you infer about Bob's beliefs with respect to the moon landing?

A) Regarding the moon landing, Bob considers himself an agnostic.
B) Regarding the moon landing, Bob considers himself an atheist.

Feel free to explain your answers, but please give your answers before you elaborate on them.

 

[Alceste]

If you make this a poll it'll be easier to get your tally.

The baby is an atheist because "atheist" is an accurate description for anybody who isn't a theist.

 

[YmirGF]

1. Given that a baby does not have a concept of a "god", which of the following is most true?

D) None of the above. A baby has no concept of the topic and so the only answer that is reasonable is D.

2) If someone uses the following expressions, what would you infer about Bob's beliefs with respect to the moon landing?

A) Regarding the moon landing, Bob considers himself an agnostic.
B) Regarding the moon landing, Bob considers himself an atheist.

Feel free to explain your answers, but please give your answers before you elaborate on them.

I'd be inclined to state that the person who asked the question, given the narrow field of answers, is likely out of their gourd.

 

[Madhuri]

1. Baby is an atheist. It lacks a belief in a divine entity as it has no concept of one.

2. a) Bob is unsure about the moon landing.
b) Bob does not believe that the moon landing occurred

(although seriously, those terms are related to spirituality, not just anything)

'theist' is the belief in a divinity of some description
'atheist' is a lack of belief or disbelief in a divinity
'agnostic' is the awareness of beliefs in a divinity but an uncertainty of what is truth

 

[Alceste]

I'd be inclined to state that the person who asked the question, given the narrow field of answers, is likely out of their gourd.

Lol, me too. Considering that the moon landing has nothing to do with the existence of god or claims of the accessibility of ultimate knowledge, the question betrays a surprising ignorance of Greek linguistics....

... for a linguist.

 

[shoinan]

1. Baby is an atheist. It may not be useful to describe the baby this way, but it is technically without belief in a god. Therefore, atheist.

2. So moon landings are gods now?
FWIW, A and B aren't mutually exclusive. Even if Bob is nuts.

 

[Penumbra]

I am curious about your understanding of the words "theist", "atheist" and "agnostic". Please just answer the following questions according to your understanding of the words "theist", "atheist", and "agnostic".

1. Given that a baby does not have a concept of a "god", which of the following is most true?

A) The baby is a theist.
B) The baby is an atheist.
C) The baby is an agnostic.
D) None of the above.

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B and C. The baby doesn't have belief in gods, is therefore not a theist, and therefore is an atheist. In addition, the baby likely does not have knowledge concerning gods, is therefore not a gnostic, and therefore according to some definitions, is an agnostic.

2) If someone uses the following expressions, what would you infer about Bob's beliefs with respect to the moon landing?

A) Regarding the moon landing, Bob considers himself an agnostic.
B) Regarding the moon landing, Bob considers himself an atheist.

Feel free to explain your answers, but please give your answers before you elaborate on them.

A) Bob doesn't have knowledge concerning the moon landing.
B) Bob doesn't know what he's talking about. Theism has to do with deities, and the moon landing has nothing to do with deities.

 

[methylatedghosts]

I'm going to go with D on the first one. The baby has no concept of the whole thing, and has no real say in the matter.

 

[Breathe]

1. Given that a baby does not have a concept of a "god", which of the following is most true?
<<snip>>

I'd say D: the baby knows nothing of God, or gods, let alone whether they exist.

2) If someone uses the following expressions, what would you infer about Bob's beliefs with respect to the moon landing?

A) Uncertain, with a leaning towards 'I can't know for sure without more evidence'
B) He doesn't believe it happened.


I would, however, wonder why he used "atheist" to describe something that does not describe theism. Agnosticism I'd be more open to letting it be, but I'd let him get on with it. However, my teacher said do not be prescriptive with language.

 

[Engyo]

I am curious about your understanding of the words "theist", "atheist" and "agnostic". Please just answer the following questions according to your understanding of the words "theist", "atheist", and "agnostic".

1. Given that a baby does not have a concept of a "god", which of the following is most true?

A) The baby is a theist.
B) The baby is an atheist.
C) The baby is an agnostic.
D) None of the above.

----------------------------------------------------------------

D is the only possible answer, since a baby has not yet had the opportunity to understand any of the concepts involved, and all of the three other choices require understanding.

2) If someone uses the following expressions, what would you infer about Bob's beliefs with respect to the moon landing?

A) Regarding the moon landing, Bob considers himself an agnostic.
B) Regarding the moon landing, Bob considers himself an atheist.

Feel free to explain your answers, but please give your answers before you elaborate on them.

A: Bob is not sure that the moon landings happened.
B: is a non-sequiter that doesn't compute.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I gave responses in the other thread already, but for completeness' sake, here you go:

1. Given that a baby does not have a concept of a "god", which of the following is most true?

A) The baby is a theist.
B) The baby is an atheist.
C) The baby is an agnostic.
D) None of the above.

B.

Depending on the definition of "agnostic" being used, C may also be true, but I'd say that the "most true" answer is B.

2) If someone uses the following expressions, what would you infer about Bob's beliefs with respect to the moon landing?

A) Regarding the moon landing, Bob considers himself an agnostic.

Uncertainty - "Bob doesn't know whether the moon landing happened."

B) Regarding the moon landing, Bob considers himself an atheist.

I don't know how to interpret it. Like I said in the other thread, I don't think I've ever encountered someone using the term "atheist" that way.

I'd prefer to ask what he meant, but if I had to assume an intended meaning based only on that sentence, it'd be either "Bob doesn't think that God caused the moon landing" (as a way of saying that it was a human acheivement and not a "miracle", maybe?) or "Bob believes that the moon landing didn't happen."

In the right context, I might want to interpret it as "Bob does not consider himself a 'true believer' about the moon landing"... if it made sense with what came before that isolated statement.

However, any interpretation involves me trying to do my best to infer an intended meaning from a rather confused use of the word.

I think it's worth pointing out that your structure of the second statement may confuse the issue: "Bob considers himself an atheist" implies a conscious or wilful decision on the part of Bob in a way that "Bob is an atheist" doesn't. You can be an atheist without realizing it; you can't consider yourself an atheist without realizing it.

Also - and this may just be a side issue for this discussion - by phrasing them the way you did, you've made both statements dependent not on an objective definition of the term "atheist" or "agnostic", but on Bob's understanding, and (IMO) introduce the potential for the speaker's view and Bob's view to be different. An example that shows this more clearly would be "Bob considers himself God's gift to women." Statement (B) can still be phrased this way even if the speaker thinks that Bob's use of the word "atheist" is completely wrong.

I'm not sure how relevant it is here, but I thought it was interesting given our discussion in the other thread about established definitions vs. individual understandings of words.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

1. Given that a baby does not have a concept of a "god", which of the following is most true?

A) The baby is a theist.
B) The baby is an atheist.
C) The baby is an agnostic.
D) None of the above.

B) the baby is an atheist (by default). the only answer that could apply to one who has no concept or belief in regards to gods would be "atheist" because theism is the positive claim that personal dieties exist, and agnosticism is the claim that there is not enough information available or understanding we are capable of, as humans, to make a decision either way. atheism is simply a lack of beliefs and is the only stance that a baby having no context with which to understand the concept is capable of.
i understand why some people jump to the conclusion of calling the baby an agnostic because they are using a slightly different definition than i do (that agnosticism is the stance of uncertainty, rather than the certainty that the subject will forever remain uncertain), but i personally interpret the definition to be more complex than simply a lack of certainty on the subject. if someone is not certain of whether they believe that gods exist or not then they are still an atheist, because they are not committing to theism. one does not have to posit that gods DO NOT exist to be an atheist, but until they commit to the positive claim that gods DO exist then they remain an atheist. leaving our baby in the atheist pile until it's old enough to commit.

2) If someone uses the following expressions, what would you infer about Bob's beliefs with respect to the moon landing?

A) Regarding the moon landing, Bob considers himself an agnostic.
B) Regarding the moon landing, Bob considers himself an atheist.

A) Some definitions do relate agnositicsm to an unavailabilty of certainty in many areas of thinking, meaning Bob could loosely believe that there is no way for us to ever know if we've landed on the moon or not.
B) I liked Penguin's answer about Bob believing that the moon landing was a naturalistic endeavor rather than a miraculous assist from a diety. But i would probably stick with saying "Bob does not believe there are gods on the moon either."

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

1. Given that a baby does not have a concept of a "god", which of the following is most true?

A) The baby is a theist.
B) The baby is an atheist.
C) The baby is an agnostic.
D) None of the above.

So... just for everyone who's keeping track at home, here's the tally of votes so far:

A) 0
B) 5.5*
C) 0.5*
D) 4

*One vote was for "B and C"; I split it as two half-votes for each.

 

[outhouse]

D is the only possible answer, since a baby has not yet had the opportunity to understand any of the concepts involved, and all of the three other choices require understanding.

I find that wrong. but im B

either one is a theist or not, with a choice of im not sure.

the baby is definatly not a theist and doesnt know about a choice.

that leaves atheist

if its D what answer would you give for the question. ????? well the baby has a lack of belief ? we know the answer there. what if the baby was isolated from the public for 30 years? would you still say D???

 

[bobhikes]

Atheist, theist and Agnostic are terms we give ourselves based on our knowledge of the terms.

Babies have no knowledge of the terms or of god and should not be labeled until they can label themselves.

It would be like labeling a baby a racist because he/she will only allow one ethnicity to hold him/her without crying.

Part 2 I'm Bob and I have been labeled an atheist, agnostic and theist in my life. All those times I believed that men landed on the moon.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Babies have no knowledge of the terms or of god and should not be labeled until they can label themselves.

Is "neither an atheist nor a theist" a label?

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

Atheist, theist and Agnostic are terms we give ourselves based on our knowledge of the terms.

Babies have no knowledge of the terms or of god and should not be labeled until they can label themselves.

i have to disagree with you there. Theist is a label one puts on themselves, Agnostic is a label that one puts on themselves, because the two are actual BELIEFS. it is impossible to be described as either by default. Atheist is a label that is attributed to those without belief in gods, regardless of the persons knowledge of gods or understanding of the concept. if a person does not claim that they believe that gods exist, for any reason, then the label of 'Atheist' is applicable.

if somebody DOES NOT dryclean their shirts, then they dont dryclean their shirts. it doesn't matter if they have knowledge of drycleaners or not, or if they own shirts or not, they dont do it.

 

[Revoltingest]

I pick "B".
The baby would have no opinion about gods, & therefore would not believe in them.
This fits one definition of "atheist".
Agnosticism seems less appropriate, since it involves a decision about what is not knowable.

 

[bobhikes]

i have to disagree with you there. Theist is a label one puts on themselves, Agnostic is a label that one puts on themselves, because the two are actual BELIEFS. it is impossible to be described as either by default. Atheist is a label that is attributed to those without belief in gods, regardless of the persons knowledge of gods or understanding of the concept. if a person does not claim that they believe that gods exist, for any reason, then the label of 'Atheist' is applicable.

if somebody DOES NOT dryclean their shirts, then they dont dryclean their shirts. it doesn't matter if they have knowledge of drycleaners or not, or if they own shirts or not, they dont do it.

I've been down this road before. I can't label you an atheist unless you first tell me you don't believe in God or have no knowledge of god. If you don't tell me all I can do is assume.

As I can't speak to a baby I can not know their thoughts. You have decide to assume that they do not know god. I have decide to allow them there free choice.

 

[Alceste]

So... just for everyone who's keeping track at home, here's the tally of votes so far:

A) 0
B) 5.5*
C) 0.5*
D) 4

*One vote was for "B and C"; I split it as two half-votes for each.

Woot!

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