Yahweh is immoral

[ppp]

It's more than that.
I explained how bank notes started.
Credit and electronic money exceeds the use of cash in many places in the west today.
It is no different. It is a medium of exchange.

None of that is "more than that". That's just other details.

 

[joelr]

Who made you "prophet"?

Uh, history? If you read history it's clear the Japanese did not want to surrender and they were taught that Americans were barbarians and would rape and torture them. When we took Tarawa there were natives jumping off cliffs with their children to avoid capture. The Japanese military leaders also did not want surrender even after the atomic bombs were dropped. Over 1 thousand soldiers formed a revolt and stormed the palace when the Emperor surrendered.
The military party would have used the available food to continue rebuilding the military strength. Americans had been fighting war for almost 8 years and wanted to be done. The public was putting massive pressure on the administration to end the war by whatever means. Almost everyone back home had a son, husband, father or someone very close fighting and many had already lost family. Their only thought was to end the war.

 

[joelr]

Who did the Canaanites worship?

Their main deities were El and Asherah. The early Israelites took Ashera as Yahwehs consort until the 2nd Temple Period. The Canaanites had many other lower divinities.

El may have been worshipped by early Israel and conflated into Yahweh. There are different theories based on the evidence.

-
Whereas the Israelites originated as Bronze Age Canaanites, the origin of Yahweh is indeterminate (see Yahweh §Bronze Age origins). Following the introduction of Yahweh (localized to the Iron Age kingdoms of Israel (Samaria) and Judah), a shift in theophoric naming occurred in which the original and most ancient biblical names paying tribute to El (Isra-el, Dani-el, Samu-el, Micha-el etc.) began to be displaced by names paying tribute to Yahweh.

Mark S. Smith sees the conflation of El and Yahweh as part of the process which he describes as "convergence" in the period of the Judges and the early monarchy. Convergence saw the coalescence of the qualities of other deities, and even the deities themselves, into Yahweh. (Mark S. Smith, 2nd edition of The Early History of Israel, pp. 6-13) Thus El became identified as a name of Yahweh, while Asherah ceased to be a distinct goddess. And the attributes of El, Asherah and Baal (notably, for Baal, his identification as a storm-god) were assimilated into Yahweh.

An early version of Deuteronomy seems to place El as the head of the pantheon where Yahweh was given Israel. Later versions changed this. Some sources say Yahweh was Canaan first but I don't think this is supported by solid evidence

"Although the biblical narratives depict Yahweh as the sole creator god, lord of the universe, and god of the Israelites especially, initially he seems to have been Canaanite in origin and subordinate to the supreme god El. Canaanite inscriptions mention a lesser god Yahweh and even the biblical Book of Deuteronomy stipulates that “the Most High, El, gave to the nations their inheritance” and that “Yahweh's portion is his people, Jacob and his allotted heritage” (32:8-9). A passage like this reflects the early beliefs of the Canaanites and Israelites in polytheism or, more accurately, henotheism (the belief in many gods with a focus on a single supreme deity). The claim that Israel always only acknowledged one god is a later belief cast back on the early days of Israel's development in Canaan."
Yahweh



William Dever seems to think so:


"Canaanite religion syncretized elements from neighboring cultures, largely from Mesopotamian religious traditions.[117] Using Canaanite religion as a base was natural due to the fact that the Canaanite culture inhabited the same region prior to the emergence of Israelite culture.[118] Israelite religion was no exception, as during the transitional period, Yahweh and El were syncretized in the Israelite pantheon.[118] El already occupied a reasonably important place in the Israelite religion, after all, even the name "Israel" is based on the name El, rather than Yahweh.[119][120][121] It was this initial harmonization of Israelite and Canaanite religious thought that lead to Yahweh gradually absorbing several characteristics from Canaanite deities, in turn strengthening his own position as an all-powerful "One." Even still, monotheism in the region of ancient Israel and Judah did not take hold overnight, and during the intermediate stages most people are believed to have remained henotheistic.[117]

1. Meek, Theophile James (1942). "Monotheism and the Religion of Israel". Journal of Biblical Literature. 61 (1): 21–43. doi:10.2307/3262264. JSTOR 3262264.
2. ^ Jump up to:a b Dever, William (1987). "Archaeological Sources for the History of Palestine: The Middle Bronze Age: The Zenith of the Urban Canaanite Era". The Biblical Archaeologist. 50 (3): 149–

 

[Sheldon]

What nonsense.

Another typically jejune and trite response, and the real irony of course is that you could have easily disavowed yourself of your ignorance here, with a simple Google search, and some cursory reading.

I doubt very much whether billionaires consider their money has no value. I'm sure they spend it copiously.

Indeed, and since I never remotely claimed otherwise, then one assumes you have a reason for creating this latest in your long long line of straw man fallacies?

Try spending money among people who do not accept it has any value, and you will find out how abstract a concept it is, but I suspect as with quite a few topics, you have little interest in the truth if it doesn't reinforce your prejudiced worldview.

It seems to me that you just want to divert the subject matter, mumbling on about money being worthless etc.

I never claimed it was worthless, and I was answering a direct question that you asked.

Well? What is the point?

Dear oh dear, you just keep stepping on your own tail, who knows why?

 

[Sheldon]

It's more than that.
I explained how bank notes started.
Credit and electronic money exceeds the use of cash in many places in the west today.
It is no different. It is a medium of exchange.

If certain people want to say that money is abstract, then substitute the word "wealth". It is just that these "certain people" are being pedantic as they dislike the truth of what I am saying.

I am only saying what all of the prophets in the Bible and Qur'an have always taught. It is not my own original material.
..and many people have always denied it.
Mankind is violent in his love of wealth .. it is not difficult to understand.
Being very rich, or very poor encourages corruption.
G-d shows how we can prevent this in the guidance for sincere believers.

Civilisations rise and fall, as does people's faith and subsequent righteousness.

And what does that disjointed and irrelevant rant, have to do with money being abstract rather than real, or your denial of that fact? Notes and coins are real, money is not since it's value is abstract. It's hilarious to see you keep trying to deny this of course, whilst ignoring all the evidence.

If you were in the rain forest among people who had no concept of money, would a bank note retain its value? No, it would not, now why is that I wonder if its value is real rather than abstract, it wouldn't be because those people who had never encountered money would have no idea of its perceived worth, since its value is an abstract concept?

Bizarrely this fact has set you off, I cant fathom why it has triggered you, I suspect you were initially derisory and now have gone too far to back down, as you don't want to lose face by admitting you were in fact wrong. That is far sadder than being wrong in the first place.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Notes and coins are real, money is not..

Tut..

 

[Sheldon]

Tut..

Bah...

 

[Kenny]

Regarding this subject you are demonstrable incorrect. I demonstrated some sources saying that the child sacrifice claim regarding the Canaannites is not valid. The historicity and archaeology provides no evidence that they used child sacrifice as a religious practice.

Their main deities were El and Asherah. The early Israelites took Ashera as Yahwehs consort until the 2nd Temple Period. The Canaanites had many other lower divinities.

List of Canaanite deities

Canaanites gods.

• Anat, Virgin goddess of War and Strife, mate and sister of Ba'al Hadad
• Asherah walker of the sea, Mother Goddess, wife of El (also known as Elat)
• Astarte, possibly androgynous divinity associated with Venus
• Baalat or Baalit, the wife or female counterpart of Baal (also Belili)
• Ba'al Hadad, storm God, superseded El as head of the Pantheon
• Baal-Hammon, god of fertility and renewer of all energies in the Phoenician colonies of the Western Mediterranean
• Dagon, god of crop fertility, father of Hadad (usually).
• El Elyon (i.e. God most high) and El
• Eshmun or Baalat Asclepius, god of healing (or goddess)
• Kotharat
• Kathirat, goddesses of marriage and pregnancy
• Kothar, Hasis, the skilled, god of craftsmanship
• Lotan, serpent ally of evil,Yam

El depicted with two lions representing the planet Venus on the back of the handle of the Gebel el-Arak Knifes




Asherah worship involved prostitution. She was also know as a consort of Baal.
Baal/Moloch worship included child sacrifices.

"SOME" sources doesn't match with common understanding of "MOST" sources.

 

[metis]

List of Canaanite deities

Canaanites gods.

• Anat, Virgin goddess of War and Strife, mate and sister of Ba'al Hadad
• Asherah walker of the sea, Mother Goddess, wife of El (also known as Elat)
• Astarte, possibly androgynous divinity associated with Venus
• Baalat or Baalit, the wife or female counterpart of Baal (also Belili)
• Ba'al Hadad, storm God, superseded El as head of the Pantheon
• Baal-Hammon, god of fertility and renewer of all energies in the Phoenician colonies of the Western Mediterranean
• Dagon, god of crop fertility, father of Hadad (usually).
• El Elyon (i.e. God most high) and El
• Eshmun or Baalat Asclepius, god of healing (or goddess)
• Kotharat
• Kathirat, goddesses of marriage and pregnancy
• Kothar, Hasis, the skilled, god of craftsmanship
• Lotan, serpent ally of evil,Yam

El depicted with two lions representing the planet Venus on the back of the handle of the Gebel el-Arak Knifes




Asherah worship involved prostitution. She was also know as a consort of Baal.
Baal/Moloch worship included child sacrifices.

"SOME" sources doesn't match with common understanding of "MOST" sources.

But this depends on how one defines "Canaanites, which is quite conjectural. I'm not disagreeing with you but just saying that archaeologists have some disagreements along this line.

 

[Kenny]

But this depends on how one defines "Canaanites, which is quite conjectural. I'm not disagreeing with you but just saying that archaeologists have some disagreements along this line.

Yes... archaeology is still in flux - do you know anyone who is in that field of expertise?

I think that the basics of Baal/Molech and Asherah isn't an issue for MOST archaeologist. Am I wrong?

 

[ppp]

Yes... archaeology is still in flux - do you know anyone who is in that field of expertise?

I think that the basics of Baal/Molech and Asherah isn't an issue for MOST archaeologist. Am I wrong?

Does this conversation pertain to the op? Or is it a side conversation. Not knocking side conversations. Just wondering.

 

[Kenny]

Does this conversation pertain to the op? Or is it a side conversation. Not knocking side conversations. Just wondering.

this is a side conversation with Metis - has some application to a continuing conversation as to "why" something was done by YHWH

 

[ppp]

this is a side conversation with Metis - has some application to a continuing conversation as to "why" something was done by YHWH

Not why Yahweh would send the Hindu girl to helll, I presume.

 

[Kenny]

Not why Yahweh would send the Hindu girl to helll, I presume.

?? Can you quote me the verse please?

 

[ppp]

?? Can you quote me the verse please?

Nope. I cannot.

 

[metis]

Yes... archaeology is still in flux - do you know anyone who is in that field of expertise?

Ya, I do.

I think that the basics of Baal/Molech and Asherah isn't an issue for MOST archaeologist. Am I wrong?

They seem to be more of a mixture of groups that the Greeks called "Phoenicians" and/or "Philistines"-- sort of a mix & match grouping that evolved over time. Thus, you're not wrong [for once!], but it's almost like you took various regional groups with differing beliefs, put them in a blender, and viola! Not only is their ethnicity complicated, so were their varied beliefs.

 

[Kenny]

Nope. I cannot.

I couldn't find one either. God judges the heart, man judges what he sees.

 

[ppp]

I couldn't find one either.

It doesn't really matter. All of the Christians who believe that the only way to avoid hell is to repent and declare Jesus Christ as your personal yadayada can point you to the passages that support their take on Christianity.

 

[Kenny]

Ya, I do.
They seem to be more of a mixture of groups that the Greeks called "Phoenicians" and/or "Philistines"-- sort of a mix & match grouping that evolved over time. Thus, you're not wrong [for once!], but it's almost like you took various regional groups with differing beliefs, put them in a blender, and viola! Not only is their ethnicity complicated, so were their varied beliefs.

I'm not Mr. Know It All, but if there is such a group, I figure God knows what group they are.

 

[Kenny]

It doesn't really matter. All of the Christians who believe that the only way to avoid hell is to repent and declare Jesus Christ as your personal yadayada can point you to the passages that support their take on Christianity.

I assume this is a side discussion and not about the OP? (I'm not against a side discussion)