It sounds like your policy is deficient. ANYONE who has reason to suspect abuse should have to report it immediately, and there should be penalties for people who fail to do so while acting in a official capacity in your organization.
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Would you marry a gay couple...
- Thread starter Neo Deist
- Start date
McBell
Admiral Obvious
I Currently have 31 ordinations.
And I can assure you that not one of the organizations that have ordained me owns me or my actions.
Nice try though.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
I don't think you quite "get it".
Ordain: to officially establish or order (something)
I am at a loss to understand how anyone can doubt the writings of the Apostle Paul. This suggests that we cannot trust any of the scriptures that God has preserved down through the centuries. It assumes that they are the work of men and not the product of God's holy spirit. (2 Tim 3:16-17)
If I can't trust Paul's writings then I can't trust any of them. What human is capable of making a judgment call like that? Talk about playing God!
No one is playing God here. What we are talking about is the difference between opinion and scholarly knowledge. There is a great deal of controversy over who did write those books. We cannot know with any degree of certainty and certainly whether or not Paul knew Christ has always been argued. One of the things that stands out the most is that Paul's writings are so different from what Christ taught. Christ never taught that women could not speak in church, and in fact, was very supportive of women in general. Christ never said anything about homosexuality either. He made one remark about men and women being married. Nothing more. So you see some of the things that differentiate the writings of the Gospels V what Pauline dogma has to say.
It seems to me that the one thing people forget when arguing about the things that Jesus 'omitted' from his teachings (that Paul included) was that both were Jewish and raised with the Torah. The law of God included God's very specific laws on homosexuality.
Leviticus 18:22:
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination."
Jesus clearly set the standard for marriage....a man and a woman. (Matt 19:4-6) God's law would not permit otherwise. It even forbade the wearing of the other gender's clothing.
Deuteronomy 22:5:
“A woman must not put on men’s clothing, and a man must not wear women’s clothing. Anyone who does this is detestable in the sight of the Lord your God".
The apostle Peter also commented on the place of women.
1 Peter 3:1-6:
"In the same way, you wives must accept the authority of your husbands. Then, even if some refuse to obey the Good News, your godly lives will speak to them without any words. They will be won over by observing your pure and reverent lives.
Don’t be concerned about the outward beauty of fancy hairstyles, expensive jewelry, or beautiful clothes. You should clothe yourselves instead with the beauty that comes from within, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is so precious to God. This is how the holy women of old made themselves beautiful. They put their trust in God and accepted the authority of their husbands. For instance, Sarah obeyed her husband, Abraham, and called him her master. You are her daughters when you do what is right without fear of what your husbands might do."
In the Jewish synagogue, women did not teach or exercise authority over men; neither did they do so in the Christian assembly. The headship arrangement allowed the sexes to recognize their God-given role in the family arrangement and in worship. (1 Cor 11:3) Paul did not change that and neither did Jesus.
According to the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses the parents are the ones who are allowed to report abuse. Why not the elders? It is because the elders are all bold men who lie and the regular JWs are meek and dreadful of any evil consequence. They won't report it for fear they will be ostracized.
And? So did C.T.Russell.
I really keep expecting more from you!
Because you are god, you know this? I am not god and neither are your leaders. Oh, I mean organizers. LOL
...Oh has the rule chnaged? No man is perfect. That is how YOU explain the goofups of the governing body.
We? Do you mean Earthlings? All of them?
Do I think I am special? LOL. I love you!Yes, the borg new DNA. I have warned people in high places about you but alas the future is in for some trouble. Special trouble!
Always? Or was it about the circumcision? Do you have two more examples?
How do you know these things do not apply to YOU? 2 Timothy 3:13 1 John 5:19 There are more but I am meeting someone soon.
It is artificial I might read the rest later. I think you are a saboteur and are NOT for the JWs. I am entitled to my opinion. You keep telling me that.
I think the truth is there is little involvement in worldly affairs. I believe there is convincing evidence that the JWs promoted the ida to the Nazis that God is going to destroy the Jews. Am I wrong? Also, there was a union between the JWs and the U.N. for a time.
But, who really is your brother? Only the people who agree to image the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Oops! Matthew 23:12 1 Peter 5:6
And it is God's will to think like the JWs, but if they should change their mind about anything you better be up to date with the Watchtower or watch out!
Well, it is so obvious that the flood of we shall think as we will has occurred already. ....
Except that the Bible does not say that Noah preached to the people of his day. The building of the ark and the crazed collecting of animals might be the preaching he did. Think! How fair would it have been for him to be commissioned to preach to "all the people" AND fell trees, AND build, AND keep his family satisfied, AND collect all the food and water, AND collect the animals. I know how much I can do in a day (not much) but even Superman copuld not accomplish everything you say Noah acocmplised along with inviting EVERYONE into the ark with him.
This is prophesied. Do you agree with me, at least, that what Jehovah has said MUST COME TRUE?
You are drawing a conclusion that isn't there. I think you call that, "twisting scripture". Nevermind, you won't understand.
I think this has been accomplished when he endured to his end.
This has been happening since Abel. Maybe the governing body will catch up eventually.
No doubt! It is prophesied.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Yet I have been accepted by the ministry of those who have ordained me...
Is it not your claim that said ministries now own me in that by my marrying a same sex couple I am at the very least implying that all 31 ministries agree/accept/condone/etc. same sex marriage?
If not, I apologize.
However, that sure is what it sounds like you are saying.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
So, we are to realize that only Jews have to do Jewish stuff if Jesus didn't mention it, unless it's about gays?
HeironymusJones
New Member
If I can't trust Paul's writings then I can't trust any of them. What human is capable of making a judgment call like that? Talk about playing God!
And that is the nature of faith. Nothing of the Bible, not one word of it, can be taken at face value, i. e., literally as there is no evidence to support any of the contents therein. But to the truly faithful that should not be an issue as the nature of faith precludes empirical evidence. In fact, faith and evidence cannot co-exist any more than, say, matter and anti-matter, f'rinstance
As far as "playing God" as it were, people have been playing the game of god-hood since humankind first imagined the concept and this is certainly true regarding the unknown authors of the Bible. Nearly all of whom as well as their writings, it should be noted, come to us anonymously; pseudipigraphically; apocryphally.
So, yes, it is a simple, undeniable truth that not one word of the Bible is to be taken at face value. It is, to be blunt, highly dangerous to not only one's self but to society in general to do so. Instead, trust in your heart. If God does indeed exist--and I, for one, am certainly in no position to deny that He may--then you will find Him there and not among the mere scribblings of mortals who couldn't possibly fathom the mind of God, much less record accurately, honestly, His words. In short, anything, no matter how pure, how uncorrupted, which is sieved through the mind of man invariably flows as effluvia.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
Uhhh I have no idea what you are saying.
Peter Stone
Member
No Gay people chase there desires not what marriage is for. Marriage is for one man, one women to make a family and stay together for life for the family since the united states tried to take the power of blacks marrying whites in the early 1900s during the Jim crow law days by issuing Marriage certificates at the state level and have made this marriage for desire. It was only held by the Churches it was invented by the church for this purpose as stated at the beginning One man put his rib into one women and be fruitful was the first marriage. Not stuck his bone in what ever he desired. That is chasing the beast like a dog growls over his food for its own desire so is treating your body as a sexual temple out of control it is used to reproduce not for pleasure. If desire control is a problem then temperance is weak and needs to be strengthened.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Marriage is a contract. What you're talking about "Adam and Eve" is different. The union you're talking about is not marriage; because, two people are not married with a marriage contract no matter what church or Church they are in.
That said, anyone (finally) can be given blessing of commitment to each other under their faith and under a law marriage by contract as well. The Bible doesn't talk about a marriage contract. It talks about the union between man and woman.
A lot of us gay people want our religious affiliations to acknowledge the commitment we have with our friend. It isn't a marriage until we sign a marriage contract no matter what church or Church we are in. The context of marriage is not a Christian word. Christianity doesn't hold an monopoly on someone else's life long and family commitment with another. They only hold their context and meaning of the word between Catholics (and other appropriate churches). No one else.
Subhankar Zac
Hare Krishna,Hare Krishna,
Either Jesus lovers allow Hindus to shave their head, shower them in cow urine and make them ride the city on a donkey till evening for making abominable gross sin of consuming beef
Either they allow themselves to be lashed 10-50 times in public for consuming pork by the Taliban.
Or
These can put the bible away when dealing with a civil rights issue.
Can't gave it both ways.
Peter Stone
Member
Everything I just told you doesn't fit what you feel is correct. You are incorrigible if all you picked up was inventing of... and the start of.... and contracts... from what I said then please listen again. Cause this is with true love.. A man and a women can create a life a family and stay together for good.. By promoting a desire of being gay says someone will have to donate innocents to make a gay family a family. So not only does this effect the couple in this relationship. It also promotes others to chase desires it creates a huge gap in animal type behavior and human loving behavior. You see love is not for desire it is the absorption of pain suffering becoming lonely from others how can you achieve this with pleasure and desire. I have watched my relatives and friends commit suicide and die from disease cause they chased there desires and died slowly blaming everything but the true cause DESIRE. Sex is a desire. Desire is the mark of the beast leads to death and destruction if not with you then others around you if not others around you then others after you please trust me. I tell the truth..
Subhankar Zac
Hare Krishna,Hare Krishna,
So, does your research and personal experience while being gay, say anything about the 50% divorce rate, domestic abuse, alcoholic parents raising three kids... All in a heterosexual marriage?
What about heterosexual rapes within n outside of marriage?
Also there's Adam and eve in bhagavad gita, just so you know and also someone needs to pick a team already.
The continuous oscillations from day one is annoying and confusing.
Adam and eve bought sin and death into this world, is the Christian notion.
Later all people must make their lives like them?
First not to sin, then to sin?
One of millions of things that never made sense to a sane person from your book.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Being gay (trying to get your point) is not a desire no more than being straight. ? Whatever you (in general/people) apply to straight people it is the same with gay people. We are all human. Gay people are not different nor do they have only desires that are somehow the mark of the beast. That sounds, um, off.
You cannot promote the desire to be gay nor can I promote you to have the desire to be straight. That doesn't make sense. Biologically, psychologically, emotionally, and spiritually; it does not make sense.
Same as straight people who cannot have a child. Though, I was told that straight people who can't have a child shouldn't get married (according to the Church) given it's for biological families, it seems.
Being gay does not promote desires. Where do you get that from? Do you actually talk to gay people who do not have issues with their sexuality, commit suicide, and have real and spiritually committed relationships with their friend? Are they human or are they compared to animals because they are not like straights? If you do, do you listen to them or are your beliefs letting you just hear them but not taking their side into account as being right even though you disagree?
I left the Church for more important reasons; but this one was like the cherry to the cake. The CCC describes homosexuals as disturbed. It says that our desires are unnatural (as if we all are defined by desires) and we are supposed to be stuck in Chasity. Coming from a proud catholic, I get bothered by this. One because it defines the whole homosexual population as disturbed and hooked on desires and lust; two, it defines our lust as who we are as spiritual human beings (a lot of Catholics are gay [not being or acting gay]); and, three, they are defining our lifestyle and who we should be with based on their interpretation of our [Christians] feelings and commitment with Christ.
That is so wrong.
You cannot promote the desire to be gay nor can I promote you to have the desire to be straight. That doesn't make sense. Biologically, psychologically, emotionally, and spiritually; it does not make sense.
Same as straight people who cannot have a child. Though, I was told that straight people who can't have a child shouldn't get married (according to the Church) given it's for biological families, it seems.
Being gay does not promote desires. Where do you get that from? Do you actually talk to gay people who do not have issues with their sexuality, commit suicide, and have real and spiritually committed relationships with their friend? Are they human or are they compared to animals because they are not like straights? If you do, do you listen to them or are your beliefs letting you just hear them but not taking their side into account as being right even though you disagree?
I left the Church for more important reasons; but this one was like the cherry to the cake. The CCC describes homosexuals as disturbed. It says that our desires are unnatural (as if we all are defined by desires) and we are supposed to be stuck in Chasity. Coming from a proud catholic, I get bothered by this. One because it defines the whole homosexual population as disturbed and hooked on desires and lust; two, it defines our lust as who we are as spiritual human beings (a lot of Catholics are gay [not being or acting gay]); and, three, they are defining our lifestyle and who we should be with based on their interpretation of our [Christians] feelings and commitment with Christ.That is so wrong.
Peter Stone
Member
Being gay (trying to get your point) is not a desire no more than being straight.?Whatever you (in general/people) apply to straight people it is the same with gay people. We are all human. Gay people are not different nor do they have only desires that are somehow the mark of the beast. That sounds, um, off.
You cannot promote the desire to be gay nor can I promote you to have the desire to be straight. That doesn't make sense. Biologically, psychologically, emotionally, and spiritually; it does not make sense.
Same as straight people who cannot have a child. Though, I was told that straight people who can't have a child shouldn't get married (according to the Church) given it's for biological families, it seems.
Being gay does not promote desires. Where do you get that from? Do you actually talk to gay people who do not have issues with their sexuality, commit suicide, and have real and spiritually committed relationships with their friend? Are they human or are they compared to animals because they are not like straights? If you do, do you listen to them or are your beliefs letting you just hear them but not taking their side into account as being right even though you disagree?
That is so wrong.
We are not talking about straight people. We are talking about gay people. In marriage we are not to have sex before marriage so how is one to know if another can not have babies before marriage. Yes we all have desires but we are talking about your desires not mine. If you want to discuss my desires that is for another day. You left the Church cause it will not allow our sins to corrupt the church with our own desires and that is a way of rebellion from you. You are always welcome in any church gay or straight just don't expect it to accept desires as sound doctrine cause it is the complete opposite. Why do you think they make the devil with legs of an animal cause desires are animal instinct I talk this way to everyone believe me your not special cause your gay.
Peter Stone
Member
It is also the mark of the beast to accuse an say things that are a lie I tell you the truth about my family opening up in truth not for you to attack me