Would you force someone to do something to save someone else?

[JJ50]

Because you don't support gender equality, but you want to believe that you do.
Tom

So you say.

 

[columbus]

So you say.

You posted it.
Tom

 

[columbus]

If you answered no to this question, here is another question: are you pro-life? If it's yes to this question, how do you reconcile your irrationality?

Side note: this is about abortion Pro-life vs pro-choice *edited

The answer to the second question is pretty much a Yes. I am strongly Pro-Life, which is different from just anti-feticide. I also oppose preemptive war, capital punishment and environmental degradation.
As a start.
The first question is a lot more nuanced. My answer is also. Mostly no, but not always.

If someone makes a choice that results in someone else's dire straits then I do have a different moral opinion than if the people are totally uninvolved with each other.

For instance,
If Joe develops kidney failure, under normal circumstances, I don't expect anyone in particular to agree to donate a kidney to save his life.
However, if Joe develops kidney failure because Bob poisoned him, and Bob is the only feasible kidney donor, I'd strap Bob to a guerny myself and remove his kidney with an E-xato knife if I had to, in order to save Joe's life. Because Bob chose the situation that Joe is now suffering in. And Bob owes Joe that kidney.

That's what Choice really means. If a competent adult makes a choice then they are responsible for the outcome.
Choose baby making sex and you're responsible for the baby made. Male or female, it doesn't matter. You made a Choice that included another human being that had no Choice and now you have to pony up.
Because you made The Choice.
Tom

 

[Trailblazer]

Eh, well, in response to your reply, I can just say that people who refuse to give abortions aren’t mature enough to understand the rights of females. It doesn’t take Einstein to figure that out. Pro life activists can’t deal with gender equality and the natural right to do what we want to do with our own body. Simple, solved. They need to grow up.

Eh, well, in response to your reply, I can just say that people who give abortions aren’t mature enough to understand the rights of the unborn to have a life. It doesn’t take Einstein to figure that out.

 

[Trailblazer]

Until the foetus is viable, the welfare of the mother must always come first.

Why, if the health of the mother is not at stake, should what the mother wants come before another human life?
Think about it.

This has nothing to do with when the fetus is viable outside the womb. Life begins at the moment of conception.

A Scientific View of When Life Begins

The conclusion that human life begins at sperm-egg fusion is uncontested, objective, based on the universally accepted scientific method of distinguishing different cell types from each other and on ample scientific evidence (thousands of independent, peer-reviewed publications). Moreover, it is entirely independent of any specific ethical, moral, political, or religious view of human life or of human embryos. Indeed, this definition does not directly address the central ethical question surrounding the embryo: What value ought society place on human life at the earliest stages of development? A neutral examination of the evidence merely establishes the onset of a new human life at a scientifically well-defined “moment of conception,” a conclusion that unequivocally indicates that human embryos from the one-cell stage forward are indeed living individuals of the human species; i.e., human beings.

 

[Trailblazer]

What about the guy that made the baby? What should we do with him? And orphanages around the world are full of unwanted children just waiting for a loving family. You're argument is specious at best.

The guy that had sex with the woman is not responsible. It is the responsibility of the woman to ensure she does not get pregnant because she is the one who is responsible if she does. Mistakes and accidents do happen but if she did not have sex there could be no pregnancy. She is ultimately responsible, unless the guy lied and said he had a vasectomy.

A newborn baby does not go to an orphanage, there are women on waiting lists waiting to adopt that baby.
Nice try though.

 

[BSM1]

The guy that had sex with the woman is not responsible. It is the responsibility of the woman to ensure she does not get pregnant because she is the one who is responsible if she does. Mistakes and accidents do happen but if she did not have sex there could be no pregnancy. She is ultimately responsible, unless the guy lied and said he had a vasectomy.

A newborn baby does not go to an orphanage, there are women on waiting lists waiting to adopt that baby.
Nice try though.

Soooo......the guy is not at all responsible? Hmmm.... can't you see how misogynistic this sounds? And I was referring to children now in orphanages, not newborns.

 

[columbus]

The guy that had sex with the woman is not responsible. It is the responsibility of the woman to ensure she does not get pregnant because she is the one who is responsible if she does.

I could hardly disagree more.
Making a baby requires 2 people and they're both responsible for the outcome of their choice.
The female half of the procreative pair has to do the gestating. So I have no problem requiring the male half to do the heavy lifting in terms of ongoing child support.
Tom

 

[Kilk1]

If you answered no to this question, here is another question: are you pro-life? If it's yes to this question, how do you reconcile your irrationality?

Side note: this is about abortion Pro-life vs pro-choice *edited

Would I force someone not to kill someone else? Yes, assuming the one potentially killed isn't guilty of a capital offense. I don't see how that contradicts me being pro-life.

 

[Trailblazer]

Soooo......the guy is not at all responsible? Hmmm.... can't you see how misogynistic this sounds? And I was referring to children now in orphanages, not newborns.

No, the guy is not responsible for using birth control, unless that is the understanding between him and the woman.
I was referring to newborns because that is the only thing that is relevant to the subject, since as soon as that baby is delivered it has many women who want it, so it will not end up in an orphanage.

 

[Trailblazer]

I could hardly disagree more.
Making a baby requires 2 people and they're both responsible for the outcome of their choice.
The female half of the procreative pair has to do the gestating. So I have no problem requiring the male half to do the heavy lifting in terms of ongoing child support.
Tom

I was only referring to NOT getting pregnant, NOT what happens if she does become pregnant. After a child is born, BOTH the man and the woman are equally responsible.

 

[charlie sc]

Eh, well, in response to your reply, I can just say that people who give abortions aren’t mature enough to understand the rights of the unborn to have a life. It doesn’t take Einstein to figure that out.

Pray tell, what are the rights of the fetus and do any of them supersede the right of the pregnant woman to control her own body?

 

[charlie sc]

Would I force someone not to kill someone else? Yes, assuming the one potentially killed isn't guilty of a capital offense. I don't see how that contradicts me being pro-life.

Hey Kilk1, ok, you're yes in specifics for the question. So let's be specific.

Would you force a woman to stay pregnant for 9+- months in order to save the fetus?

 

[Trailblazer]

Pray tell, what are the rights of the fetus and do any of them supersede the right of the pregnant woman to control her own body?

Unfortunately, that fetus does not get the rights it deserves, because it has no say in the matter.
In a just government, the unborn child would have as many rights as the mother.
Maybe that mother should have controlled her sex drive.

 

[charlie sc]

Unfortunately, that fetus does not get the rights it deserves, because it has no say in the matter.
In a just government, the unborn child would have as many rights as the mother.
Maybe that mother should have controlled her sex drive.

You didn't answer my question.

 

[Trailblazer]

Would you force a woman to stay pregnant for 9+- months in order to save the fetus?

The way you talk, you act as if the fetus is not even human.... but it is, and everyone knows that.
Yet you think that convicted felons deserve to be treated humanely rather than being punished for their offenses.
Do you even understand the contradiction?

Yes, unless her health is at stake, a woman should carry the child to term and give it away to someone who really wants it.

 

[Trailblazer]

You didn't answer my question.

"Pray tell, what are the rights of the fetus and do any of them supersede the right of the pregnant woman to control her own body?"

Here is the answer: The rights of the fetus supersede the right of the pregnant woman to control her own body.
Imo.

Edited to add: If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

 

[charlie sc]

Here is the answer: The rights of the fetus supersede the right of the pregnant woman to control her own body.
Imo.

Thanks. Good to know your opinion on the subject.

 

[columbus]

The way you talk, you act as if the fetus is not even human.... but it is, and everyone knows that.

How many people would get an abortion if they thought that they were gestating a kitten or a new purse?
People get elective abortions because they know perfectly well that they're gestating a human being.
Tom

 

[Kilk1]

Hey Kilk1, ok, you're yes in specifics for the question. So let's be specific.

Would you force a woman to stay pregnant for 9+- months in order to save the fetus?

Although that wasn't the question, yes, assuming the only alternative was to kill the child. Pro-lifers like myself believe the fetus is a living human, so induced abortion is morally equivalent to murder. Having to be pregnant for 9+ months isn't worse than being killed, so if you get yourself pregnant, killing the person you created isn't right.

If two people are attached together and one considers such an inconvenience, I don't see how killing one of them is okay.