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Yet another school with racism problems

LittlePinky82

Well-Known Member
So there's been yet another University with racism problems. Where the minority are speaking up and saying they're not being treated as you should expect to be on campus with getting an education. Mizzou, Ithaca, and now this school. How many more schools are going to pop up?

What has been going on on these campus over the yrs where now we're having these issues?

I'm definitely thinking we're going to have race relations as a major campaign issue and I hope we do. We as a country need to address this and face up to the past and present of what's going on. At least this president seems to be more understanding and open to their concerns as students on the campus. Hopefully he can learn something from the Mizzou president.

Black students take over VCU's president's office to demand changes



BY LOUIS LLOVIO Richmond Times-Dispatch | Posted 40 minutes ago

About 30 Virginia Commonwealth University student activists took over the school president’s office Thursday morning demanding, among other things, an increase in the number of black professors and more cultural competency training on campus.


The students took over first floor of the office on Franklin Street about 10 a.m.

They read a prepared letter expressing their solidarity with students at the main campus of the University of Missouri and a list of changes they are demanding from VCU officials.

What followed was not a 1960s-style protest rife with tension but an open and frank conversation about the issues black students confront at VCU.

The students talked about feeling like outsiders on campus and alienated at a place to which they turned to improve their future. Several said they were angry and felt abandoned by the university.

Participating in that conversation was Michael Rao, VCU’s president, who came downstairs when he heard the students and sat on an end table listening to them for more than two hours.

Their main concern is a lack of black professors at VCU. They say it’s often difficult for them to deal with educators who don’t understand their cultural concerns or the experience driving their thoughts and world view.

A lack of black professors also means that other students are missing out on a valuable educational point of view.

VCU says 5 percent of its professors are black. Fifteen percent of the student body is black.

Coupled with their classroom concerns is a feeling of being an outsider on campus because there is no effort being made to foster a community for black students, they said.

“You can go a whole four years talking to white people, being taught by white people and not having anything to do with black people,” sophomore Reyna Smith said.

Among the demands are to double the number of black faculty members to 10 percent of the total number of professors by 2017, to have at least one of every three candidates interviewing for a faculty position be black, and to create a position to make sure the policies are being implemented.

The students also demand the creation of a cultural competency course for all students and the hiring of an ombudsman so students have someone who will understand their experiences and concerns.

The students also want to see an increase in funding for cultural organizations and events on campus.

For his part, Rao sympathized with the students and encouraged them to talk about their concerns.

He told them that their concerns are not a complete surprise and that VCU is taking steps to bring more black professors into the university.



Still, he said, it must be acknowledged that black students have a unique perspective and that the university needs to work to bring about fundamental change.

“Students of color can’t take on the burden themselves,” Rao said, adding, “I very much have the same vision for VCU. I think there’s greater capacity to do what we know we need to do for all fellow human beings, and it needs to be a model for the rest of the nation.”


Source- http://m.richmond.com/news/local/ci...70e-99fe-539f-9097-8415205caafd.html?mode=jqm
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Sounds like not that much to complain about actually. I hope people are not afraid to say that if that is how they feel, and resist demands they do not agree with.
 

LittlePinky82

Well-Known Member
Their concerns are there are not enough black people?

The students also demand the creation of a cultural competency course for all students and the hiring of an ombudsman so students have someone who will understand their experiences and concerns.

The students also want to see an increase in funding for cultural organizations and events on campus.


Sounds like not that much to complain about actually. I hope people are not afraid to say that if that is how they feel, and resist demands they do not agree with.

It seems as though it's more peaceful. It helps the president is very open and engaging with the students with their issues. And it sounds like, at least imo, they were already self-aware of the issues and already had plans to help students with things. I don't think we'll be seeing a Missouri issue happening here anyways. The main thing that seemed to cause the Missouri issue is the president not listening really or seeming to care about what the students were saying about racism.

So he seems to be already in the same line of thinking as these students.

There doesn't seem to be any death threats or racist slurs or other issues like that happening here. So that can lead to a peaceful and safe for all ending.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Given the attitude of the president in this case, was there a reason the group didn't just make an appointment to discuss their concerns?
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
The students also demand the creation of a cultural competency course for all students.
Cultural Competency? For all students? What if some students have no interest in going to said course and don't care to be dictated to on how they think? This group has absolutely no right to demand that! Who do they think they are?
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
It seems a pop fad was created at U of Missouri.

I suspect it falls into the category of 'striking whilst the iron is hot'.
I'm fine with that, actually, but would hope that escalation to this action occurs AFTER concerns are raised clearly and simply to the same President who appears quite willing to listen.

Now, perhaps that same President is only willing to listen because this has drawn press attention. But then again...*shrugs*
 

Sees

Dragonslayer
For all we know 2% of those who were considered for professor positions were black and yet 5% of those hired were black. :shrug:

That's very much how it works in many places with many occupations in varying scale.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
The students also demand the creation of a cultural competency course for all students and the hiring of an ombudsman so students have someone who will understand their experiences and concerns.

The students also want to see an increase in funding for cultural organizations and events on campus.




It seems as though it's more peaceful. It helps the president is very open and engaging with the students with their issues. And it sounds like, at least imo, they were already self-aware of the issues and already had plans to help students with things. I don't think we'll be seeing a Missouri issue happening here anyways. The main thing that seemed to cause the Missouri issue is the president not listening really or seeming to care about what the students were saying about racism.

So he seems to be already in the same line of thinking as these students.

There doesn't seem to be any death threats or racist slurs or other issues like that happening here. So that can lead to a peaceful and safe for all ending.
Whilst I agree with funding for cultural events and the like, the course ehhh, not so much. As an elective sure. But much as we'd like the school can't force people not to be racist. They can discipline racist actions (and I mean actual racist actions not that micro aggression crap.) They can try to foster an environment for safety free of racist actions. But that's all they can be reasonably expected to do.
I can sympathise with these kids but at the same time they need to lower their demands a little. The world doesn't care about your experiences, it might care about your achievements though.
Also aren't ombudsmen supposed to be a neutral party to weed out corruption?
I mean aren't counsellors supposed to be there to listen to students concerns or whatever?


Note, I don't condone racist behaviour at all. But this all sounds like first world problems.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Sounds like not that much to complain about actually. I hope people are not afraid to say that if that is how they feel, and resist demands they do not agree with.
I agree. According to the article 5% of the schools professors are black. Not very high, but then there aren't that many black professors around either.

"In 2004 Blacks earned 7.1% of all doctorates awarded to U.S. citizens."
source

I don't know what kind of pay the profs at VCU are getting but I will bet that a school that ranks only 447 in the nation (Forbes listing) isn't paying top dollar.* The point being that all schools have been pressured to have a racially diverse facility, which means that black profs can expect to be courted to some extent, most likely with pay and perks. Pay and perks a school ranking only 447 would be hard pressed to compete with. With these facts in mind I don't think the students have much of a case.

*source

That said, just what the heck is this cultural competency training they're complaining about? I tried looking it up but didn't find much.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I'm fine with that, actually, but would hope that escalation to this action occurs AFTER concerns are raised clearly and simply to the same President who appears quite willing to listen.

Now, perhaps that same President is only willing to listen because this has drawn press attention. But then again...*shrugs*
I think he should listen to all concerns about anything but if he doesn't consider the concerns significant I would hope he has the courage to say so.
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Asian-Americans are being victims to bully fascists on campus who hate them racially for being academically prepared, whites are a target of the false narratives of black racists, free speech is under attack by the left, the administrators not only are not the problem but mostly the instigators of this type of leftist racism and fascism.

The narrative is as phony as Ferguson. These bully fascists are turning centers of learning into military academies of a political agenda that is counter to freedom.
 

LittlePinky82

Well-Known Member
Cultural Competency? For all students? What if some students have no interest in going to said course and don't care to be dictated to on how they think? This group has absolutely no right to demand that! Who do they think they are?

Yeah, that's the thing I don't think can really be enforced. I don't see how they could do it legally. The other issues seem fine and do-able. The president already seems on-board with their changes and he was listening to them.

It seems a pop fad was created at U of Missouri.

How do you know it was? Is there proof of that? How do you know these students haven't had this planned for a while now and it just happened to be now? We don't know how long these students have had these grievances and what got them to do a sit-in at the president's office.

For all we know 2% of those who were considered for professor positions were black and yet 5% of those hired were black. :shrug:

That's very much how it works in many places with many occupations in varying scale.

And I'm not sure how big of a population this town has with non-whites?

Whilst I agree with funding for cultural events and the like, the course ehhh, not so much. As an elective sure. But much as we'd like the school can't force people not to be racist. They can discipline racist actions (and I mean actual racist actions not that micro aggression crap.) They can try to foster an environment for safety free of racist actions. But that's all they can be reasonably expected to do.
I can sympathise with these kids but at the same time they need to lower their demands a little. The world doesn't care about your experiences, it might care about your achievements though.
Also aren't ombudsmen supposed to be a neutral party to weed out corruption?
I mean aren't counsellors supposed to be there to listen to students concerns or whatever?


Note, I don't condone racist behaviour at all. But this all sounds like first world problems.

The world should care about your experiences especially in regards to racism. It honestly shouldn't be tolerated especially when you're trying to get an education and you're being discriminated against for it. Instead, students should be applauded and have the same opportunities as everyone else as reasonably expected.

The issue is the counselors can only understand so much because they're not the same race. And it's true. I as a white woman can't understand my poc counter parts. I don't have the same knowledge or experience. I may have knowledge on the subject but it's not from the same view as someone who is a person of color here in the US in 2015. Does that make sense?

I agree. According to the article 5% of the schools professors are black. Not very high, but then there aren't that many black professors around either.

"In 2004 Blacks earned 7.1% of all doctorates awarded to U.S. citizens."
source

I don't know what kind of pay the profs at VCU are getting but I will bet that a school that ranks only 447 in the nation (Forbes listing) isn't paying top dollar.* The point being that all schools have been pressured to have a racially diverse facility, which means that black profs can expect to be courted to some extent, most likely with pay and perks. Pay and perks a school ranking only 447 would be hard pressed to compete with. With these facts in mind I don't think the students have much of a case.

*source

That said, just what the heck is this cultural competency training they're complaining about? I tried looking it up but didn't find much.

I'm not sure either and I'm not sure of the population in general of that town. I don't think "pressure" is the right word. Why shouldn't you have a racially diverse faculty and campus? And probably? How do you know they are? Is there any evidence of that? Even in your own post you don't know what the pay is like and pointed out their rank from Forbes.

The only case I think they have is for everything but the class. They can offer it but can they force people to go? People skip classes all the time. I've been in classes where you had students who showed up maybe once in a blue moon or just for tests or something.

Asian-Americans are being victims to bully fascists on campus who hate them racially for being academically prepared, whites are a target of the false narratives of black racists, free speech is under attack by the left, the administrators not only are not the problem but mostly the instigators of this type of leftist racism and fascism.

The narrative is as phony as Ferguson. These bully fascists are turning centers of learning into military academies of a political agenda that is counter to freedom.

Whites aren't being targets. Where are you getting this crap? Free speech isn't under attack. People are standing up after being oppressed for too long and told to shut up. They're not doing so anymore. I would expect more of these type of protests honestly speaking. This type of "leftist racism and fascism" is hyberbole. And you do know you can't be a leftist and a fascist right? That literally makes no sense at all. And I love your lack of evidence.

What narrative about Ferguson is false? You need to turn off the Alex Jones or whoever it is you're listening to. You're seriously misinformed.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
It honestly shouldn't be tolerated especially when you're trying to get an education and you're being discriminated against for it.
I don't see that happening in any systemic way in modern America. Random bad behavior by people from all sides will always happen.
 

LittlePinky82

Well-Known Member
That "Big Mike" Brown was an innocent victim of racism and police brutality.
Tom

That's not what people are saying. :rolleyes:

I suggest you read this-

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/us/missouri-ferguson-michael-brown-what-we-know/index.html

I don't see that happening in any systemic way in modern America. Random bad behavior by people from all sides will always happen.

Well maybe you're not aware of how bad racism in America is right now?
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Well maybe you're not aware of how bad racism in America is right now?
I have not heard anyone articulate it well or convincingly. Certainly the group in the OP provided nothing dramatic to justify their takeover of the 'sympathetic' president's office.
 
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SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
The world should care about your experiences especially in regards to racism. It honestly shouldn't be tolerated especially when you're trying to get an education and you're being discriminated against for it. Instead, students should be applauded and have the same opportunities as everyone else as reasonably expected.

Of course no one should have to deal with racism. That would be a perfect world.
Alas this is not the one we live in.
The world owes you nothing. Everyone experiences ****ty things, everyone has disadvantages (unless you're a millionaire/billionaire I suppose. Even then there's bound to be issues.) It's what you do with those experiences that the world should care about. Do you turn your Uni into your personal therapist session or do you tell the haters to bugger off and get on with things? Obviously serious racist actions like bullying, intimidation tactics and hate speech should be dealt with by the school appropriately. And if you feel unsafe obviously there should be some kind of professional to talk to. But again, they can't stop people being racist, they can only quash serious threats.


The issue is the counselors can only understand so much because they're not the same race. And it's true. I as a white woman can't understand my poc counter parts. I don't have the same knowledge or experience. I may have knowledge on the subject but it's not from the same view as someone who is a person of color here in the US in 2015. Does that make sense?

Kind of? I don't know.
A person does not need to be depressed to know how to ask the right questions to a depressed person. A person does not need to be homeless to understand the plight of a homeless person. I come from a family of counsellors and they'd tell you the same thing. The idea of a counsellor is to listen, empathize and ask hard questions. Their job is not to coddle, but to elicit growth. Does that require empathy? Of course. But being ostracized because of something like race is universal. We are a tribal species, we pretty much do that with everyone.
I mean I'm half Indian and I'll tell you I have experienced racism on both sides. But much more so from the Indian side as the whole post colonial thing still affects us. Well it affects language and fosters distrust of "whites" anyway. Plus Indians are really really racist. Like really racist. Not all mind you, of course. But still. There's a few conflicts going on there.
A good quality counsellor need not be half Indian or whatever to understand my plight, because they're trained professionals. They shouldn't have to be half Indian to empathize and understand my struggles.

(Also a few random things. Why is POC a thing? It sounds kind of like a polite version of the word "Coloreds." Not going to lie, it's a little creepy. And is there a US vs UK spelling difference of the word "counsellor?" Because Firefox says it's wrong but that's the way I learnt it. :shrug: Weird.)
 

LittlePinky82

Well-Known Member
I have not heard anyone articulate it well or convincingly. Certainly the group in the OP provided nothing dramatic to justify their takeover of the 'sympathetic' president's office.

It's really bad in a lot of places. Not everywhere, certainly, but it's bad. Especially with cops and how they handle black men. Definitely pay attention to Black Lives Matter. On youtube look up the channel Real News Network. They have been doing a great job at talking about the issues with race in the US right now. They have a lot of video's about it on there from people in the know and actively involved in some manner.

Of course no one should have to deal with racism. That would be a perfect world.
Alas this is not the one we live in.
The world owes you nothing. Everyone experiences ****ty things, everyone has disadvantages (unless you're a millionaire/billionaire I suppose. Even then there's bound to be issues.) It's what you do with those experiences that the world should care about. Do you turn your Uni into your personal therapist session or do you tell the haters to bugger off and get on with things? Obviously serious racist actions like bullying, intimidation tactics and hate speech should be dealt with by the school appropriately. And if you feel unsafe obviously there should be some kind of professional to talk to. But again, they can't stop people being racist, they can only quash serious threats.




Kind of? I don't know.
A person does not need to be depressed to know how to ask the right questions to a depressed person. A person does not need to be homeless to understand the plight of a homeless person. I come from a family of counsellors and they'd tell you the same thing. The idea of a counsellor is to listen, empathize and ask hard questions. Their job is not to coddle, but to elicit growth. Does that require empathy? Of course. But being ostracized because of something like race is universal. We are a tribal species, we pretty much do that with everyone.
I mean I'm half Indian and I'll tell you I have experienced racism on both sides. But much more so from the Indian side as the whole post colonial thing still affects us. Well it affects language and fosters distrust of "whites" anyway. Plus Indians are really really racist. Like really racist. Not all mind you, of course. But still. There's a few conflicts going on there.
A good quality counsellor need not be half Indian or whatever to understand my plight, because they're trained professionals. They shouldn't have to be half Indian to empathize and understand my struggles.

(Also a few random things. Why is POC a thing? It sounds kind of like a polite version of the word "Coloreds." Not going to lie, it's a little creepy. And is there a US vs UK spelling difference of the word "counsellor?" Because Firefox says it's wrong but that's the way I learnt it. :shrug: Weird.)


The world does owe you something. It owes you to TRY to treat people with dignity and respect. If someone is treating you horribly, especially for things you can't control like your race, gender, sexuality, people don't deserve that. It's called humanity. Empathy. Sympathy. Why shouldn't we want a better world?

This isn't about "therapist sessions." Why should students be called the 'n' word for getting an education? Why should they be harassed? Why should they be targets of violence for getting an education and doing like everyone else and trying to better their lives? Is that acceptable behavior? To live in fear for getting an education and trying to live in this world? Maybe you should pay more attention to what the students are saying. They're also trying to fight for better quality education and to lower the cost (now it's free education for University a lot of student protesters seem to be pushing which I'm for since college and medicine are the #1 ways of with people can go into debt here in the US).

And yes you do. If you haven't dealt with depression yourself you can't relate in the same regard. You can be educated on it all day long. These are COUNSELORS. They're supposed to COUNSEL people. How is a white person, especially a white woman who is the most protected class of people in the US, going to relate at all to a poc person going through racism? I might, in a lesser extent, understand sexism as a woman, but not racism. I'm a white woman and am never really going to ever understand it and especially living in the US.

POC- People of Color. If you listen to people talk about the issue who are non-white and white alike talk about general speaking and not one particular group (it includes anyone non-white). I hope that makes sense. It's a way to include everyone and not just say black people, latino, asian etc. But in talking about everyone non-white. I admit I used to feel the same way but as I understood more about the term it made sense and it just is a lazy way of talking about people when you're talking about issues. Instead of saying every group out there who is non-white. I hope that makes sense to you.

Meh I've seen counselor spelled both ways so I wouldn't worry about it.
 
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