You don't have a monopoly on truth.

[TransmutingSoul]

I don’t know of three anointed messengers since Jesus Christ, since according to the biblical scriptures He was the complete and final revelation of God, which both the OT and NT attest to.
Sure, we all have a level of self-deception, therefore I think the need of guidance from the Holy Spirit, repentance, and transformation in Christ.

That may be a personal interpretation, as that interpretation has no Authority given for the Interpretation, so that could be the essence of your statement of being a self imposed "self-deception and delusion".

Regards Tony

 

[Jimmy]

Okay, I see. I don’t think finite humans are capable of understanding such mysteries accurately without the information being revealed by the Creator.

All wisdom is revealed by the creator directly to one’s mind, not from a book imo. The creator wouldn’t be dumb enough to reveal the truth in a book.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Same here.

And that's the thing: what do you make of the fact that we can both say this?

Everything I've ever seen or otherwise experienced is entirely consistent with no gods existing. I meet plenty of theists who say the opposite: that everything they experience is entirely consistent with God being real and behind it all.

We're experiencing basically the same things, so how can this be?

The only way I've been able to reconcile this doesn't work out in the theists' favour.

 

[InChrist]

All wisdom is revealed by the creator directly to one’s mind, not from a book imo. The creator wouldn’t be dumb enough to reveal the truth in a book.

I disagree. People assuming they receive accurate information directly to their minds has only led to a vast array of confusion and conflicting ideas. According to the Bible, God the Creator is not a God of confusion.
Humans alone have been endowed with the unique ability of language and to understand the written word. God’s revelation through this written language makes sense to me. As well, the biblical scriptures has endured the test of time and survived endless attempts to destroy or discredit them.

 

[Jimmy]

I disagree. People assuming they receive accurate information directly to their minds has only led to a vast array of confusion and conflicting ideas. According to the Bible, God the Creator is not a God of confusion.
Humans alone have been endowed with the unique ability of language and to understand the written word. God’s revelation through this written language makes sense to me. As well, the biblical scriptures has endured the test of time and survived endless attempts to destroy or discredit them.

Like I said god wouldn’t be stupid enough to put truths like how we got here and where we’re going in a book. He’s done this for our own protection. The best place where He eloquently eludes to these truths are in the Bible though.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Like I said god wouldn’t be stupid enough to put truths like how we got here and where we’re going in a book. He’s done this for our own protection. The best place where He eloquently eludes to these truths are in the Bible though.

There are more Books God have given, other than the Bible. One is limiting the availability ot sources of Truth.

Regards Tony

 

[Jimmy]

There are more Books God have given, other than the Bible. One is limiting the availability ot sources of Truth.

Regards Tony

I know about all the rest. I think the Bible is the best among them.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I know about all the rest. I think the Bible is the best among them.

I would suggest that is beacuse you may not read of what is contained in other Books, or you would have not offered this;

"Like I said God wouldn’t be stupid enough to put truths like how we got here and where we’re going in a book."

This is the essence of what was offered by @InChrist It can be seen as "self imposed "self-deception".

Regards Tony

 

[InChrist]

There are more Books God have given, other than the Bible. One is limiting the availability ot sources of Truth.

Regards Tony

I think the truth limits itself by verifying that the biblical scriptures are accurate through prophetic fulfillment. There are no other books…the Quran, Hindu Vedas, the saying of Buddha, or other scared writings that offer any verifiable date of origin or any documented prophetic fulfillment centuries later to demonstrate accuracy and trustworthiness .

 

[Trailblazer]

No one denies plain simple realities and truths.

Christians do, when they expect Jesus to return.
(John 14:19, John 16:10, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think the truth limits itself by verifying that the biblical scriptures are accurate through prophetic fulfillment.

Personally, I've never seen anything that would reasonably count as "prophetic fulfillment" of anything in the Bible.

There are no other books…the Quran, Hindu Vedas, the saying of Buddha, or other scared writings that offer any verifiable date of origin or any documented prophetic fulfillment centuries later to demonstrate accuracy and trustworthiness .

What use would "prophetic fulfillment" - if it were to actually occur - be in establishing that a book is trustworthy?

Edit: I mean, what's the logical leap from "this one statement in this book is true (and would have been beyond a human author's ability to predict correctly, somehow)" to "therefore, there cannot be any false statements in this book"?

 

[Trailblazer]

I think the truth limits itself by verifying that the biblical scriptures are accurate through prophetic fulfillment. There are no other books…the Quran, Hindu Vedas, the saying of Buddha, or other scared writings that offer any verifiable date of origin or any documented prophetic fulfillment centuries later to demonstrate accuracy and trustworthiness .

I beg to differ with you. The Writings of Baha'u'llah have a verifiable date of origin and the history of the Baha'i Faith offers a documented prophetic fulfillment of the biblical scriptures that refer to the return of Christ.

Just a few of the many prophecies and how they were fulfilled by Baha'u'llah are depicted in the following 10 minute video.

 

[an anarchist]

And …

Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32

Again, you are using the Bible as a way to claim you have a monopoly to truth. You are claiming the Bible has a monopoly on truth, right?

 

[Trailblazer]

Personally, I've never seen anything that would reasonably count as "prophetic fulfillment" of anything in the Bible.

Prophetic fulfillment would be anything that actually happened as the prophecies say it will happen.

What use would "prophetic fulfillment" - if it were to actually occur - be in establishing that a book is trustworthy?

If a prophecy given by a prophet in the Bible was actually fulfilled I think that would indicate that the Bible is trustworthy, at least as far as prophecies are concerned.

 

[Trailblazer]

And that's the thing: what do you make of the fact that we can both say this?

We can both say this because we are separate people with different life experiences so we have different ways of thinking.

Everything I've ever seen or otherwise experienced is entirely consistent with no gods existing. I meet plenty of theists who say the opposite: that everything they experience is entirely consistent with God being real and behind it all.

We're experiencing basically the same things, so how can this be?

We're experiencing basically the same things but we view them differently.
Because we are separate people with different life experiences we view the evidence for God differently.

The only way I've been able to reconcile this doesn't work out in the theists' favour.

Whether God exists or not is irreconcilable since God can never be proven to exist.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I think the truth limits itself by verifying that the biblical scriptures are accurate through prophetic fulfillment. There are no other books…the Quran, Hindu Vedas, the saying of Buddha, or other scared writings that offer any verifiable date of origin or any documented prophetic fulfillment centuries later to demonstrate accuracy and trustworthiness .

That is incorrect and can be shown to be incorrect.

You are limiting available trustworthy and truthful evidence.

Regards Tony

 

[InChrist]

Personally, I've never seen anything that would reasonably count as "prophetic fulfillment" of anything in the Bible.



What use would "prophetic fulfillment" - if it were to actually occur - be in establishing that a book is trustworthy?

Edit: I mean, what's the logical leap from "this one statement in this book is true (and would have been beyond a human author's ability to predict correctly, somehow)" to "therefore, there cannot be any false statements in this book"?

If the biblical book(s) are prophetically accurate showing that God alone knows the future, then I see no reason to doubt the accuracy of any other information this God would choose to include.
The Bible is approximately 28 % prophecy, mostly on the themes of Israel and the Messiah. These prophecies are so numerous and stated by so many different biblical prophets who had no contact with one another, yet are in perfect agreement. Prophecies concerning the life, death and resurrection of the Messiah, fulfilled in Jesus of Nazareth, all recorded centuries before crucifixion was practiced cannot be explained as coincidence and I believe prove the validity of the Bible .

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

We can both say this because we are separate people with different life experiences so we have different ways of thinking.

Can you think of anything besides God that this is true for?

We're experiencing basically the same things but we view them differently.
Because we are separate people with different life experiences we view the evidence for God differently.

But here's the thing: in practically every other context, if two people are convinced of diametrically opposed positions, one of them will quickly have their position corrected when it conflicts with reality.

This suggests to me that the existence or non-existence of God has practically nothing to do with the reality we experience. IOW, God is utterly irrelevant.

... and it seems like you agree, since you've expressed the same idea yourself in somewhat different words:

Whether God exists or not is irreconcilable since God can never be proven to exist.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If the biblical book(s) are prophetically accurate showing that God alone knows the future,

Please step through your thinking there. How could someone get from "the prophecy in this book is correct" to "therefore God alone knows the future."

then I see no reason to doubt the accuracy of any other information this God would choose to include.

... because it's impossible for a book with at least one correct thing in it to contain any incorrect things as long as the correct thing is impressive enough?

The Bible is approximately 28 % prophecy, mostly on the themes of Israel and the Messiah. These prophecies are so numerous and stated by so many different biblical prophets who had no contact with one another, yet are in perfect agreement. Prophecies concerning the life, death and resurrection of the Messiah, fulfilled in Jesus of Nazareth, all recorded centuries before crucifixion was practiced cannot be explained as coincidence and I believe prove the validity of the Bible .

But since - AFAICT - none of the Bible's prophecies have been shown to be fulfilled, all of that's kind of useless, isn't it?

And considering that the Bible has been compiled over time by a community with continuity, incorporating or rejecting individual books based on whether they fit their doctrinal views, I don't find any internal consistency between books of the Bible to be surprising at all.

 

[Trailblazer]

Can you think of anything besides God that this is true for?

This applies to pretty much everything. Do you know any two people who think exactly alike?

But here's the thing: in practically every other context, if two people are convinced of diametrically opposed positions, one of them will quickly have their position corrected when it conflicts with reality.

That begs the question is what reality is.

This suggests to me that the existence or non-existence of God has practically nothing to do with the reality we experience. IOW, God is utterly irrelevant.

If you are referring to the physical reality you would be right, but believers believe there is also a spiritual reality and God is not irrelevant to spiritual reality.

... and it seems like you agree, since you've expressed the same idea yourself in somewhat different words:

I agree that whether God exists or not is irreconcilable since God can never be proven to exist, but that does not mean God is irrelevant.
God does not need to be proven to exist in order to be relevant.