Word Usage Survey

[Copernicus]

Outside of these ridiculous threads about babies being atheists, I've never encountered anyone who has expressed such a thing. I expect that you're wrong. Anyway, your response really has nothing to do with what I said.

Actually, the reason I raised the issue is that I have seen atheists make this claim about babies many times before in debates, and not just in this forum. It has always struck me as the product of Procrustean thinking about atheism, but I am learning new things from this discussion. I've tried the "baby" survey in another atheist forum, but without any attempt to bring up definitions. In that survey, so far, 8 people vote "neither label is appropriate" and one person votes for "agnostic". Nobody has yet argued for "atheist". In yet a third forum, the vote is evenly split. It seems that discussions often change how people who come to the question late will vote. It you remind folks of the "lacks belief" definition, more tend to approve the "atheist" label.

If you've been reading for comprehension, then this should be your understanding of my usage based on all my posts. My posts regarding the definition of atheism are not incompatible with this view in any way. If you can find a single example of me posting something that is inconsistent with this perspective, then feel free to point it out. Otherwise, please refrain from repeatedly making incorrect judgments and assumptions about what I say.

Kilgore, I respect your judgment most of the time, and I certainly think that you know your mind better than I do. I have formed an opinion of what you think based on past posts, and I fully admit that it may be incorrect. TBH, I do not think I know my mind on my own linguistic usage as well as you think you know yours. There is an old saying in linguistics--"Intuition is notoriously a fire in a wooden stove." It is important to look at objective data, even when you have strong suspicions about what the result will be. So please don't be offended when I try to separate your intuitions about linguistic usage from actual usage. I'm not trying to tell you what you think. I'm just telling you what I think. I'm open to being convinced otherwise, but your "blue shirt" argument and some of the others you've raised do not impress me very much. And--yes--I fully realize that you have not been impressed by my arguments.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

And--yes--I fully realize that you have not been impressed by my arguments.

Most of the time I agree with much of what you say, but, to be honest, in terms of the current discussion, it's not so much a matter of not being impressed by your arguments, as much as it is that I don't really get what much of your argument is supposed to be.

And, I realize the blue shirt is a simple argument, but the fact of the matter is nobody has refuted it as an example of the logical differentiation between not believing X and believing not X. I simply bring it up as many people in these discussions sincerely do not seem to understand the logical difference between the two.

You seem to be making the same mistake with me as many people on these boards do by projecting more onto my words than what I'm actually saying.

 

[Copernicus]

You seem to be making the same mistake with me as many people on these boards do by projecting more onto my words than what I'm actually saying.

You know, I agree with you about that. It is very easy to rephrase what other people say in a way that makes that person look less reasonable. You haven't been doing that to me as much as a couple of others have. I just have to struggle not to do the same to other people and have a thicker skin when they do it to me. FWIW, I think that we are very close on our beliefs about gods. This has been largely a dispute over language, and you know that I am less likely than others to stop talking about language.

It is interesting that the statistics are now back to a virtual dead heat. I have tried this survey on 2 other religion-debating boards, and one (TurnLeft@yuku) is in about the same place with a slight favor to "does not apply". The other (Secular Cafe) has most people so far opting for "does not apply".