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Nehustan
Well-Known Member
divine said:
From my research it would appear to me that IHVH (jahweh) is the word, in fact the voice that spoke to Moses announced himself 'Eheieh Asher Eheieh' telling Moses to tell the Israelites to call him 'I am'. I think that my God is without form and the being that we often have described as 'God' in the bible may in fact be an entity/entities (i.e. chronological inheritance) which has guided man over the Aeons in what can only be described as a 'fatherly' manner as he certainly appears to be within dimensions. I think we have a difficulty here in that where we just have the word 'God' in English, might in fact be several different words conveying several different ideas. To illustrate my point...New Jerusalem....Captain called Jahweh, XO (Executive Officer) called Jeheshuah (at his right hand perhaps?). I don't discount when I read Genesis that the stellar system may well have been created some time after the first heaven (i.e. space). I have no problem believing this AND that Allah is the creator as I am taught that not a quark moves other than by the infinite and absolute's command, and that all occurs within the first heaven occurs using means (i.e. Who invented/created Radio?).
Halcyon
Lord of the Badgers
I don't think it was hypothetical, Yeshua was a very popular name back then.angellous_evangellous said:
For example, it is speculated that Bartholomew was called such because his name was Yesua bar Tolmay, and the apostles wanted to distinguish him from the Master.
Personally, i use Jesus for the most part, everyone knows who Jesus is, not as many know who you are talking about if you use Yeshua.
In my head, when i am reading or thinking about him, i use Yeshua because that was his actual name. If you called him Jesus to his face, he'd give you a blank stare - that's my roundabout logic anyway.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Sunstone said:
It hurts my eyes.
Besides, the only good use for a strawman is to light it on fire.
Burn, baby, burn!!! :camp:
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Halcyon said:I don't think it was hypothetical...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua
"The claim that the form Yeshua is the original name for Jesus is debatable - other possibilities are that it was Yehoshua or that the Greek form itself was the original (Greek speaking communities existed in Israel already during the Hellenistic period and moreover our oldest manuscripts of the New Testament are in Greek). However, Jesus and his milieu normally spoke Aramaic, and Eusebius reports that Matthew wrote a gospel in "Hebrew" (a term used at the time for either Aramaic, or the Hebrew language proper). There is also evidence that the Gospel of John was originally written in Aramaic."
Comet
Harvey Wallbanger
angellous_evangellous said:
Should I be made at my hispanic friends who say Jesus like "Hey-zues"?
Seems to me it shouldn't matter what you call him if you are a follower of him- I really don't think he'd mind if you mis-pronounce his name. Seems to me your faith in him should be important and not what somebody else chooses to call him.
Just my 2 cents though- and Mr. T wanted me to add that isn't his real name but he doesn't mind you calling him that.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Comet said:
By no means. It is spelled Jesus. I am reffering to written form only.
This thread isn't about Jesus minding about what we call him, but my irritation with people who use a hypothetical pronounciation that is transliterated into English.
And yes, it would irritate me if someone stupidly wrote Hey-zeus in a Spanish language article on Jesus.
Comet
Harvey Wallbanger
angellous_evangellous said:By no means. It is spelled Jesus. I am reffering to written form only.
This thread isn't about Jesus minding about what we call him, but my irritation with people who use a hypothetical pronounciation that is transliterated into English.
And yes, it would irritate me if someone stupidly wrote Hey-zeus in a Spanish language article on Jesus.
Ahh, written form only then......
It so irritates me when I see "Nabucodonosor" in the Spanish Bible......
IT IS NEBUCHADNEZZAR!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't understand anything else it says, but that was his name.......
The title of this thread is that it is the same!!!!! If it is the same thing, then why does it matter which one somebody uses?
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Comet said:
You just merrily ignored the strawman that it creates and rushed on to inapplicable metaphors. :sleep:
Comet
Harvey Wallbanger
angellous_evangellous said:
I tend to ignore the strawman, just like the scarecrow, they are looking for a brain.
I understand you were venting, I just don't understand why it irritates you so much. (I know I am the same way with other things). I guess I just figure if you say they are the same......... then it is the same and others shouldn't get under your skin so much when they do use terms you don't care for - regardless of why they choose to use that term and not yours. Everyone is different and views things differently..... if one sees that Jesus and Yeshua are different, or the same, or whatever; more power to 'em. Understand it how you have to.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Sure, but some people prefer one over the other.
I reserve the right to be irritated by the fact that Yeshua is presented as a hypothetical transliteration that is useless in light of the normal English reference to the historical figure "Jesus."
No one said it did.
It doesn't matter. Some people try to distinguish the traditional Jesus from the historical Jesus by using the hypothetical "Yeshua." Some people don't, and ignorantly or carelessly like to use Yeshua because they actually were easily convinced that the pronounciation was correct. Either way, it is irritating to me.
If its the same name, why does it matter so much?
Yeshua hurts my brain. It's like fingernails on a chalkboard. No decent person should do it in public.
that's your opinion
Everyone is obviously aware of that. Hence the disclaimer in the OP. My opnion, however, is not baseless.
And in post # 5
I reserve the right to be irritated by the fact that Yeshua is presented as a hypothetical transliteration that is useless in light of the normal English reference to the historical figure "Jesus."
No one said it did.
It doesn't matter. Some people try to distinguish the traditional Jesus from the historical Jesus by using the hypothetical "Yeshua." Some people don't, and ignorantly or carelessly like to use Yeshua because they actually were easily convinced that the pronounciation was correct. Either way, it is irritating to me.
If its the same name, why does it matter so much?
Yeshua hurts my brain. It's like fingernails on a chalkboard. No decent person should do it in public.
that's your opinion
Everyone is obviously aware of that. Hence the disclaimer in the OP. My opnion, however, is not baseless.
Angellous said:
And in post # 5
Angellous said:
gnostic
The Lost One
This is beginning to sound more and more like a debate.
I am used to writing and using Jesus. But I have no problem with other people using Yeshua.
All the names we see in the current English-speaking bibles tends to use the Greek names instead of the original Hebrew/Jewish names.
Even the first book of the OT, "Genesis" is Greek, but I am quite sure that there is a Hebrew name for this book (though I don't know how this is written).
In classical mythology, I have the tendency prefer the Greek names over Latin, such as Zeus over Jupiter, Aphrodite over Venus, Heracles (or Herakles) over Hercules, etc, mainly because they are essentially Greek, not Roman characters.
I just don't see why you are getting upset over the spelling of names, Angellous Evangellous, when they actually have same meaning thing and the same person. It sort of like using Jacques, instead of Jacob. James instead of Jimmy. I would understand it if your own name is Jesus, but everyone else is calling you Yeshua, but I don't understand it when you becoming fussy over someone's name. I am sure that Jesus doesn't care what you call him.
Speaking of name, I noticed that your nick, Angellous Evangellous are very similar, but are different at the same time. And I use gnostic, but I am really agnostic, mainly because this drive some people up-the-walls.
I am used to writing and using Jesus. But I have no problem with other people using Yeshua.
All the names we see in the current English-speaking bibles tends to use the Greek names instead of the original Hebrew/Jewish names.
Even the first book of the OT, "Genesis" is Greek, but I am quite sure that there is a Hebrew name for this book (though I don't know how this is written).
In classical mythology, I have the tendency prefer the Greek names over Latin, such as Zeus over Jupiter, Aphrodite over Venus, Heracles (or Herakles) over Hercules, etc, mainly because they are essentially Greek, not Roman characters.
I just don't see why you are getting upset over the spelling of names, Angellous Evangellous, when they actually have same meaning thing and the same person. It sort of like using Jacques, instead of Jacob. James instead of Jimmy. I would understand it if your own name is Jesus, but everyone else is calling you Yeshua, but I don't understand it when you becoming fussy over someone's name.
I am sure that Jesus doesn't care what you call him.Speaking of name, I noticed that your nick, Angellous Evangellous are very similar, but are different at the same time. And I use gnostic, but I am really agnostic, mainly because this drive some people up-the-walls.
I wonder if anyone here knows the laws or rules that most learned individuals would accept when translating a word from one language to another. I wonder if there is a difference when doing so with a persons name. I wonder if these rules were applied when translating the name of "Yahshua" into Greek and then from the Greek into English. I kinda see where the translation from the Greek into the English looks o.k. but me not being one that knows about these type things it makes me wonder if that is even correct. I do not believe that the translation from the Hebrew into the Greek was held to those rules. Again I could be wrong but I would have to see proof to that effect.When one looks at Strong's at the name "Yeshua" and see the way it is to be pronounced, it looks to me that it is as I first stated as "Yahshua". Funny how that is. Funny still how so many work so hard to hide the name of the Most High even when it is in ones name. As you can tell, I wonder allot.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
gnostic said:This is beginning to sound more and more like a debate.
I am used to writing and using Jesus. But I have no problem with other people using Yeshua.
All the names we see in the current English-speaking bibles tends to use the Greek names instead of the original Hebrew/Jewish names.
Even the first book of the OT, "Genesis" is Greek, but I am quite sure that there is a Hebrew name for this book (though I don't know how this is written).
In classical mythology, I have the tendency prefer the Greek names over Latin, such as Zeus over Jupiter, Aphrodite over Venus, Heracles (or Herakles) over Hercules, etc, mainly because they are essentially Greek, not Roman characters.
I just don't see why you are getting upset over the spelling of names, Angellous Evangellous, when they actually have same meaning thing and the same person. It sort of like using Jacques, instead of Jacob. James instead of Jimmy. I would understand it if your own name is Jesus, but everyone else is calling you Yeshua, but I don't understand it when you becoming fussy over someone's name.
Speaking of name, I noticed that your nick, Angellous Evangellous are very similar, but are different at the same time. And I use gnostic, but I am really agnostic, mainly because this drive some people up-the-walls.
This thread isn't about what Jesus would mind being called. :faint:
Discussion of off topic points only weakens one's position in a debate.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
wmam said:I wonder if anyone here knows the laws or rules that most learned individuals would accept when translating a word from one language to another. I wonder if there is a difference when doing so with a persons name. I wonder if these rules were applied when translating the name of "Yahshua" into Greek and then from the Greek into English. I kinda see where the translation from the Greek into the English looks o.k. but me not being one that knows about these type things it makes me wonder if that is even correct. I do not believe that the translation from the Hebrew into the Greek was held to those rules. Again I could be wrong but I would have to see proof to that effect.When one looks at Strong's at the name "Yeshua" and see the way it is to be pronounced, it looks to me that it is as I first stated as "Yahshua". Funny how that is. Funny still how so many work so hard to hide the name of the Most High even when it is in ones name. As you can tell, I wonder allot.
I translate languages quite a bit - Spanish, French, Greek, Hebrew, and German. Names I usually leave alone, as well as words that are untranslatable. However, there are scores of words that have standard transliterations in German, Greek, Hebrew, and so forth, particualarly when the names have vastly different characters - like going from Hebrew to Greek [to German] to English. "Jesus" is one of them!:yes:
The wiki article on "Yeshua" should suffice for "rules."
angellous_evangellous said:
I guess I would have to ask why you, being you say you translate allot, would not do so with names, or at least try to stay away from that? Also, are you saying that the rules as applied to the name Yeshua as are found on the link you posted is in fact the same as all other names that are to be translated? Also, since you seem to be one that deems self as being one of those learned individuals as I posted before, I ask if you could walk us all through the process that one would need to follow to go from the Hebrew form of the name Yahshua to the Greek form.