jmvizanko
Uber Tool
Well if that's the case, and god also cares what I believe, then he is more evil than the devil ever could be. Somewhere on the level of Barbara Streisand.
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You didn't choose what you believe.
- Thread starter jmvizanko
- Start date
Well if that's the case, and god also cares what I believe, then he is more evil than the devil ever could be. Somewhere on the level of Barbara Streisand.
Midnight Pete
Well-Known Member
Seriously. If you ruminate on the problem of free will vs. destiny too much, you'll have given yourself a lobotomy without the ice-pick. Baked your noodle. Broken your brain. Fried your CPU.
jmvizanko
Uber Tool
What makes you think I've over done it? Other than the fact that everything I say is babbling nutjob speak of course...
I say if you don't choose what you believe then there are a lot of fools out there wasting money on TV commercials trying to sell you there products.
I think you have it backwards. Everyday, people on Madison Avenue are betting billions of dollars that you do not choose what you believe.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
That is exactly the way choices are made by weighing up the arguments. How ever I do not use nor consider miracles as evidence.
Jesus was certainly a Jew. However what he taught and did stand in sharp contrast to, holding to the continued validity of the "OT", not withstanding the verses that seem to contradict that idea.
blackout
Violet.
As products go,
there is often the real version of the product,
and the make believe version of the product.
Some people buy the real version.
Some people buy the make believe version.
Though in the second case
what they have really bought is the real version
and the make believe claims of the advertizing.
Some people continue to believe the make believe advertized claims
even after using the real product,
which amounts to their chosen use of a make believe product.
there is often the real version of the product,
and the make believe version of the product.
Some people buy the real version.
Some people buy the make believe version.
Though in the second case
what they have really bought is the real version
and the make believe claims of the advertizing.
Some people continue to believe the make believe advertized claims
even after using the real product,
which amounts to their chosen use of a make believe product.
Nayana
Member
I was raised in a certain religion, even though i am still within it i have drastically changed my view point on it, opting to abandon my parents views after seeing how biggoted they were and how much they twisted the religion to suit their own outdated and prejudiced views.
This came aftert i was introduced to neo-paganism and wicca. Although there are many things within those two religions i disagree with i have been able to see things with a broader mind and understand my own religion clearing away much of the prejudice and hate that clouded my interpretation for many years.
Neo-paganism helped me understand how religion is not always as it appears and that i should take everything with a pinch of salt, deciding to believe something only after much research. Thats what exploring other religions really taught me, research, research, research, is the key.
Also i was taught alot about Christianity during my school years, often by force but i eventually decided to tag along to Christian youth groups for a while. I went every week for some months, read much of the bible and just decided that i really just could not bring myself to believe in something that combatted with the morals i had established for myself.
This came aftert i was introduced to neo-paganism and wicca. Although there are many things within those two religions i disagree with i have been able to see things with a broader mind and understand my own religion clearing away much of the prejudice and hate that clouded my interpretation for many years.
Neo-paganism helped me understand how religion is not always as it appears and that i should take everything with a pinch of salt, deciding to believe something only after much research. Thats what exploring other religions really taught me, research, research, research, is the key.
Also i was taught alot about Christianity during my school years, often by force but i eventually decided to tag along to Christian youth groups for a while. I went every week for some months, read much of the bible and just decided that i really just could not bring myself to believe in something that combatted with the morals i had established for myself.
blackout
Violet.
My daughter and I often marvel at the way people around us
believe we should live our lives.
They believe we should spend money we don't have,
on things that may or may not suit us.
This is a very common one.
And they are quite serious.
The one that really makes my daughter marvel
is peoples' "beliefs" about college.
How many people do we know,
have racked up THOUSANDS and thousands of dollars
in college debt,
have NEVER seen any pay off,
cannot pay off the debt,
yet continue to insist that college is necessary to a successful future.
WHERE IS THEIR SUCCESS?
And when you point out other people making a good living
doing something they enjoy
who did it on their own
with NO DEGREE,
(and thus no incurred debt)
they poo poo you.
As if you never said it.
As if what you said is not true.
My oldest daughter helps at home.
She helps in ways that actually keep us
from losing our house.
Do you know that some people
actually believe this is BAD?
It flusters us to no end.
So many people believe that everything you do
should fit societies' "model of the day".
They believe it to the point that
if they encounter people who
do life differently
they just cannot compute... or comprehend it.
Then there are the people who believe
that YOUR life is somehow much more negatively different than theirs
when it's not.
It's like they're pointing out their own problems, in you.
They tell you all the things that are wrong with your life,
yet believe that their lives are somehow any better
when you could draw parallels for an hour.
Why do they believe that they are above their own standards of disapproval?
We used to get annoyed by all of this folly,
now we just find it all amusing.
It's nothing personal we realize,
it's just people stuck in their own beliefs/mind sets
to the point that they can not see 3 inches beyond them.
People are conditioned to believe things
in a whole myriad of ways.
believe we should live our lives.
They believe we should spend money we don't have,
on things that may or may not suit us.
This is a very common one.
And they are quite serious.
The one that really makes my daughter marvel
is peoples' "beliefs" about college.
How many people do we know,
have racked up THOUSANDS and thousands of dollars
in college debt,
have NEVER seen any pay off,
cannot pay off the debt,
yet continue to insist that college is necessary to a successful future.
WHERE IS THEIR SUCCESS?
And when you point out other people making a good living
doing something they enjoy
who did it on their own
with NO DEGREE,
(and thus no incurred debt)
they poo poo you.
As if you never said it.
As if what you said is not true.
My oldest daughter helps at home.
She helps in ways that actually keep us
from losing our house.
Do you know that some people
actually believe this is BAD?
It flusters us to no end.
So many people believe that everything you do
should fit societies' "model of the day".
They believe it to the point that
if they encounter people who
do life differently
they just cannot compute... or comprehend it.
Then there are the people who believe
that YOUR life is somehow much more negatively different than theirs
when it's not.
It's like they're pointing out their own problems, in you.
They tell you all the things that are wrong with your life,
yet believe that their lives are somehow any better
when you could draw parallels for an hour.
Why do they believe that they are above their own standards of disapproval?
We used to get annoyed by all of this folly,
now we just find it all amusing.
It's nothing personal we realize,
it's just people stuck in their own beliefs/mind sets
to the point that they can not see 3 inches beyond them.
People are conditioned to believe things
in a whole myriad of ways.
Last edited:
Renji
Well-Known Member
"You didn't choose what you believe."
I simply don't believe in that. Everyone has their own beliefs on things. If what you say is true, then there would be no conflicting ideas in this world. But it's not, for we choose whether to reject or to accept a particular belief.
I simply don't believe in that. Everyone has their own beliefs on things. If what you say is true, then there would be no conflicting ideas in this world. But it's not, for we choose whether to reject or to accept a particular belief.
I don't think you have the final say. I would like to be a Catholic, but I just cannot accept it, not that I am "against it". Sure I could go to church and try, but it would be a lie.
People can convince themselves, but it seems to me we just keep coming back to our natural path.
People can convince themselves, but it seems to me we just keep coming back to our natural path.
HonestJoe
Well-Known Member
So you think you could, if you wanted, just decide that you do believe it?
I think all the conflicts of belief, especially at the personal level, support the idea of people not being able to choose. If someone knows their belief is causing huge conflict and hurt to many people, especially people they love, why wouldnt they choose to change it if they could?
Renji
Well-Known Member
Yes.
You're thinking it the other way around. The fact that you are here, questioning me is good enough to show that we have the ability to choose whether to believe on a specific issue or not. It's either you disagree with me or you're just asking.
Let me guess...... Because they choose not to alter their decisions/beliefs/actions...
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jmvizanko
Uber Tool
Even though they may have made a choice to study different religions, could they really choose which one ended up most appealing or seemingly true?
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
I did. To the best of my knowledge and abilities anyway.
I studied the religious scriptures, and I found the ones that "spoke" to me most of all.
jtartar
Well-Known Member
jmvizanko,
There is only ONE true God, so if you reject that one you also reject life.
You are accurrate when you say that most people do not choose their religion. The people born to parents of a particular religion usually claim to be of that religion.
You can claim to be of any religion and you are of that one, except true Christianity. To be a Christian you have to prove you are a Christian, and continue to prove it, 2Cor 13:5, Heb 2:1,3:12, 1Tim 1:18,19, Col 1:23, Matt 24:11-13.
Just claiming to be a Christian does not make a person a Christian, Titus 1:16, Matt 7:21-23
A Christian must be honest in all things, Heb 13:18. A Christian must be baptized in the Name of the Father, the son and the Holy Spirit, Matt 28:19,20. The fact is baptism is one thing that is saving everyone, 1Pet 3:18-21, Rom 10:9,10.
The reason that most people accept the religion of their parents is: they do not obey the commands of the Bible. If anyone wants to be acceptable to God he must PROVE to HIMSELF the good and the ACCEPTABLE and the perfect will of God, Rom 12:2.
The Bible says that we must MAKE SURE of all things and to hold onto what is fine, 1Thess 6:21, Phil 1:9-11, Col 1:9,10.
The Bible tells us that we should check out what we are taught, Acts 17:11. The things taught at Acts is from Paul, an apostle, so we should be even more attentive to what is taught today, Acts 20:29,30. Paul mentioned that after the death of the apostles the real falling away from true Christianity would begin, 2Thes 2:6-8.
Now, allow me to make a case for the God that inspired the Bible to be written, as an open letter to all mankind, 2Tim 3:16,17, 2Pet 1:20,21, 1Thes 2:13. This is the only true God, John 17:3. This God is the Almighty Creator of the Heavens and the earth and all that is in them, Rev 4:11. He is the source of all life, Ps 36:9.
One of the most important things that Jehovah, the God of the Bible, says, is: He is going to destroy all other gods, because they are really nonexistent, Jere 10:10,11,14,15, Ps 115:1-8.
No other god even pretends to tell the reason we are in the sorry condition we are in today, Rom 5:12, and no other god tells about the paradise that God promises for those who love Him, Ps 145:16, Rev 21:3-5, Luke 23:43.
Belief in any other god is totally hopeless, with no future, 2Thes 1:6-9.
HonestJoe
Well-Known Member
You're really saying that you think you could simply choose to believe that it isn't possible to choose what you believe? Just consider that for a moment.
There is a difference between being convinced, presented with new information or a different way of considering it, and simply choosing to believe differently based on the same information.
Belief is a function of the information we have available to and the manner in which our brain processes that information. We can influence both but we can't predetermine the conclusion.
We're not talking decisions or actions, only beliefs.
jmvizanko
Uber Tool
You could say we choose our skin color because there are different races too, but that doesn't establish an argument. If anything, that there are different religious geographic regions in the world is evidence of at least a component of belief that is certainly not a choice. Because if we all sat down and chose what we believe, shouldn't we see a uniform spread of beliefs everywhere, considering that most people know at least vaguely about the other religions of the world? Most people just inherit their religion, and even people that study and choose one probably go into the process with at least some arbitrarily acquired biases.
ninerbuff
godless wonder
Lol, you mean like TV evangelists? What better way to sell a "product" and the consumer receive absolutely nothing material in return.I say if you don't choose what you believe then there are a lot of fools out there wasting money on TV commercials trying to sell you there products.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
Right there with ya.