Worshiping God in Short Skirts

[Deeje]

I understand. This is a cultural moral not universal. In some countries, you'll see people practically naked and that's normal.

I agree but those raised as Christians have a standard for modesty. We choose whether we abide by that standard.

Those raised in African or other indigenous cultures do not see the exposure of women's breasts to be shameful, but in western culture they are seen as sexual. It's the reproductive parts that are covered in most cultures.

You have up in PA Amish where it's the direct opposite. Then you have age differences. I can't paint a "god brush" on everyone. Shame isn't sinful. It's a natural reaction and it's not limited to revealing oneself without clothes. Some people walk around naked in their homes. Others go to nude beaches. I hear some say if they allowed it, they'd rather have a nude society.

I agree, but children usually reach an age in western culture where they want their privacy. If you try to parade around naked in public you can be arrested unless you are at a nude beach or camp environment where everyone is naked.

It's not wrong just our culture is so deep in Christianity that it leaves no free thought for people who don't share Christian morals. Very political and *cough cough * Roman.

Its not about right or wrong, but about how to conduct ourselves in a sinful world and keep morally "clean" in God's eyes. You can join the world or you can choose to stay within the boundaries set for Christians by the Creator. He is the one who calls the shots for those who worship him...others can do whatever they like....for now.

 

[Skwim]

1 Timothy 2:9-10:
"...the women should adorn themselves in appropriate dress, with modesty and soundness of mind, not with styles of hair braiding and gold or pearls or very expensive clothing,  but in the way that is proper for women professing devotion to God, namely, through good works."

1 Timothy2 also says

11 Let a woman learn with a quiet spirit, and submissively. 12 Moreover, in the area of teaching, I am not allowing a woman to instigate conflict toward a man. Instead, she is to remain calm.​

Think this is how women today should conduct themselves? Be submissive to men? . . . . . . . Never mind, I'm sure you do.

Respect for our Creator is demonstrated by how we groom ourselves.

Who says so? I haven't seen anything saying that dressing in a certain way is showing more respect for god than dressing in some other way. In 1 timothy 2 Paul is only saying what he want's, and with no explanation of why.

Would a man show up to a meeting with a head of state dressed in old shorts and a T-shirt? Would a woman dress in provocative clothing like a prostitute if she were to gain an audience with royalty?

Nor would showing up in church completely naked. But this isn't what's being talked about. We're talking about people who may go to church in otherwise community-acceptable attire.


.

 

[Skwim]

If a woman not a girl wore clothes that showed more skin that culturally appropriate here in America, they would view it as a sexual gesture.

Not what I'm talking about. I'm asking about necessarily dressing in a particular culturally appropriate way. Whether it's a short skirt, day dress, or blue jeans, some churches have dress codes against such attire. So my question is why is this important?


.

 

[McBell]

@Skwim

Christian Churches value modesty in dress. How one dresses or presents oneself to god shows how that person respects god not only in behavior but in how they approach him as well. It's also a way of "hiding" sin/flesh. My mother's mother wanted to die in a white dress. She felt that white (and many baptist church goers where white) is purity and cleanness in presence of god.

When we go to weddings, interviews, and formal occasions, we dress up. If Christians dress up for "men" why wouldn't Christians want to dress in their finest for their lord?

Interesting.
My grandmother always said that it is not the clothes you wear that god cares about.
It is the heart you hide beneath them he is looking at.

She went on to say the fancier the clothes, the more serious the sins being hidden.
She did also say there are exceptions to the rule, but they are few and far between.

 

[McBell]

No, try helping people out, it's even Christian.

Tis the start of the slippery slope that leads to victim blaming.

"I am not surprised she got raped.
look at how she dresses.
She has been asking for it for quite some time.
In fact, I am surprised it took this long to happen."​

 

[McBell]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/10/nude-church-white-tail-virginia_n_4763199.html

Seems to me that in a nudist church it would be disrespectful to wear clothing.

Which seems to point out that "modesty" is not in what you wear so much as how you act.

 

[Aštra’el]

Organized religions may be about God(s), but they are also about religion, and culture, and the people one worships with. These organized religions tend to develop particular standards of respect, established among their founders, leaders, or followers... standards that may evolve over time through the culture and collective Weltanschauung of those involved with the religion.

 

[Glaurung]

Anyone care to explain why dressing a particular way in church is so important?

Because it is not unreasonable that a church/temple/mosque/whatever should insist that those who enter ought to behave and present themselves in a way that is in accordance with their values. Restaurants have dress codes, so even more so should places of worship. (As much as you wouldn't think it these days). It's simply standards, as strange a concept for many today it seems.

 

[Ana.J]

Because being in church should evoke spiritual thoughts, not horny desires....kinda

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

George;

You don't want to distract the spiritual sense with sexuality. You go to spiritual places for spiritual experience and do not want to lose that focus. Modest dress that does not attract attention is best.

Interesting observation that seems true at the surface - but turns out to be a completely useless approach to spirituality I think - point being - we cannot IGNORE the human body that we are identified with - we cannot know the SPIRIT within until we first realise that we are not the body alone....To get to THAT level of understanding is best achieved by EMBRACING that which you are truly and NOT by shunning or ignoring certain aspects of Self as "undesirable"....See the Self as we truely are before we settle for these "judgements from others"..

We approach Our Father in a purely NAKED CONDITION - absolutely so - no clothes at all - not even the clothes of physical body - even THAT form and identity has been dropped when we encounter Him directly...do you see..??. What does clothes and attire REALLY matter then..??....

When will we know the truth they asked Him..?..When you STRIP NAKED and place your clothes under your feet and trample them and dance upon them, without shame as the children do - then the Father will be revealed... I paraphrase here - but check out Thomas and see Christ say it originally....You are NOT supposed to hide from your Self - but the opposite - come to know your Self FULLY and COMPLETELY - this issue of the physical clothes we wear for modesty is really an issue of hiding the Self away behind adopted and learned enforced identities as we adopt the persona that THEY allow us and compel us to be..

To experience the truth of our spiritual existance though - commune directly with spirit - means we must go far far beyond that mortal Self identity - embrace it own it fully then surpass it to become the eternal Self... It REQUIRES always Self honesty - and being naked and UNASHAMED is all part of that Self honest appraisal....Now when Christ speaks above He means just as I say - drop every concern - even the BODY IDENTITY entirely - step outside of the physical body and ITS identity and concerns, ENTIRELY - when we do this with confidence then we approach the Divine... The MORTAL mind does NOT have spiritual experiences

As I say Our Father is SPIRIT that CAUSE our very existance - He already gave you a form to wear and HE is not ashamed OF that form is He..??..why then are WE..??..

The first legitimate spiritual practices were nearly always performed naked and unashamed - shamans and the like gave rise to ALL the modern "religious confusion"...In our NATURAL state of mind we do NOT hold this shame and guilt at all - it is a SOCIETY learned response....If you worry and obsess about these purely mortal mundane issues then you will NEVER attain the state of mind that allows direct communion with the Divine... Identify with the BODY and mortal world so fully and the eternal SPIRITUAL world will remain obscure.. However - see past the body and physical circumstances and become confident in the Self - the body will then hold no dominion any longer...Indeed, then and only then will you be able to LEAVE THE BODY ENTIRELY and finally be free to encounter your truth..

It wont matter at all if the church is naked or dressed in hijabs head to toe - for the truth is you are NOT the body - and until you realise this fully by LEAVING the body and knowing the truth of Self in spirit, then you can NOT even begin the approach to the Father at all.... Holding to - clinging to - body identity and ITS concerns - will ALWAYS stifle and prohibit the spiritual truth of Self....Therefore do as Christ says - naked and unashamed - you will dance with joy at what you find the Self to truly Be...

( you can only get "horny" thoughts in a church enviroment IF you are not used to being around sexual circumstances - the very fact the church goer SURPRESSES their natural Self and shuns it IS the very thing that gives them distress when they see a short skirt for instance...Had they had enough exposure to the natural body form that they become comfortable with Self then this knee jerk reaction to a bit of naked flesh would not happen...The shunning and avoiding of the sexual element is a definate SPIRITUAL OBSTACLE and a handicap to the church going religious type - To the SPIRITUAL mind though, the body could indeed be fully naked and the mind remains focused and not distracted from its truth and only repeated honest exposure to the Self can bring the mind to that state of Self awareness - therefore NEVER hide the Self away Folks - you have NOTHING to be ashamed of ever).....

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Christian Churches value modesty in dress

My Sunday school dresses were way WAY frillier than anything modest I actually wore the rest of the time.

I'm a bit old fashioned and cringe when I see tanks and jeans, but then again, I don't think people should be body shamed at church of all places.

I don't expect the poor to have nice clothes. It's irrational. That they came should be what mattered and they should be made to feel welcome (and the church should save up money to get them some clothes).

When we go to weddings, interviews, and formal occasions, we dress up. If Christians dress up for "men" why wouldn't Christians want to dress in their finest for their lord?

The Lord isn't supposed to be the shallow one.

So, going naked to god would be presenting once flesh to him. Flesh meaning sin. So, they dress up, cover their hair, wear hats, etc as a result.

So if we hide in our clothes, God suddenly doesn't know what's in our hearts?

It was only until someone told them they should cover themselves that they felt shamed.

No one did, though. That was the point. "Who told you you were naked?"

Your mind can only attend to one thing at a time. The power of sexual attraction for many becomes distracting to the max.

Ron Weasley: One person couldn't feel all that. They'd explode!
Hermione Granger: Just because you've got the emotional range of a teaspoon...

They themselves covered their reproductive parts with fig leaves, but it was God who made long garments of animal skin for them, denoting that merely covering their private parts was not enough. Modesty in dress was the standard for all God's people.

If skin is evil, they should be wearing burquas, right?

What Christians are doing is emulating what God did for Adam and his wife in Eden....covering their bodies so as not to conjure up sinful thoughts. Keeping sin under control has been a battle ever since.

Actually, they should go naked. Covering it makes it "forbidden". Fastest way to ensure no one will lust will be to see everyone au naturale.

Once you cover yourself, you're basically doing what satan wants you to do. Cover yourself up to hide from god. It's modesty to mainstream Christianity; but, genesis doesn't portray modesty in covering up. Sexual sin was after the fall not before.

Indeed. I believe Moses had to take his shoes OFF to meet the burning bush, not put some ON.

 

[viole]

Anyone care to explain why dressing a particular way in church is so important?


.

No idea. i suspect god possesses X ray vision, anyway, or something. So, maybe it offends only the ones who do not.

Ciao

- viole

 

[metis]

This question I pose would be interesting as a separate thread, and that is what about a religious service held in a nudist colony?

About 40 years ago on t.v., I listened to a Christian pastor, who was in the buff (top half only), being interviewed as the spiritual head of a nudist colony, and it was his belief that, not only was this spiritually acceptable, it actually was less of a distraction because of two factors: 1.most people who are nude are not that sexy to begin with, and 2.what is fully exposed tends to be less erotic than certain body parts that are fully or partially hid.

What's your thoughts on this? [btw, I've never been to a nudist colony, largely because I really don't like to hear people screaming]

 

[savagewind]

Not what I'm talking about. I'm asking about necessarily dressing in a particular culturally appropriate way. Whether it's a short skirt, day dress, or blue jeans, some churches have dress codes against such attire. So my question is why is this important?


.

I think it should not be a rule. The reason is that if the group really and truly have God's right words to teach them then everyone should have a fair opportunity to hear what God wants people to hear. That means a dress code isn't right as it will definitely discourage many people from ever entering that building for the hearing of God's words. On the other hand, I think proper attire for any serious meeting should be modest. I think modesty in dress should be a personal affair between the person and his God and NOT a definite rule.
Someone in his work clothes who has the opportunity to stop in and hear God's word should feel free to do so. But out of respect for RULES his conscience will not allow it.

 

[Skwim]

Because it is not unreasonable that a church/temple/mosque should insist that those who enter ought to behave and present themselves in a way that is in accordance with their values.

In essence then, you say it's reasonable that a church insist on certain dress codes, but why is the way one dresses so important? So important as to generate codes and guidelines?

What kind of compelling "values" would dictate that a skirt that comes just above the knee is unacceptable while one that breaks at the knee is just fine? What kind of compelling "values" would dictate that slacks made of blue linen are okay while slacks made out of blue denim (jeans) are not? Why must a dress have shoulder straps at least two inches wide? Why are such things important in attending church? (These three dictates were found online.)


.

.

 

[savagewind]

The Lord isn't supposed to be the shallow one.

You have reminded me of something that I think they call God which is "easily offended". Of course, they would not say it like that but it is what they seem to assume about God Almighty.

If a person has "put on Christ" he shouldn't be offended by some skin showing imo.
Someone on the forum says it is a sin against Jehovah to pick weeds from someone else's yard because it is stealing.

So, I hear that God is easily offended but the very book they lean on says, "9 Do not be quick* to take offense,+ for the taking of offense lodges in the bosom of fools.*+ (Ecclesiastes 7:9)

Their god is so very easily offended, according to them.

 

[savagewind]

....I suppose some sin showing works too. lol

 

[Acim]

Not what I'm talking about. I'm asking about necessarily dressing in a particular culturally appropriate way. Whether it's a short skirt, day dress, or blue jeans, some churches have dress codes against such attire. So my question is why is this important?
.

Why are you asking us why it is important to them?

 

[Skwim]

I think it should not be a rule. The reason is that if the group really and truly have God's right words to teach them then everyone should have a fair opportunity to hear what God wants people to hear. That means a dress code isn't right as it will definitely discourage many people from never entering that building for the hearing of God's words. On the other hand, I think proper attire for any serious meeting should be modest. I think modesty in dress should be a personal affair between the person and his God and NOT a definite rule.

So, although you have an idea of what "proper attire" is, you're okay with people deciding for themselves what is proper and what is not, and dress accordingly. And as a reminder, we're not only talking about modesty.

Someone in his work clothes who has the opportunity to stop in and hear God's word should feel free to do so. But out of respect for RULES his conscience will not allow it.

What rules? Rules that say you must not wear X, or you must wear Y? You just got done saying "I think it should not be a rule."


.

 

[savagewind]

So, although you have an idea of what "proper attire" is, you're okay with people deciding for themselves what is proper and what is not, and dress accordingly. And as a reminder, we're not only talking about modesty.

What rules? Rules that say you must not wear X, or you must wear Y? You just got done saying "I think it should not be a rule."


.

Yes, It is a rule. I do not say it is right. The spirit of most meetings is not for learning (then anyone might feel free to enter) but is for obeying (then of course, only like minded people want to go there).