Would You Die for Your Beliefs?

[DeviChaaya]

No but only because the person threatening my life cannot take away what I believe inside. He/she/they can only force outward change - lies - not what is within. Hell, they can only change my outward behaviors so long as I am watched night & day because whenever I was alone I would practice my faith.

The only real way to make me change my beliefs would be mind control.

Also, if my dying for my beliefs would have some positive impact upon the path I follow - perhaps acting as a rallying cry or a wake up call - than shoot away because my life will have had purpose.

 

[chinu]

If someone held a gun to your head and told you to renounce your current beliefs and swear belief in what they told you to believe, otherwise they would kill you, would you do it? Why or why not?

I don't have any beliefs.

What if you were a leader within your belief system and this took place with an audience of millions on television?

I don't want to be the leader of any belief system.

Would it have any meaning to do so? Would it have any value to not do so?

Those who do so, does know so...

Does martyrdom have any value?

Yes!

_/\_
Chinu

 

[Viker]

I would probably fudge it up and say something like, "Sure. Why not? Our beliefs are mostly BS anyways." ( boom! )

 

[Majikthise]

This question is for everyone.

If someone held a gun to your head and told you to renounce your current beliefs and swear belief in what they told you to believe, otherwise they would kill you, would you do it? Why or why not?

What if you were a leader within your belief system and this took place with an audience of millions on television?

Would it have any meaning to do so? Would it have any value to not do so?

Does martyrdom have any value?

I'd swear to anything if someone had a gun to my head.

If I was the leader of an ideology I would probably be a little cukoo anyway, so I couldn't say in that situation.

It would mean only that I am not dumb enough to die for something the person with the gun couldn't control.

Yes , martyrdom effects the beliefs of others and therefore has value. Whether it's good or bad depends.

Captured combatants in Vietnam were forced to denounce America and say all kinds of dumb ****. Anyone who thinks they really believed that junk is foolish.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I would express that belief is soley for those living and sapient. Maybe I will be able to die well if faced with no other alternative and leave life under the eyes of any observers to make their own judgements afterward.

 

[Photonic]

They can have the exterior perception of myself, I care little what they think about me on the outside.

But my mind is my own, they would never have that.

 

[Levite]

This question is for everyone.

If someone held a gun to your head and told you to renounce your current beliefs and swear belief in what they told you to believe, otherwise they would kill you, would you do it? Why or why not?

What if you were a leader within your belief system and this took place with an audience of millions on television?

Would it have any meaning to do so? Would it have any value to not do so?

Does martyrdom have any value?

Generally speaking, Jewish Law teaches us that if someone is threatening your life (directly, not abstractly) and demands you renounce your beliefs, you do what you need to do to survive, escape, and return to the safety of a Jewish community. Anything said or done under mortal duress is considered involuntary, and thus not a transgression of Jewish Law.

In theory, this even should be applicable to a leader, being forced to make such a renunciation in public. However, I might hope that, were I a leader, on television, in such a situation, I might choose martyrdom instead.

I think martyrdom seldom has value, but when it does, its value is high. A major Jewish leader being willing to be a martyr could be deeply inspiring to many young Jews who undervalue their Jewish identity. What a person is willing to die for must surely be of immense value to them, and hopefully, that might make them think, and learn to value their Judaism more deeply.

 

[Photonic]

Generally speaking, Jewish Law teaches us that if someone is threatening your life (directly, not abstractly) and demands you renounce your beliefs, you do what you need to do to survive, escape, and return to the safety of a Jewish community. Anything said or done under mortal duress is considered involuntary, and thus not a transgression of Jewish Law.

In theory, this even should be applicable to a leader, being forced to make such a renunciation in public. However, I might hope that, were I a leader, on television, in such a situation, I might choose martyrdom instead.

I think martyrdom seldom has value, but when it does, its value is high. A major Jewish leader being willing to be a martyr could be deeply inspiring to many young Jews who undervalue their Jewish identity. What a person is willing to die for must surely be of immense value to them, and hopefully, that might make them think, and learn to value their Judaism more deeply.

People die for some pretty stupid stuff, what makes you think dying for a religion is different?

 

[Me Myself]

People die for some pretty stupid stuff, what makes you think dying for a religion is different?

What makes you think that there is only one way to die for a religion, so that there is only a single consideration of wheter it is stupid or not?

There are many ways and reasons for people to become martyrs, and each should be valued as it´s own, ot as a colective and even worst as a colecive of all religious deaths.

It simply doesn´t make much sense IMO

 

[Photonic]

What makes you think that there is only one way to die for a religion, so that there is only a single consideration of wheter it is stupid or not?

There are many ways and reasons for people to become martyrs, and each should be valued as it´s own, ot as a colective and even worst as a colecive of all religious deaths.

It simply doesn´t make much sense IMO

Because history is well documented.

 

[Me Myself]

Because history is well documented.

Either I don´t understand how that adresses the point I made or yu didn´t understand my point.

I am simply saying that one religious death might be meaningless and another one might not be. It would all depend onthe specifics, rather than saying "are all religious deaths stupid?"

 

[Photonic]

Either I don´t understand how that adresses the point I made or yu didn´t understand my point.

I am simply saying that one religious death might be meaningless and another one might not be. It would all depend onthe specifics, rather than saying "are all religious deaths stupid?"

I didn't say that, I was asking him to define how such a death would not fall into the realm of a stupid death.

Not that I personally am defining any death of a religious connotation as "stupid."

 

[javajo]

While I hope I never have to, I believe I would die for my beliefs and I believe God would give me the strength and grace for whatever I may face.

 

[Corkscrew]

This question is for everyone.

If someone held a gun to your head and told you to renounce your current beliefs and swear belief in what they told you to believe, otherwise they would kill you, would you do it? Why or why not?

My beliefs are my beliefs. It would take something more than someone holding a gun to my head to change them. I can swear up and down that I have changed my beliefs, but it won’t alter what I truly believe, it would just make a liar out of me. I guess the real question is “Am I willing to lie to save my life?” My answer to that question is…ummmm… YES!!!

The reason why I would lie to save my life is because it doesn’t matter to me what people think I believe…and I would really miss surfing.

 

[Levite]

People die for some pretty stupid stuff, what makes you think dying for a religion is different?

I happen to believe very much that Judaism is worth preserving, and is worth inspiring Jews to care about. I happen to believe that because God has asked of the Jewish People that they remain true to the covenant, and demonstrate to the world that the covenant between God and Israel is eternal and unbreakable, and that there are no other gods but the One God, it is worth enduring martyrdom to demonstrate how fully Jews ought to embrace those ideals and obligations, and how important my duties to God are to me.

No one is suggesting that every Jew should be a martyr. And in fact, I was quite clear that Jewish Law elucidates that if one is unable to face martyrdom under mortal duress, they may do whatever is necessary to survive, so that they may escape, and return to Jewish community and observance as soon as possible, and we do not hold them to be either transgressors or cowards. But in theory, our ideal is to choose death over doing what God has commanded us not to do. And I would hope to be able to live up to that.

In any case, that is all a matter of Jewish Law, Jewish thought, and Jewish observance, and has nothing to do with non-Jews. But I could well imagine that some non-Jews might find it worthwhile to demonstrate the value of their principles by refusing to abrogate them, even under threat of death.

If you feel otherwise, fine. It's no business of anyone's but yours. You do or say anything that might be necessary to preserve your life.

 

[Photonic]

I happen to believe very much that Judaism is worth preserving, and is worth inspiring Jews to care about. I happen to believe that because God has asked of the Jewish People that they remain true to the covenant, and demonstrate to the world that the covenant between God and Israel is eternal and unbreakable, and that there are no other gods but the One God, it is worth enduring martyrdom to demonstrate how fully Jews ought to embrace those ideals and obligations, and how important my duties to God are to me.

No one is suggesting that every Jew should be a martyr. And in fact, I was quite clear that Jewish Law elucidates that if one is unable to face martyrdom under mortal duress, they may do whatever is necessary to survive, so that they may escape, and return to Jewish community and observance as soon as possible, and we do not hold them to be either transgressors or cowards. But in theory, our ideal is to choose death over doing what God has commanded us not to do. And I would hope to be able to live up to that.

In any case, that is all a matter of Jewish Law, Jewish thought, and Jewish observance, and has nothing to do with non-Jews. But I could well imagine that some non-Jews might find it worthwhile to demonstrate the value of their principles by refusing to abrogate them, even under threat of death.

If you feel otherwise, fine. It's no business of anyone's but yours. You do or say anything that might be necessary to preserve your life.

Actually I'm Jewish by heritage. But shhhh.

I was very much interested in your answer. Thank you.

 

[espo35]

If it was a deranged freak with the gun to my head....not sure what I would do.

The question reminds me of the Jehovah Witnesses who were thrown into the Nazi's concentration camps. If they would sign a statement renouncing their faith, they would be freed. If not....death awaited them. Very few signed......

In a case such as this, I would die for my faith.

I would not trade everlasting life later for a few more decades on this craphole of an Earth.

 

[Photonic]

I would not trade everlasting life later for a few more decades on this craphole of an Earth.

Is that really what the religious think?

No wonder they are so against anything that could make it better.

Someone please tell me this isn't the prevalent attitude.

 

[Revoltingest]

It reminds me of a quote from the movie Patton....
"Now I want you to remember that no bas**** ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb ***tard die for his country. "
To die for my beliefs would be the last thing I'd want to do.

 

[espo35]

No wonder they are so against anything that could make it better.

Like what?