Yay! It's All Me

[ajay0]

These are simple concepts. There is no reason to exclude anyone from making comments unless one is setting up a caste system of ivory tower elites. Then the elite have a reason to protect their self-bestowed superior status.

Enlightenment is a state of experiential understanding, not mere intellectual understanding.

Without the experiential understanding, one is bound to get the intellectual understanding wrong, and Virochana is a case study in this regard referred to in the ancient upanishads as an example of one who had a deluded understanding of reality instead of the correct one due to his uneducated speculations. His example is cited to avoid wrong streams of deluded thinking and reasoning.

You just contradicted yourself. First you say that common folk should not comment, then you say that dogs and cats are gurus of they have something to teach.

Dogs and cats and most animals are considered to be in tune with nature or present moment.

By common people, I mean the vast majority of humanity who are driven by their ideologies,strong desires in the form of cravings and aversions , and who are highly unconscious rather than in present moment awareness.

The tragic and brutal bloodshed and massacre taking place in Israel at present amongst the Jews and Muslims even though both stem from the same Abrahamic family, is an example of such unconsciousness among human beings.

Those who are highly unconscious are prone to such violence.

You don't see animals committing genocide in the name of religion or nationality or race amongst their own species.

This encourages, promotes, and propagates the illusion that one is superior than another. Naturally the aspirant loves this because they immagiine themself being worshipped someday. It is an attachment to the "relative", and it acknowledges the the inherent duality of reality. Whomever is being worshipped cannot be Brahman, because the one who is worshipping is exccluding themself from it.

The aspirant can also love the devotional process on account of the auspiciousness, high prana/chi levels and wisdom acquired in the company of the enlightened.

If the aspirant seeks Buddhahood and the fame that comes with it, and for this purpose worships the enlightened sage, that form of worship will not be of much utility as the desire for fame and attention is a charecterestic of the ego.

Such worship is bound to be short-lived unless the sage can show him the futility of all external desires for happiness of a permanent nature.

Worship or reverence of any "thing" denies that the thing being worshipped is Brahman.

Saguna Brahman is Brahman with form, in the form of a personal God or Avatar or enlightened sage. By worshipping them, they do not cease to be Brahman.

It appears to do the opposite. It is propogating an attachment to "relative" reality and a dualistic world-view where some are superior and the majority are ignorant slaves.

Worship of Saguna Brahman or God/Divinity bringing about a dualistic world-view of superiority and inferiority is only brought about when there are scriptural injunctions of being the 'chosen people' or 'Believer-infidel' paradigms conditioned to its adherents. Such nonsense can create artificial barriers where there is none.

Advaita states that Brahman is perceived in a purified consciousness within oneself. The enlightened sage is just someone who had done the same, and he or she is worshipped by bhakta yogis for faster spiritual growth.

When the disciple or devotee attains enlightenment, there is no difference discernible between the enlightened master and the enlightened student.

Worship of God and the enlightened sages is done by bhaktya yogis ( yoga of emotion).

There is also karma yoga (yoga of action), jnana yoga ( yoga of the intellect) , raja yoga (yoga of mysticism) where the adherents need not have to abide by bhakti yoga or these practices for attaining enlightenment. It all boils down to individual preference and temperament on the path they would follow.

 

[NadjjaXXI]

Hi all,

I’m new here and joined this forum specifically because of another thread entitled ‘The Void, Emptiness, and Infinite or Eternal’. This drew my attention, however, as I too, have had an experience of ‘oneness’, quite a few years ago. I realise this is an old thread, apologies. By way of introduction, I guess I would call myself an occultist or esotericist (leaning more towards the LHP- but not necessarily in the way most people view it). I resonate quite strongly with Anti-Cosmic Satanism and the Draconian Current, (if that means anything to anyone), but am flexible in my approach and practice overall. I’m sure why you can see how a thread entitled ‘The Void, Emptiness…’ drew me in *rolls eyes at self* haha. Anyway below is a brief(ish) summary of how ‘oneness’ or at least approaching that state, felt to me…

It was certainly an incredibly intense initiatory step for me personally - I saw/felt/KNEW the illusory nature of ‘reality’ and how all stems from Self. BUT, I also realised and understood clearly that the opposite IS also true and valid. In my opinion, we are simultaneously both ‘perspectives’ so to speak. I think the following supports this:

“Everything is dual; everything has poles; everything has its pair of opposites; like and unlike are the same; opposites are identical in nature, but different in degree; extremes meet; all truths are but half-truths; all paradoxes may be reconciled."’

To be clear - I personally take this idea to it’s most extreme conclusion, I quite literally believe that both states are equally, completely true simultaneously. So while as I can say that ‘everything is of me/from me and existing within my mind; it is equally as true that ‘everything I encounter in the outside world is separate and distinct from me, and exists independently of my mind’. This is my opinion at least.

I suddenly felt like everything is coming together. Not like parts of my psyche but everything that exists. If I remember correctly it felt like I became the one consciousness and it is all me

There seems to be consistency in that these experiences of Oneness/Union with Source/Crossing the Abyss (as per Hermetic Qabalistic ideas)- whatever you want to call it, indeed manifest as a collapse ‘inward’, which seems counterintuitive as most people would probably envision a union with the All/Source to entail some sort of expansion, as opposed to contraction.

My experience, however, was not pleasant, at all. It was in fact terrifying, It was as though a tiny black seed of doubt that I always carried with me, suddenly sprouted and grew into a full-on solipsistic nightmare.

On the plus side: ‘oh yay, it’s all me!’;

On the downside ‘oh…it’s all me’

I also had experiences where I got sudden realizations that everything is a dream and it is all me, that I am alone

This essentially ^, but in is most extreme form. When the full realisation of that takes hold, it does indeed ‘destroy the universe’.

But when I was able to push through the horror, and when I switched back into the other ‘perspective’ - I was able to integrate and make sense of this experience, and I can honestly say the insight it gave me into the nature of reality changed my life

I theorise that there are stages or levels, so to speak, within his overall experience. With this in mind, I must have been somewhat deeper than The Dreamer (the deepest level, naturally being complete and utter annihilation of the Self - the absorption back into the All completely - imo at least.) I do remember that in the beginning stages (the whole ordeal lasted around 3-4 days or so) it also felt exciting and ‘positive’ to me, but past a certain level the horror kicked in. I’ll be honest, I wouldn’t recommend this at all to someone who is not prepared or actively seeking it, not unless they’re willing to risk possible death/insanity. Losing one’s mind is in the Abyss is a very real possibility I discovered- as it is incredibly disorientating. I must add that I personally was not trying to achieve this state when it occurred - I believe that it occurred as a ‘side effect’ if you will, of some work I was doing with a specific spirit - but that’s a long story. I believe this is probably partly why it was so shocking and jarring for me - as I had no prior preparation.

I also came to the conclusion that there is no inherent ‘right’ or correct state to be in or aim for- both are valid and I think both have value in their own way, and I think it’s down to preference ultimately. Personally I tend more towards the side of ‘all is Maya etc’, because I don’t particularly enjoy life and in many ways I regard material existence as a state of severe limitation. BUT I can also see that there is value in the physical plane, as it’s the plane where we ‘build’ and strive towards tangible manifestation of goals etc.

I can also see why some people label this as ‘escapist’ - which I think is technically true, but nevertheless certainly not ‘wrong’. I know a lot of traditional ‘left hand pathers’ see this goal as abhorrent, but I do not share this view. I see the desire to unite with Source’ as being a very worthy goal and something I think a person has every right to pursue. On the other hand, I must admit that as much a I generally dislike ‘existence’, when I’m having a bite of my favourite food or listening to my favourite music, etc - I’m not exactly yearning for annihilation at that exact moment - so again I see some merit in the argument ‘for’ life, experience, creation etc.

 

[The Dreamer]

Hi all,

I’m new here and joined this forum specifically because of another thread entitled ‘The Void, Emptiness, and Infinite or Eternal’. This drew my attention, however, as I too, have had an experience of ‘oneness’, quite a few years ago. I realise this is an old thread, apologies. By way of introduction, I guess I would call myself an occultist or esotericist (leaning more towards the LHP- but not necessarily in the way most people view it). I resonate quite strongly with Anti-Cosmic Satanism and the Draconian Current, (if that means anything to anyone), but am flexible in my approach and practice overall. I’m sure why you can see how a thread entitled ‘The Void, Emptiness…’ drew me in *rolls eyes at self* haha. Anyway below is a brief(ish) summary of how ‘oneness’ or at least approaching that state, felt to me…

It was certainly an incredibly intense initiatory step for me personally - I saw/felt/KNEW the illusory nature of ‘reality’ and how all stems from Self. BUT, I also realised and understood clearly that the opposite IS also true and valid. In my opinion, we are simultaneously both ‘perspectives’ so to speak. I think the following supports this:

“Everything is dual; everything has poles; everything has its pair of opposites; like and unlike are the same; opposites are identical in nature, but different in degree; extremes meet; all truths are but half-truths; all paradoxes may be reconciled."’

To be clear - I personally take this idea to it’s most extreme conclusion, I quite literally believe that both states are equally, completely true simultaneously. So while as I can say that ‘everything is of me/from me and existing within my mind; it is equally as true that ‘everything I encounter in the outside world is separate and distinct from me, and exists independently of my mind’. This is my opinion at least.



There seems to be consistency in that these experiences of Oneness/Union with Source/Crossing the Abyss (as per Hermetic Qabalistic ideas)- whatever you want to call it, indeed manifest as a collapse ‘inward’, which seems counterintuitive as most people would probably envision a union with the All/Source to entail some sort of expansion, as opposed to contraction.

My experience, however, was not pleasant, at all. It was in fact terrifying, It was as though a tiny black seed of doubt that I always carried with me, suddenly sprouted and grew into a full-on solipsistic nightmare.

On the plus side: ‘oh yay, it’s all me!’;

On the downside ‘oh…it’s all me’



This essentially ^, but in is most extreme form. When the full realisation of that takes hold, it does indeed ‘destroy the universe’.

But when I was able to push through the horror, and when I switched back into the other ‘perspective’ - I was able to integrate and make sense of this experience, and I can honestly say the insight it gave me into the nature of reality changed my life

I theorise that there are stages or levels, so to speak, within his overall experience. With this in mind, I must have been somewhat deeper than The Dreamer (the deepest level, naturally being complete and utter annihilation of the Self - the absorption back into the All completely - imo at least.) I do remember that in the beginning stages (the whole ordeal lasted around 3-4 days or so) it also felt exciting and ‘positive’ to me, but past a certain level the horror kicked in. I’ll be honest, I wouldn’t recommend this at all to someone who is not prepared or actively seeking it, not unless they’re willing to risk possible death/insanity. Losing one’s mind is in the Abyss is a very real possibility I discovered- as it is incredibly disorientating. I must add that I personally was not trying to achieve this state when it occurred - I believe that it occurred as a ‘side effect’ if you will, of some work I was doing with a specific spirit - but that’s a long story. I believe this is probably partly why it was so shocking and jarring for me - as I had no prior preparation.

I also came to the conclusion that there is no inherent ‘right’ or correct state to be in or aim for- both are valid and I think both have value in their own way, and I think it’s down to preference ultimately. Personally I tend more towards the side of ‘all is Maya etc’, because I don’t particularly enjoy life and in many ways I regard material existence as a state of severe limitation. BUT I can also see that there is value in the physical plane, as it’s the plane where we ‘build’ and strive towards tangible manifestation of goals etc.

I can also see why some people label this as ‘escapist’ - which I think is technically true, but nevertheless certainly not ‘wrong’. I know a lot of traditional ‘left hand pathers’ see this goal as abhorrent, but I do not share this view. I see the desire to unite with Source’ as being a very worthy goal and something I think a person has every right to pursue. On the other hand, I must admit that as much a I generally dislike ‘existence’, when I’m having a bite of my favourite food or listening to my favourite music, etc - I’m not exactly yearning for annihilation at that exact moment - so again I see some merit in the argument ‘for’ life, experience, creation etc.

Aah your post made me feel nostalgic. I remember coming across ToBL during my search for a spiritual path. It resonated with me a lot but I chose a different path. I haven't discarded ToBL and may look at it again.

It is interesting that you told your experience was negative. Hinduism/Buddhism categorizes these kind of experiences and if I am not wrong the highest state is Nirvana and it means "pure bliss". In that experience I mentioned in my OP there was no room for boredom or "I". I wasn't even thinking "it is all me" actually I transcended myself. I think I experienced some kind of shock but it wasn't an overall a negative experience at all. On the contrary at that time I was badly depressed and anxious but when that Oneness came my suffering disappeared for a while. I cannot remember the exact experience but it may be true that there was some kind of a destruction feeling (the destruction of the world) but since I was suffering a lot I welcomed it. Since then I had similar but less intense experiences and none of them was negative. BTW I am not trying to say my enlightenment level was deeper then yours but what you have told about the negativeness seemed strange to me.

I don't know much about Qabalah but I think I got to the Kether for a while. This part about Kether and Ein Soph from wikipedia is beautiful strongly resonates with me:

The first Sephirah is called the Crown, since a crown is worn above the head. The Crown therefore refers to things that are above the mind's abilities of comprehension. All of the other Sephirot are likened to the body which starts with the head and winds its way down into action. But the crown of a king lies above the head and connects the concept of "monarchy", which is abstract and intangible, with the tangible and concrete head of the king.

This first Sefirah represents the primal stirrings of intent in the Ein Soph (infinity), or the arousal of desire to come forth into the varied life of being.[2] But in this sense, although it contains all the potential for content, it contains no content itself, and is therefore called 'Nothing', 'The Hidden Light', 'The air that cannot be grasped'. Being desire to bring the world into being, Keter is absolute compassion.[3]

Before He gave any shape to the world, before He produced any form, He was alone, without form and without resemblance to anything else. Who then can comprehend how He was before the Creation? Hence it is forbidden to lend Him any form or similitude, or even to call Him by His sacred name, or to indicate Him by a single letter or a single point... But after He created the form of the Heavenly Man, He used him as a chariot wherein to descend,

When I am reaching to the Enlightened state I am not that afraid of death or insanity because then remember that I am the God/Consciousness so if I am insane there is no sanity, if I am dead there is no life. I am not feeling invincible right now because I am not in enlightened state but I had that. I think I cannot really die. I am the consciousness and if my current body died it means that I decided to end the current dream and start a new dream. If I went insane then insanity has to be because I have chosen it as the omniscient Consciousness.

You said that you don’t particularly enjoy life and regard material existence as a state of severe limitation. But if you accept dualism and the material world as we see it then suffering is inevitable. I think one should seek out the God because God is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient. All beings and things serve and bow down to the Consciousness.

 

[The Dreamer]

To be clear - I personally take this idea to it’s most extreme conclusion, I quite literally believe that both states are equally, completely true simultaneously. So while as I can say that ‘everything is of me/from me and existing within my mind; it is equally as true that ‘everything I encounter in the outside world is separate and distinct from me, and exists independently of my mind’. This is my opinion at least.

Omg I think I understand what you are saying here now. Like "you are" creating everything but your essence is also separete from your creation. Like a dream is in our mind but it is also perceived as if it has it's own mind.

 

[NadjjaXXI]

@The Dreamer **Important note: I drafted the below response prior to re-reading your posts (which I have now done) I think I misremembered somewhat, so take it with a pinch of salt, but I’ll post what I drafted regardless, and I’ll post a subsequent update soon**

Yes, I see what you’re getting at. Again, I think the experience is, or maybe its better to say - can be- , one of peace and bliss - but it depends on how it is approached and again, how deep one ventures . Here’s an example:


Say I’m feeling stressed/anxious or whatever. I decide to sit on my sofa with the intention of meditating. There’s a cup of coffee on the table in front of me and my dinner is in the oven. I can hear my partner in the next room on his PC. My neighbours are being noisy and there are people walking their dogs in the road outside, etc. I slip into a light meditation, and I begin to slowly approach the experience of unity. I start to remember that it’s all illusion, that ultimately ‘it’s all just me’, as you said. I start to feel that familiar sense of ‘knowing’; I feel calmer, more in control and reassured - I feel PEACE. But, note that I specified ‘light meditation’. I am still, in this context, to a large extent grounded and enmeshed in physical or ’transactional’ reality. If my dinner started burning, I’d get up and deal with it; if my partner called down and asked me a question - I’d answer etc. Ie. life still exists independently around me and I am to some extent aware of this, while simultaneously being somewhat vaguely aware of the illusory nature of it all. It’s a sort of ‘sweet spot’ between these two states, and therefore the experience is one of peace and reassurance, as opposed to a madness inducing existential crisis. In my opinion, this sort of scenario is still well ‘below’ the abyss, to use western esoteric language.


Now If you keep pushing, further and further into ‘ultimate’ reality, at some point you’re going to have to ‘cross the abyss’, and that’s when things get highly disorientating. When you’re that far removed from ‘transactional’ reality - NOTHING exists outside of your mind. This, of course, includes your problems, enemies, everything you hate in this world, BUT ALSO - everything that you have ever loved, valued, cherished. Your family, friends, beloved pets, everything you’ve achieved in life, every experience you’ve ever had. I mean quite literally nothing, not a single thing, is excluded from the list of ‘it’s all in my head’. This is deeply distressing if you’re unprepared for it.


But this leads back to the original question - why is it that the deeper layer/s of the experience of unity is described by traditional sources as one of bliss. This DOES seem at odds with what I described as being a horrible trauma, so I see what you’re getting at. OK, well the thing is, once I was actually able to integrate and overcome the highly unpleasant realisation of supreme loneliness, and once I (as described in my initial post above) simultaneously realised that transactional reality is in fact just as ‘real’ as the ultimate reality (this is of course my personal opinion and probably not what is commonly accepted), at that point, it became an experience of empowerment. This is I think, in terms of western spirituality, a pretty standard template of initiation into higher modes of understanding/being - ’gnosis’.


Again though, I admit there seems to be a discrepancy here in that western esotericists have to endure the ‘crossing of the abyss’ as a precursor to union, whereas it does appear, at least to my knowledge, that it’s not necessarily the case for followers of traditional eastern RHP systems; it seems that they don’t generally experience the same ‘shock to the system’. My theory is that perhaps its because often these people are born into religious systems where they encounter this world view from an early age (I assume at least), and also because the goal of union is approached in a highly systematic way, over an extended period of time. So I would imagine that once the goal is reached, it is something which they are prepared for. This is how I see it at least - I certainly don’t want to speak on behalf of anyone who follows such a path - this has simply been my observation and its how I reconcile the two approaches to union between eastern and western systems.


I guess I was just trying to urge you to be very cautious when approaching this, and to do it in a structured way. I mean who knows, maybe every person’s experience is different - maybe you won’t encounter that horrific loneliness, but I can’t help but feel it’s a real possibility, and so it is something to be aware of. **Although, as per my note above, I’ve now re-read your post and think I have a better understanding of your experience - so I will update my ‘advice’ accordingly when I get a chance**

Omg I think I understand what you are saying here now. Like "you are" creating everything but your essence is also separete from your creation. Like a dream is in our mind but it is also perceived as if it has it's own mind.

Erm, not exactly, but also paradoxically - ‘yes’ in a way. This is important so I’ll explain in a future post.

I am going to respond to your DM within the next few days or so. I think you are on to something in the way you have explained your goal