Would God approve homosexual "unions"

[Draka]

You obviously don't know the meaning of sin...which makes sense since you've insinuated your disbelief in God which means you don't believe or agree with the biblical concept of sin or right and wrong so in that case why are you responding to a religious post....it's pointless ....your are entitled to your views and way of life just as I'm entitled to mine.

What does non-belief the biblical idea of sin have to do with someone believing in right and wrong?

 

[Aquitaine]

The scriptures teach that homosexual acts are sinful (Romans 1: 26-28), thus it is logical to conclude He wouldn't endorse same-sex marriages/civil unions, etc.

Good job "he" is nothing more than the product of human imagination then.

 

[Tranquil Servant]

I know as much as anybody.

Since "anybody" and everybody knows the meaning, why don't you tell me THE definition of sin (which originates from religion)?

Did you know that Christianity is founded on sin? Right there in the 1st Commandment, Christianity is forbidden to the children of Abraham. Moses would be horrified by what the followers of S/Paul did to Scriptures.

Whhaaat!.....?
You should actually look in the bible for answers if you wanna engage in a biblical debate..
Besides...what does that have to do with the topic at hand?

 

[Tranquil Servant]

What does non-belief the biblical idea of sin have to do with someone believing in right and wrong?

The idea and concept of sin came from religion and that is part of what the topic is about right? What is biblically, scriptually and religiously right and wrong...
REMINDER-

The scriptures teach that homosexual acts are sinful (Romans 1: 26-28), thus it is logical to conclude He wouldn't endorse same-sex marriages/civil unions, etc.

This is a biblical debate forum...isn't it?

 

[Draka]

The idea and concept of sin came from religion and that is part of what the topic is about right? What is biblically, scriptually and religiously right and wrong...
REMINDER-

This is a biblical debate forum...isn't it?

The way you phrased the post I was responding to made it sound as if if one doesn't believe in sin they don't believe in right or wrong in general. Was wondering if that was what you honestly meant or if you were just referring to the biblical ideas of "right and wrong".

 

[McBell]

Homosexuality is a sin...just as sodomy....fornication....rape...prostitution...adultery.....and a number of other sexual acts are considered sins..

Yes they are.
They go against the will/wishes of the Biblical deity.

Of course, that is what sin is, going against the will/wishes of your chosen deity.
For those who do not have a deity, by the very definition of the word sin, they cannot sin.

Now I understand that your beliefs likely claim that everyone who ever lived, ever will live and is currently alive are bound by your chosen deities laws.
My reply to that is simply,when your chosen deity decides to enforce his rules is when I will take them seriously.

 

[Acim]

It'll be nice if a (so-called) Christian can ever show (so-called) sin of homosexuality in Gospel. I'm pretty sure they never will, so have to go with non-Gospel to win brownie points with their non-Christian God.

 

[Tranquil Servant]

The way you phrased the post I was responding to made it sound as if if one doesn't believe in sin they don't believe in right or wrong in general. Was wondering if that was what you honestly meant or if you were just referring to the biblical ideas of "right and wrong".

Yes Sin and biblical ideas of right and wrong (they're basically one in the same).

 

[Tranquil Servant]

Yes they are.
They go against the will/wishes of the Biblical deity.

Correct.

Of course, that is what sin is, going against the will/wishes of your chosen deity.

Yes.

For those who do not have a deity, by the very definition of the word sin, they cannot sin.

those who don't have a diety won't comprehend nor would they be bound to the concept of sin. Rather they're bound to the rules and laws of the land (which are usually inspired by religion).

Now I understand that your beliefs likely claim that everyone who ever lived, ever will live and is currently alive are bound by your chosen deities laws.
My reply to that is simply, when your chosen deity decides to enforce his rules is when I will take them seriously.

My beliefs are my beliefs and I also believe that everyone will be judged and held accountable for that of which they did or didn't know....Also, by enforce....do you mean force his will on mankind? What exactly do you mean when you say "when your chosen deity decides to enforce his rules is when I will take them seriously"...?

 

[ak.yonathan]

That wasn't the question.

And who is Allah? A "moon god".

Allah is an omnipotent being. Are you implying that He is a moon god? I don't think that's true.

 

[McBell]

those who don't have a diety won't comprehend nor would they be bound to the concept of sin.

Funny.
It has been my experience that those not bound by a deities whims are typically the ones with the better understanding...

Rather they're bound to the rules and laws of the land (which are usually inspired by religion).

The difference being that the rules and laws of the land are enforced (or are supposed to be) by the makers of the rules.
Your deity has all manner of rules that are not enforced outside the fear of the followers.

My beliefs are my beliefs and I also believe that everyone will be judged and held accountable for that of which they did or didn't know....

And you are free to that belief.
My belief is that your above belief is merely wishful thinking.

Also, by enforce....do you mean force his will on mankind? What exactly do you mean when you say "when your chosen deity decides to enforce his rules is when I will take them seriously"...?

exactly that.
When your deity steps up and starts enforcing its rules, I will take notice.
Thus far your deity has not enforced its rules.
Many of its followers have tried forcing your deities rules onto the populace, but your deity has been conspicuously absent for the enforcement part.

Hopefully you will not try the "my deity uses its followers to enforce its rules" nonsense, because all that reveals at best is your wrong and at worse it reveals your deities incompetence.

 

[Tranquil Servant]

Funny.
It has been my experience that those not bound by a deities whims are typically the ones with the better understanding...

understanding of what, Sin?
I thought we made it clear what the definition is sin was? Yes they may know the concept of sin (itself) but they won't acknowledge nor fully comprehend the aspects of why a sin is a sin (or the sins themselves) because since they don't have a diety, they don't have to adhere to the beliefs concerning sin of that diety's religion...once again I'm talking about what a diety or religion considers to be a sin and not the concept of sin itself.

The difference being that the rules and laws of the land are enforced (or are supposed to be) by the makers of the rules.
Your deity has all manner of rules that are not enforced outside the fear of the followers.

Well once upon a time my diety's followers really did fear him but to my understanding he wants us to respect him and love him more than we fear him cause when you fear someone or something it doesn't necessarily mean that you respect that person or (it) AND when a person or diety isn't respected then it's easy to betray or (disrespect) that person or diety the first opportunity that arises.....meanwhile the law makers of the land where I'm from rely and thrive off of the fear of not only its people but the people of other nations as well.

And you are free to that belief.
My belief is that your above belief is merely wishful thinking.

And you are free to yours but at least I have something to hope for.. rather than believing this pathetic life and world is all we have.

exactly that.
When your deity steps up and starts enforcing its rules, I will take notice.
Thus far your deity has not enforced its rules.
Many of its followers have tried forcing your deities rules onto the populace, but your deity has been conspicuously absent for the enforcement part.

Hopefully you will not try the "my deity uses its followers to enforce its rules" nonsense, because all that reveals at best is your wrong and at worse it reveals your deities incompetence.

All I'm gonna say is...you (especially) don't want MY GOD to unleash his "enforcement" upon you or the world....trust me, that's not what you want!!

 

[McBell]

understanding of what, Sin?
I thought we made it clear what the definition is sin was? Yes they may know the concept of sin (itself) but they won't acknowledge nor fully comprehend the aspects of why a sin is a sin (or the sins themselves) because since they don't have a diety, they don't have to adhere to the beliefs concerning sin of that diety's religion...once again I'm talking about what a diety or religion considers to be a sin and not the concept of sin itself.

That each follow has their own list of things they think/claim/believe their deity says is a sin is rather irrelevant outside of their beliefs.
So what non-theists do not know every single thing every single person thinks/claims/ believes is a sin.
It isn't as if said deity is enforcing them.

Lol...now this is funny! Cause if the followers of my diety really feared him like you say this world would probably be a better place....

You do understand there is more than one definition of the word fear, right?

meanwhile the law makers of the land where I'm from rely and thrive off of the fear of not only its people but the people of other nations as well.

yes, fear of actual enforcement, not the empty threat of punishment from an imaginary friend.

And you are free to yours but at least I have something to hope for.. rather than believing this pathetic life and world is all we have.

You are not the only one who needs that crutch.
I prefer the cold hard truth over warm fuzzy feelings myself.

All I'm gonna say is...you (especially) don't want MY GOD to unleash his "enforcement" upon you or the world....trust me, that's not what you want!!

an awful lot of bluster.
To bad it is nothing but empty rhetoric

 

[Tranquil Servant]

You do understand there is more than one definition of the word fear, right?

ugh!...I edited too l8

Well once upon a time my diety's followers really did fear him but to my understanding he wants us to respect him and love him more than we fear him cause when you fear someone or something it doesn't necessarily mean that you respect that person or (it) AND when a person or diety isn't respected then it's easy to betray or (disrespect) that person or diety the first opportunity that arises

yes, fear of actual enforcement, not the empty threat of punishment from an imaginary friend.

enforcement=violence? Sounds alittle blood thirsty..are you a vampire??
Also...we won't know until we die right? AND according to my belief there's a time intended for everything that God has planned....

You are not the only one who needs that crutch.
I prefer the cold hard truth over warm fuzzy feelings myself.

Well I hope you're enjoying your cold hard truth in your cold hard life on this cold hard world

an awful lot of bluster.
To bad it is nothing but empty rhetoric

I guess we'll just have to wait and see....you do believe you have a soul..don't you?

 

[McBell]

enforcement=violence? Sounds alittle blood thirsty..are you a vampire??

Interesting how YOU equate "punishment" with "violence"...

Well I hope you're enjoying your cold hard truth in your cold hard life on this cold hard world
I guess we'll just have to wait and see....you do believe you have a soul..don't you?

Define soul in a useful and or meaningful way.

I have no fear or worries when it comes to empty threats.
Especially when it is someones "god" dishing out the actual actions.....

 

[Tranquil Servant]

Interesting how YOU equate "punishment" with "violence"...

Well cause I don't understand what kinda enforcement you're talking about and when I mentioned "the land Where I'm from" and it causing it's people and other nations to fear it...you said...

yes, fear of actual enforcement, not the empty threat of punishment from an imaginary friend.

Not even realizing (or maybe you do) that the law makers and law enforcers where I'm from use weapons and violence to "enforce" their will upon people.

Define soul in a useful and or meaningful way.

You know...like how people use the term mind+body+soul...or life energy...?

 

[Tranquil Servant]

I have no fear or worries when it comes to empty threats.
Especially when it is someones "god" dishing out the actual actions.....

ahh you're a tough guy huh?... Lol....sounds like you need some love

 

[McBell]

ahh you're a tough guy huh?... Lol....sounds like you need some love

I do not consider my self a "tough guy".
I simply find no reason to worry about empty threats.

 

[Tranquil Servant]

Can we get back to the original topic now......?

 

[Neo Deist]

...thus homosexuality is GOD's thought, deny this and so deny GOD...

Not for those that believe in free will (like me). God has nothing to do with homosexual actions, heterosexual actions, or any other actions. They are all free will choices.

Which then leads us back to square one that the homosexual actions of humans are not natural, as they can't procreate. If that means that they are unnatural, then so be it. Does society really have to accept them as part of the "natural order" of human life/evolution? No. Just like I don't have to accept organized religions (I reject them and their man made holy books). Am I unnatural because I don't follow a religion? Some will say yes. The thing is, I don't care what other people think about me.

In summary, if you are gay then so be it. To each their own. Quit worrying about labels or the status quo.