Would An Intelligent Deity Seem Stupid To Us?

[Sunstone]

Would an intelligent deity seem stupid to us?

Some years ago, I came across a study in which the researchers found that when someone is more than about 20 IQ points smarter than us, we tend to rank them as less intelligent than us. The researchers hypothesized that anyone who is much more than 20 IQ points smarter than us comes across as less smart than us because we simply don't understand them.

Keeping that study in mind, let's assume there exists a deity who is infinitely intelligent. Would that deity appear to us infinitely stupid?

If so, would we be under any obligation to worship that deity?

Again, would it make any sense to follow any rules or directions that deity set out for us?

Is there any way we could know that deity was infinitely smart, rather than infinitely stupid?

 

[Halcyon]

Well, if we follow your premise then an infinitely intelligent entity would appear to have 0 intelligence. Its so smart that we cannot recognise its form of intelligence as actually being intelligence of any kind.

It would appear that there was no form of intelligence there at all.

 

[SoliDeoGloria]

Very interesting questions!!!

This definetely reminds me of 1 Cor. 1:27 "but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise..." and I don't get the impression from the cannonized gospel accounts that Jesus was considered by the general public to be the most wisest of people at the time.

Would that deity appear to us infinitely stupid?

Probably due to human pride

If so, would we be under any obligation to worship that deity?

Being as how it was a deity, there would be an objective obligation but whether or not we wanted to worship it or not would be a different question.

Again, would it make any sense to follow any rules or directions that deity set out for us?

That probably depends on what the rules were and the consideration of this deity to explain the reasons for these rules in a finite enough way for us to understand.

Is there any way we could know that deity was infinitely smart, rather than infinitely stupid?

Outside of it's own testimony to the fact and attempts on it's part to display this fact in a finite way for us to understand, it would probably take infinite knowledge on our part to really know.

While it is no secret that I have responded to these questions with a theistic christian presupposition, I did my best to play along from an objective standpoint.

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria

 

[PureX]

People who aren't especially smart tend to resent people who are smarter than they are. They also tend to try to belittle those who are smarter as a way of 'leveling the field', again, to protect their egos. None of us likes to admit to ourselves that we're not all that smart, so we imagine that being stupid is somehow a way of being wiser than those who are smarter than we are.

George Bush is a classic example of this. He is not a smart man, and he never was. He got poor grades in school and if his name was not Bush he never would have gotten into an Ivy League school. He's failed at every business enterprise he's been handed by his wealthy father's cronies, and he would never have been elected president if he weren't named George Bush. Yet when he speaks, he assumes an attitude of perpetual condescension, and keeps repeating phrases like "don't ya see?", as if he, in his quantified stupidity, is able to see and understand what the rest of us cannot. And so he must explain it to us as if we were dim-witted children. He really has convinced himself that he is somehow wiser than everyone else around him because he's not intellectual. And his whole sense of self-worth depends upon maintaining this illusion. This is why he never asks himself if he's made any mistakes, as most intelligent people do. He has long since chosen to refuse to confront the concept of his being stupid and of his making mistakes. That concept just doesn't exist for him. His ego won't allow it.

I personally think this is the motive behind a lot of current social antipathy toward intellectualism. Put crudely, stupid people don't like smart people because smart people make them aware of how stupid they are, just by their being smarter. So the stupid people pretend that being stupid, intellectually, somehow makes them "wise in real life". It's only the stupid people who fall for this ploy - smart people can see it for what it really is - but then it's only the stupid people who need to fall for it. So it persists in spite of it's foolishness.

As the American population becomes more and more stupid, thanks to a failing educational system, the inescapable influence of commercial advertising, and the dark motives of some powerful social manipulators, the more popular this idea that stupidity = wisdom becomes. And of course it's welcomed, promoted, and fostered by those among us wishing to take advantage of society's collective stupidity.

The Church has been one of those institutions that has traditionally taken advantage of collective social ignorance and stupidity, and so has a history of promoting and fostering stupidity as a "virtue". And I think we should be aware of this.

 

[sojourner]

Would an intelligent deity seem stupid to us?

Some years ago, I came across a study in which the researchers found that when someone is more than about 20 IQ points smarter than us, we tend to rank them as less intelligent than us. The researchers hypothesized that anyone who is much more than 20 IQ points smarter than us comes across as less smart than us because we simply don't understand them.

Keeping that study in mind, let's assume there exists a deity who is infinitely intelligent. Would that deity appear to us infinitely stupid?

If so, would we be under any obligation to worship that deity?

Again, would it make any sense to follow any rules or directions that deity set out for us?

Is there any way we could know that deity was infinitely smart, rather than infinitely stupid?

Refer to Noah. Everybody thought he was crazy for following God's directions. Look what happened!

What about Abraham? Who among us would sacrifice his only son, just because God told him to? Shall I go on?

To aspire to know God's ways is the height of hubris. Ref. "The Tower of Babel." Why are we so obsessed with knowledge and proof, when faith is what's called for?

 

[michel]

Would an intelligent deity seem stupid to us?

Some years ago, I came across a study in which the researchers found that when someone is more than about 20 IQ points smarter than us, we tend to rank them as less intelligent than us. The researchers hypothesized that anyone who is much more than 20 IQ points smarter than us comes across as less smart than us because we simply don't understand them.

Keeping that study in mind, let's assume there exists a deity who is infinitely intelligent. Would that deity appear to us infinitely stupid?

If so, would we be under any obligation to worship that deity?

Again, would it make any sense to follow any rules or directions that deity set out for us?

Is there any way we could know that deity was infinitely smart, rather than infinitely stupid?

..........researchers found that when someone is more than about 20 IQ points smarter than us, we tend to rank them as less intelligent than us.......

That's a new one on me. I consider anyone with an IQ higher than mine to be more intelligent. Mind you, I may decide that that same person is lacking in 'common sense' if he/she shows signs of being so (and, to tell the truth, some of the very intelligent people I have known have been somewhat lacking in common sense, simply because their minds are on a much higher level).

Keeping that study in mind, let's assume there exists a deity who is infinitely intelligent. Would that deity appear to us infinitely stupid?

Not to me.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Would an intelligent deity seem stupid to us?

It would be funny to see a naturalist try and debate with an intelligent deity.

Some years ago, I came across a study in which the researchers found that when someone is more than about 20 IQ points smarter than us, we tend to rank them as less intelligent than us. The researchers hypothesized that anyone who is much more than 20 IQ points smarter than us comes across as less smart than us because we simply don't understand them.

Keeping that study in mind, let's assume there exists a deity who is infinitely intelligent. Would that deity appear to us infinitely stupid?

It seems to me that we don't have enough data to come to any kind of conclusion on this topic.

If so, would we be under any obligation to worship that deity?

I'm not sure if the deity has to demonstrate that they're worthy of worship or force us to worship by threatening to turn our puny brains into jelly.

Again, would it make any sense to follow any rules or directions that deity set out for us?

I'll use the same rationale as above.

Is there any way we could know that deity was infinitely smart, rather than infinitely stupid?

The jelly factor is perhaps all that I care about.

 

[d.]

To aspire to know God's ways is the height of hubris.

yet the idea that certain people do is the foundation and unavoidable premise of the majority of the world's religions.

 

[Draka]

That's a new one on me. I consider anyone with an IQ higher than mine to be more intelligent. Mind you, I may decide that that same person is lacking in 'common sense' if he/she shows signs of being so (and, to tell the truth, some of the very intelligent people I have known have been somewhat lacking in common sense, simply because their minds are on a much higher level).



Not to me.

The common sense thing there is pretty accurate in my belief. Now, my IQ is pretty high actually, but I don't go around telling it or bragging about it. Just because it's high doesn't mean that I'm any more or less intelligent, in the long run, than anyone else when you take in experience and common sense into the mix. Some who know they are intelligent sometimes get the thought that they are so intelligent that they automatically are going to make the most logical and informed decisions regardless of actual facts. Therefore they don't use as much common sense, because they don't feel they need it. They are smart enough to just KNOW what to do. My father's been guilty of that many times, and the man's a genius and musical child prodigy of sorts. Doesn't mean he makes the best decisions.

On that note, as for a deity being intelligent, I don't follow that. It all depends on what you consider deity to be. Intelligence is a human trait we covet. Why would that even fall into the realm of deity? Deity trancends intelligence doesn't it?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

On that note, as for a deity being intelligent, I don't follow that. It all depends on what you consider deity to be. Intelligence is a human trait we covet. Why would that even fall into the realm of deity? Deity trancends intelligence doesn't it?

Perhaps not. It seems to me that the question assumes that we are standing before a deity and somehow able to judge her intelligence. We are to hypothetically imagine that the god is measurable and approachable. The question itself is therefore not applicable to many understandings of God.

It seems that we judge God on human terms. May God have mercy when God judges us on divine terms.

 

[Draka]

It seems that we judge God on human terms. May God have mercy when God judges us on divine terms.

Bingo. I just can't attribute "intelligence" to Divine/Source. Makes no sense to me in my concept of it.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Bingo. I just can't attribute "intelligence" to Divine/Source. Makes no sense to me in my concept of it.

If the Being is self-aware, I think that we can use our intelligence as a metaphor. If we can know anything about God at all, I can't see how we can avoid using ourselves as a metaphor to understand whatever we know about God.

 

[Draka]

If the Being is self-aware, I think that we can use our intelligence as a metaphor. If we can know anything about God at all, I can't see how we can avoid using ourselves as a metaphor to understand whatever we know about God.

That's the thing though, isn't it? I veiw Divine to be throughout everyone and everything. It is the essence of us, our souls, energy. It is the accumulation of all and the source of all at the same time. In that definition/understanding it makes it very difficult to equate intelligence with it. It all depends on what you "know" now doesn't it? What you feel you "know" about God may be completely different than what I "know" about Divine and even others "know" about how they veiw deity. Makes it very hard to take one aspect that can be applied to all. Even intelligence. Which is why I can't really answer the OP's questions without completely changing my veiw of deity.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

That's the thing though, isn't it? I veiw Divine to be throughout everyone and everything. It is the essence of us, our souls, energy. It is the accumulation of all and the source of all at the same time. In that definition/understanding it makes it very difficult to equate intelligence with it. It all depends on what you "know" now doesn't it? What you feel you "know" about God may be completely different than what I "know" about Divine and even others "know" about how they veiw deity. Makes it very hard to take one aspect that can be applied to all. Even intelligence. Which is why I can't really answer the OP's questions without completely changing my veiw of deity.

That's why I said "if."

The subjectivity of it all is what makes it so much fun.

 

[Karl R]

Some years ago, I came across a study in which the researchers found that when someone is more than about 20 IQ points smarter than us, we tend to rank them as less intelligent than us.

I've met a few people who have 20+ IQ points on me. I've always been able to determine that they were substantially brighter than me. However, I would not be surprised if my perception was the exception to the rule.

Furthermore, they were not the easiest people to communicate with. I find it much easier to talk to people who are close to my intelligence level.

The researchers hypothesized that anyone who is much more than 20 IQ points smarter than us comes across as less smart than us because we simply don't understand them.

This can be worked around. I grew up around people who were 20-40 IQ points below me. I can "dumb down" what I say. It just requires me to consciously use simple vocabulary.

Keeping that study in mind, let's assume there exists a deity who is infinitely intelligent. Would that deity appear to us infinitely stupid?

That depends on the deity's ability to use short, simple words.

Personally, I think god has "dumbed down" religious and metaphysical concepts so they would be easy enough for humanity to understand. This could be one of the reasons that religious beliefs appear so different. You don't have to "dumb down" the message nearly as much if you can directly tie the message into experiences and concepts the person is familiar with. Therefore, religious messages may have been heavily tied to cultural context.

If so, would we be under any obligation to worship that deity?

I don't think I'm obliged to worship an infinitely intelligent deity or an infinitely stupid deity. There may be consequences for my choices (like having my brain turned to jelly), but that doesn't imply an obligation.

Again, would it make any sense to follow any rules or directions that deity set out for us?

Yes, no, and maybe.

I can give instructions to people who are 40-60 IQ points below me. The instructions are sensible (to me). I can sometimes explain the instructions well enough that they also sound sensible to the other party. In either case, I can generally guarantee that the person can contribute by following my instructions (whether they understand the sense behind them or not).

However, if the person does not understand the reasoning behind the instruction, it's impossible for them to understand the exceptions to the rule. (i.e. If someone understands that "green means go", they might go through an intersection when someone is running a red light, or when an emergency vehicle is crossing their path. By failing to understand the reasoning behind the rule, they fail to understand the exceptions. This can have fatal consequences.)

Is there any way we could know that deity was infinitely smart, rather than infinitely stupid?

I think it's possible ... but only for some people.

Terms like "crazy wisdom" exist for a reason. I think some people can understand god at a much higher level than the rest of us can. Their reasoning seems stupid ... except it works ... better than ours.

Deity trancends intelligence doesn't it?

In some regards. One of the common measures of intelligence is how quickly we learn. By definition, something that's omniscient already knows everything ... and therefore does not need to learn anything.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I've met a few people who have 20+ IQ points on me.

As have I. Once we get into the "immeasurable" IQ - 20+ points hardly matters.

 

[Sunstone]

Bingo. I just can't attribute "intelligence" to Divine/Source. Makes no sense to me in my concept of it.

Maybe deity exists, but is not self aware except through its awareness of our awareness of it? Just a thought yanked from a coffee deprived brain.

 

[Sunstone]

1 Cor. 1:27 "but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise..."

The problem I have with that passage is it ascribes a petty motive to deity: i.e. resentment of those who are smarter than us. Would deity have that resentment? And if deity did resent the wise, and wished therefore to shame them, would not that be rather conclusive proof that deity wasn't all wise itself but actually rather stupid?

 

[Karl R]

1 Cor. 1:27 "but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise..."

The problem I have with that passage is it ascribes a petty motive to deity: i.e. resentment of those who are smarter than us. Would deity have that resentment? And if deity did resent the wise, and wished therefore to shame them, would not that be rather conclusive proof that deity wasn't all wise itself but actually rather stupid?

I see a different (non-petty) motive.

Regardless of how wise we become, we're all still fallible. If a wise person makes a mistake (large or small) that anyone can recognize as foolish, they have just been reminded of their own limits.

A little anti-hubris can go a long way.

 

[sojourner]

I wrote:

To aspire to know God's ways is the height of hubris.

Divine answered:

yet the idea that certain people do is the foundation and unavoidable premise of the majority of the world's religions.

Arguing from the Christian pov, we don't profess to know God. No one can know God. We profess to believe in God. Our foundation is faith, not knowledge. Can't comment on other religions...