Word Usage Survey

[yourhopeboundheart]

I laugh.

i wanted to die.
but more importantly, i think i heard that baby mention that he was an atheist, even after witnessing hover bacon.
team b wins.

 

[Magic Man]

I'm of the opinion that talking about the beliefs of human that has yet to acquire a sense of self-identity is a category error.

Follow-up question, if you don't mind.

An adult who has never heard of gods and (obviously) doesn't believe in them. Would you consider him an atheist?

 

[YmirGF]

I'm of the opinion that talking about the beliefs of human that has yet to acquire a sense of self-identity is a category error.

BIngo.

A baby doesn't have the capacity to understand any of the concepts, so none of them can apply. In my view, it is dishonest to label a baby as being an atheist. It simply doesn't know what is being talked about. Likewise, due to limitations in communications it is impossible for us to discern a baby's sentiments on the matter. Therefore D, is the only reasonable choice.

 

[Magic Man]

BIngo.

A baby doesn't have the capacity to understand any of the concepts, so none of them can apply. In my view, it is dishonest to label a baby as being an atheist. It simply doesn't know what is being talked about. Likewise, due to limitations in communications it is impossible for us to discern a baby's sentiments on the matter. Therefore D, is the only reasonable choice.

That's assuming the baby needs to have an idea about gods to be labelled one way or the other. If you use the definition "one who lacks belief in gods" for "atheist", a baby would fit, since one doesn't need to have any ideas about gods to lack belief in them.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm of the opinion that talking about the beliefs of human that has yet to acquire a sense of self-identity is a category error.

No more than it would be to talk about the athletic abilities of a human that hasn't yet gained control over its own limbs... but it would still be correct to say that a baby is not a hurdler.

 

[Copernicus]

Everyone who has not yet answered: Please give a letter response first and then explain it.

I refrained from adding my vote earlier, because I did not want to prejudice responses, but here it is:

1. D
2. A is ambivalent about the moon landing. B does not think that moon landing happened.

If you make this a poll it'll be easier to get your tally.

I looked in vain for a way to make a poll in an RF forum. Unless I missed something obvious, that isn't allowed. Unfortunately, that allows respondents to answer the question in a meandering way rather than giving us reliable yes-no responses.

I would regard any A,B,C answer to favor Penguin's approach to meaning in the other thread. It is interesting that most in that category are atheists, but not all. I would expect a survey of the general population to be less close to a dead heat, but it's good to get some responses.

The metaphorical extension question did not work as well as the "baby" survey, but that is probably because there was not enough context to make either sentence sound natural. Also, the extension of "agnostic" already occurs in non-theistic contexts, whereas "atheist" seldom does. So most people don't seem happy with extending it that way. I actually think that the metaphorical extension test is a good one, but it needs more work to use it effectively in a survey.

 

[doppelganger]

Follow-up question, if you don't mind.

An adult who has never heard of gods and (obviously) doesn't believe in them. Would you consider him an atheist?

Yes I do.

 

[Copernicus]

That's assuming the baby needs to have an idea about gods to be labelled one way or the other. If you use the definition "one who lacks belief in gods" for "atheist", a baby would fit, since one doesn't need to have any ideas about gods to lack belief in them.

I would ask that people not base their choices on any specific definition but just answer the questions according to what they intuitively feel is a right answer. I know that that is hard to do, but the idea is to explore what you do say rather than what you think you ought to say.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I looked in vain for a way to make a poll in an RF forum. Unless I missed something obvious, that isn't allowed.

When you're on the "Post New Thread" page, scroll down below the message window to "Additional Options". In that section, there's an "Add a Poll" feature. If you click the check box, when you hit the button to create your new thread, you'll be brought to a new page to create your poll.

Edit: normally, you can't add a poll to a thread once you've created it, but I have magical admin powers. Would you like me to add a poll to this thread?

For the sake of simplicity for the poll, I'm thinking it'd be best just to constrain it to your first question. Does that work for you?

 

[YmirGF]

That's assuming the baby needs to have an idea about gods to be labelled one way or the other. If you use the definition "one who lacks belief in gods" for "atheist", a baby would fit, since one doesn't need to have any ideas about gods to lack belief in them.

But that is just getting absurd, Mball. The baby has no concrete ideas on anything, whereas atheism is more often than not, learned behavior based on a reasoning process.

 

[Riverwolf]

Possibly B, but the atheism of a baby isn't the same as the atheism of an adult who deliberately chooses not to believe in God-concepts. So I think it's technically B, but more accurate to say D.

The atheism of an adult who is aware of God-concepts is deliberately an atheist. However, a baby doesn't have any sort of conceptual thought, yet, and therefore has no choice.

But I would argue that this only applies to newborns. From what I've seen, as well as what I can glean from my own subconscious view of my parents, babies and possibly young children tend to look on their parents as gods. (All-knowing, immortal, perfect, etc.) I'm not sure if it's accurate to label such a thing as "theist", per se, but I don't think it's quite accurate to call them "atheists", either.

 

[outhouse]

im not even sure D is a valid answer.

are you 1 or 2 or a little in between is the question.

 

[outhouse]

Possibly B, but the atheism of a baby isn't the same as the atheism of an adult who deliberately chooses not to believe in God-concepts.

I would agree on that except that as a atheist I dont believe there is no god.

I have a lack of belief

do you think this D answer could be a little atheist stereotyping???

 

[Riverwolf]

I would agree on that except that as a atheist I dont believe there is no god.

I have a lack of belief

Aren't those kind of the same thing?

Lack of belief in God is pretty much synonymous with believing that there is no God, from my understanding.

 

[strikeviperMKII]

1. The baby is none of the above. You cannot believe or not believe in a thing you have no conception of.

2. A. Bob doesn't want to take the time to look into the moon landings, so he'd just as well leave them alone.
B. Atheist is the opposite of theist just as atypical is the typical. Your use here doesn't make sense...unless you are redefining 'theist' to 'one who thinks moon landings happened'.

 

[Copernicus]

Edit: normally, you can't add a poll to a thread once you've created it, but I have magical admin powers. Would you like me to add a poll to this thread?

For the sake of simplicity for the poll, I'm thinking it'd be best just to constrain it to your first question. Does that work for you?

Yes, please. That might mean that people need to re-register their votes.

I did not set the second one up as well, and it isn't structured for multiple choice. So that can be left off.

Thanks.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

But that is just getting absurd, Mball. The baby has no concrete ideas on anything, whereas atheism is more often than not, learned behavior based on a reasoning process.

i would only agree with you to the point that a person actively subscribes to atheism. by default though, i would say it's more reasonable that (at least throughout all of human history) more people have been atheists for lack of ever being introduced to god concepts, rather than from actively deciding that they do not believe in them. sure, in our current time and culture, most people who are atheists actively and intentionally arrive at the conclusion that gods do not exist - but that's not necessarily as likely as you go further back in time, since the main reason there are fewer default atheists in our culture is due to the prominence of god concepts in our culture.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes, please. That might mean that people need to re-register their votes.

Poll added! Vote away!

Yeah... I had to start the poll from zero, so if you voted with a post in the thread, you'll have to actually click on the poll for it to count there.

 

[Magic Man]

But that is just getting absurd, Mball. The baby has no concrete ideas on anything, whereas atheism is more often than not, learned behavior based on a reasoning process.

Oh, it's definitely not absurd. I understand that if you think of atheism as the rejection of theism, it wouldn't make sense to call a baby an atheist. However, if you just use the definition "one who lacks belief in gods", a baby fits the description.

 

[Magic Man]

Aren't those kind of the same thing?

Lack of belief in God is pretty much synonymous with believing that there is no God, from my understanding.

Not quite. Lack of belief in God just means you don't hold the belief that God exists. It doesn't mean you hold the belief that God doesn't exist.