Yemeni child bride dies after internal bleeding on marriage night

[Koldo]

Peace
So far not a single member could give me direct answer to my question.So much for intellect.
I married my wife at the age of 10.I don't have any problem in my marriage.I come from a very wealthy family and so does my wife.It seems some members regard my marriage as immoral others regard me as an pedophile.What a sham.How ridiculous can you get?You are definately living in glass house.Its about time that you wake up.Get out of your glass homes and start breathing fresh air because it will do a whole lot of good to your brains.
The difficulty in answering my question makes it quite obvious that your agenda is nothing but throwing stones.If you born inside your tunnel vision then its about time that you learn to respect others that are in their own tunnel.My marriage to my wife is very successful and so is all my children.The divorce rate in my family is zero and there is no ways that i am going to change my way of life to another way of life that will never understand the meaning of the word morality.
Now stop your barbaric attacks on my marriage.
Peace
Farouk

Your perspective of the event is utterly irrelevant.
It is your wife's perspective that matters.

Regarding your question, there isn't any set age that a male or female is ready to marry. It depends on whether the person is able to give his/her ( informed ) consent.

 

[Pastek]

I married my wife at the age of 10.I don't have any problem in my marriage.I come from a very wealthy family and so does my wife.It seems some members regard my marriage as immoral others regard me as an pedophile.What a sham.How ridiculous can you get?You are definately living in glass house.Its about time that you wake up.Get out of your glass homes and start breathing fresh air because it will do a whole lot of good to your brains.

My grand mother married at the age of 11 but it was in 1930 !
Her older daughter married at the age of 15 in 1950, my mother at 25 in the 70's.
And my family is from a village, not a wealthy family at all.

My aunt was very sad to be married instead of going to school like my mother.
She was even jealous of her because she could'nt be with other people of her age, nor write and read.

If you think that a child of 8 can marry because some years/centuries before they did, do you think that we can also allow a teenager to go to war ?

Live with your time and fight for the right of children.

You saw her, right ?

[youtube]-J7_TKgw1To[/youtube]
11-Year-Old Yemeni Girl Nada Al-Ahdal Flees Home to Avoid Forced Marriage: I'd Rather Kill Myself - YouTube

 

[RedJamaX]

While I agree that this practice is absolutely vile, you do realize that you are saying that Islam is not a religion of peace nor science because of the actions of one disguisting man?

This "would" be a good point, except when you compare Islam to other religions. Christianity is the closest in our documented history to come to the atrocious levels of violence that is perpetuated by Islam. The true measure of how destructive a religion can be is a level that is set by it's extremists. A fundamentalist Jane wears a veil over their mouths to prevent from killing a bug accidentally. Fundamentalist Christians have recently killed abortion clinic doctors, black people and homosexuals based on their scripture. In the past they started wars and burned people alive. Now, there are certainly many many cases of sexual abuse being performed by people of the Christian faith, but I have never EVER heard one line of scripture being used to back it up... Those are cases of pedophiles who happen to be Christian.

And that "would" apply to Islam, except they actually have scripture to defend their act of pedophilia. They kill people and burn down buildings because of a cartoon. The decapitate children. They stone women to death for any act that she might find her own pleasure, but allow men to get a two hour marriage so they can have sex with a slave prostitute.

Islam is by far the worst form of religion to have ever shown is ugly face (edited) in recent history. If we read about these things as having happened 2,000, 1,000, or even 500 years ago, we could chock it up to ignorance of ridiculous traditions... But these things happen NOW, TODAY... and in countries that have already been through an industrial age and have even embraced the information age... There is NO justification for this type of barbaric social construct.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Islam is by far the worst form of religion to have ever shown is ugly face on this earth.

I was with you up till this point. There have been worse; not in contemporary religious traditions, but certainly in history.

Moreover this kind of emotional hyperbole is unhelpful.

 

[RedJamaX]

Can any intellectual person tell me what age is ripe for a male or female to get married?
Tks in advance.
Peace
Farouk

There is no "physical" age... It is a measure of mental development when the individual can make a choice for herself, and enter into the marriage as a consenting ADULT. In this day and age there is no excuse at all for any society to hold on to such ridiculous dogma as forced marriage (you can call it arranged if you want, I call it forced). And if you cannot see how this kind of practice leads to social degradation and prevents progress then you are the one who is blind.

I'm sure many people will have lots of problems with my posts on this topic... claiming I need to give respect to people's beliefs, and that it's not the religion, it's the individual... NO, when the religion supports the evil deed... it is most definitely the religion that is at fault. and Islam supports viloence... I don't care how many "good" people there are who are Muslim, they are not the measure of how disgusting the religion really is... it is those who can use the words to commit violent acts who are the measure of how evil a religion can be at it's core.

#1. Don't give me this crap that it was not "violence", but an "act of love"... When you are using your penis to tear the flesh of any female as she is, screaming, cringing, crying, writhing in pain ...

#2. Forget the apologetic, I've read it... "Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings be upon him) did not marry Ayesha when she was only 6 years old. Her parents offered marriage as was customary in their culture at the time. However, the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) did not accept this and they waited a number of years before offering marriage to him again."

What number of years?? 2, 3, 4 ... At what age is it "ok" to force yourself onto a female??

 

[RedJamaX]

I was with you up till this point. There have been worse; not in contemporary religious traditions, but certainly in history.

Moreover this kind of emotional hyperbole is unhelpful.

corrected....

 

[farouk]

At least your wife didn't die or become injured by your coupling with her at such a young age. Maybe her body was physically bigger than the the unfortunate 8 year old. I wonder if your wife had a clue what was actually going?
Do you not feel any compassion for children who should be living their childhood, playing with dolls (or toy cars), singing along to The Lion King, instead of having to please men in whatever way they so desire, whenever they desire, which will be their lot in life soon enough anyway?
I will never agree that this practice should be condoned and I don't live in a glass house, I just have a heart.
How do you feel about 40 year old woman having sex with 10 year old boy? Just out of curiosity.

Peace
Yes.My wife did not die because i was a man who understood how to handle a woman.So far as dolls is concerned i know of 30year old woman play and sleep with dolls and teddy bears.Now does that make them children.Remember what your heart agree with is good for you and that does not mean everyone should follow your heart.If a 10 year boy has reached his manhood and he marries a 40year old woman then let it be.Why would that envy your heart?
Peace
farouk

 

[crossfire]

I was with you up till this point. There have been worse; not in contemporary religious traditions, but certainly in history.

Moreover this kind of emotional hyperbole is unhelpful.

Here's a handy chart of the 20 worst things humans have done to one another throughout history. Politics, not religion (unless you count some political movements as religion) is overwhelmingly responsible for these atrocities, as you can see.

Twentieth Century Atlas - Historical Body Count

 

[illykitty]

Peace
So far not a single member could give me direct answer to my question.So much for intellect.

Or maybe you ignored people's answers. I was 10 when I reached puberty and my body was NOT like of an adult's. There's no way that I could have been married to an adult and have sex with them. A grown man's part is way too big and sex is something that require emotional and mental maturity too.

What is your answer to this? It comes from personal experience so I'm not talking out of nowhere.

Your wife is lucky that she was married to a young boy and not someone 5 times her age, like the poor Yemeni child bride was. I still think it's too much responsibility for children though and that education is the most important thing.

 

[farouk]

To be fair, the divorce rate in your family being zero does not mean that everyone in your family is perfectly happily married. I obviously do not know your family; I am not trying to argue that they aren't happily married. They very well might be. I'm just saying, quoting a divorce rate doesn't really say much and shouldn't be used as evidence of success.​

Peace
I have 14 children and they all are happily married at an early age.Give me a good reason why a divorce rate should not be used as an evidence of success?
Note that is why i mentioned that if you are living in your tunnell vision then respect others that live inside theirs.
Peace
Farouk

 

[farouk]

Your perspective of the event is utterly irrelevant.
It is your wife's perspective that matters.

Regarding your question, there isn't any set age that a male or female is ready to marry. It depends on whether the person is able to give his/her ( informed ) consent.

Peace
Tks for your answer.Its the only intellectual answer that i had so far.
FYI In any Islamic marriage the consent of marriage must come from both parties(man and woman).Futher the woman has 3 withness that represents her consent at the time of the ceremony.Just to repeat not 1 but 3.No time to go into detail but i suggest you get more knowledge on the subject.
Peace
Farouk

 

[Father Heathen]

Child bride in Yemen dies of internal bleeding on wedding night: activist

Religion of peace. Religion of science. These are epithets we hear about Islam from Muslims all the time. And then we see stories like this, which make us realize that these aren't the case. And it's not just science which says something like this is just ignorant. Common sense does too.

So why do Muslims practice this? Do they not know that a child's body is not mature enough to handle this? Nor are their minds developed enough for this. It's just plain ignorant to think that a child is ready for marriage, and all the things that go along with it. Do Muslims not know that science has already determined that things like this are a bad idea?

You know a religion and/or culture is complete filth of no redeeming value when it leads a person to forgo reason, compassion, and their very humanity.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Here's a handy chart of the 20 worst things humans have done to one another throughout history. Politics, not religion (unless you count some political movements as religion) is overwhelmingly responsible for these atrocities, as you can see.

Twentieth Century Atlas - Historical Body Count

I am unsure what this has to do with my post other than to suggest bad things have happened in history; many of which I am more than willing to concede had nothing to do with religion, or only as an ancillary issue while in others it was central.

 

[RedJamaX]

Here's a handy chart of the 20 worst things humans have done to one another throughout history. Politics, not religion (unless you count some political movements as religion) is overwhelmingly responsible for these atrocities, as you can see.

Twentieth Century Atlas - Historical Body Count

A body-count chart does not constitute a level of evil. While I do agree that most wars and acts of violence committed at an organization level are backed by politics... religion has been used, and is still used as justification for the act.

Also, least we not forget it was strictly religious motivation to burn "witches" alive, throw wives on burning funeral pyres, cook people slowly on a metal chair in a Colosseum for everybody to watch, feed people to hungry lions, ... oh, and rape children.

AND, looking back through the historical development of government and religion.. it is clear that in our earliest civilizations (Egypt, Mesopotamia) they were one in the same... which certainly was a strategy to provide a greater level on control of the people.

 

[underthesun]

Peace
I have 14 children and they all are happily married at an early age.Give me a good reason why a divorce rate should not be used as an evidence of success?
Note that is why i mentioned that if you are living in your tunnell vision then respect others that live inside theirs.
Peace
Farouk​

What did I say that makes you think I am "living in my tunnel vision"? Please do not confuse my comment with those comments from others; I'm not even trying to have a conversation about the morality of young marriage or whether there is a 'right' or 'wrong' age. I'm not taking about that at all. My objection to using divorce rate as evidence would be the same if all of your children and your wife got married in their 40s. I still find divorce rate to be irrelevant.

There are so many other factors for why a couple might not get divorced other than their marriage being 'successful'. Cultural peer pressure is one of them. If a person is in a society where divorce is stigmatized, they might have a terrible, unhappy marriage that is completely unsuccessful and still not get divorced. They might have a religious objection to the concept of divorce. There might be kids involved that skew things. Or, they might just not want to get divorced. I know couples that have been married for forty-odd years, have never considered divorce, but certainly are not in 'successful' marriages because neither of them are truly happy in their marriage.

Staying married and not getting a divorce doesn't make the marriage happy and successful.​

 

[RedJamaX]

Peace
Tks for your answer.Its the only intellectual answer that i had so far.
FYI In any Islamic marriage the consent of marriage must come from both parties(man and woman).Futher the woman has 3 withness that represents her consent at the time of the ceremony.Just to repeat not 1 but 3.No time to go into detail but i suggest you get more knowledge on the subject.
Peace
Farouk

And do you TRULY think that at the age of 10, your "wife" understood the concept of marriage??? Part of the concept of consent requires that the party consenting completely understands what they are consenting to. Perhaps in the Muslim world it only requires a "yes", regardless of whether the yes is due to a gun at their head, a knife at their throat, watching their family starve to death, or simply because their parents told them to say yes...

In ANY of those situation, that is not an example of "consent".

 

[farouk]

My grand mother married at the age of 11 but it was in 1930 !
Her older daughter married at the age of 15 in 1950, my mother at 25 in the 70's.
And my family is from a village, not a wealthy family at all.

My aunt was very sad to be married instead of going to school like my mother.
She was even jealous of her because she could'nt be with other people of her age, nor write and read.

If you think that a child of 8 can marry because some years/centuries before they did, do you think that we can also allow a teenager to go to war ?

Live with your time and fight for the right of children.

You saw her, right ?

[youtube]-J7_TKgw1To[/youtube]
11-Year-Old Yemeni Girl Nada Al-Ahdal Flees Home to Avoid Forced Marriage: I'd Rather Kill Myself - YouTube

Peace
I question to you
Is it moral or immoral to marry a woman 10 years old?
Keep in mind that all Islamic marriages requires the consent of both parties.In other words there is no force on either party.
Peace
Farouk

 

[Koldo]

Peace
I have 14 children and they all are happily married at an early age.Give me a good reason why a divorce rate should not be used as an evidence of success?
Note that is why i mentioned that if you are living in your tunnell vision then respect others that live inside theirs.
Peace
Farouk

It hasn't been that long when countries in the west were conservative to the point where if a woman were to divorce she would be left with nothing and be rejected by her own family. Lacking the means to sustain herself and unable to claim any rights over her children. Many do rather stick to their marriages because the other option would lead to a far worse result.

( Heck, even to this day we hear about woman struggling to get out of abusive relationships. )

Considering what i read about the islamic societies, i may be wrong, but i suspect many women in these countries are in the same circumstance.
And that's why divorce rate doesn't mean much.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

It is extremely unlikely that a ten year old is sufficiently mature and informed about the world and her rights that she is able to give informed consent to a binding union with another person.

In much the same way that we could not expect her to be capable of giving informed consent to form a contract for renovating her home (had ownership somehow passed into her hands) or to be able to sell one of her kidneys, heck of even buying a mobile phone with a plan. At ten years of age one is highly unlikely to be capable of informed consent for MOST contractual arrangements, and marriage is a prolonged and onerous contract (particularly islamic marriage for a woman in terms of expectations, not necessarily in terms of hardship) with extremely high barriers to contract nullification

 

[Koldo]

Peace
Tks for your answer.Its the only intellectual answer that i had so far.
FYI In any Islamic marriage the consent of marriage must come from both parties(man and woman).Futher the woman has 3 withness that represents her consent at the time of the ceremony.Just to repeat not 1 but 3.No time to go into detail but i suggest you get more knowledge on the subject.
Peace
Farouk

Let me make one thing clear.
If the woman was pressured or coerced into saying 'yes' and/or didn't actually comprehend what this answer entailed, then it can't be said that informed consent was given.

I highly doubt a 8 or 10 years old girl comprehends what it actually means to get married, even more in a islamic country. I doubt even more that when it happens it is not because the family pressured the child into accepting it.