You get an insight into the hate transgender people face when...

[Kapalika]

... when I'm genuinely relieved that this man got convicted:

Ex-Navy sailor gets 40 years for killing transgender woman

(article dated 21st of this month)

A lot of juries let off people in this situation and have in the past, which is horrible. However the fact that he got convicted shows me that we are finally making progress to where the general public no longer thinks it's okay to just straight up murder us!

This is also why I disclose before relationships. I'd rather be yelled slurs at then be yelled slurs at and stabbed over 100 times.

I do also find it interesting that he thought nothing of her throughout all of it and only when he learned was it suddenly "not okay". To think if she kept wits about her and didn't get in that situation he wouldn't of been any wiser and not dead. But at the same time, I could see just getting carried away having a guy into you and then it occurs to you maybe he should know before going further. But I also don't know how it didn't come up when they were chatting online. It's all rather unfortunate but it does bring to light some assumptions we have about trans people in general, that even if their body is indistinguishable from their gender identity they are still "not really" a woman, a man, ect.

Also, no transphobia will be tolerated, and I will not hesitate to report it.

 

[sun rise]

We have at least one (other) person on RF who is in transition.

 

[Kapalika]

We have at least one (other) person on RF who is in transition.

We got at least 4 or 5 trans people here me included, some in transition some I don't know if they transitioned or not. Some might be integrated as their gender now and some might not be able to start the process. Not really my business if they don't want to talk about it..

 

[LuisDantas]

Transgenderism is not really all that uncommon, nor would true rarity make the mistreatment more excusable anyway. We all must learn to treat them as the fully entitled people that they have never ceased being, unconfortable as it may be for those lacking the habit.

I am happy to see that the prejudice is no longer enough to stop a conviction. And I agree with the OP in that it would be better to be open upfront about the matter. At the very least, it would probably be safer,

 

[Kapalika]

Transgenderism is not really all that uncommon, nor would true rarity make the mistreatment more excusable anyway. We all must learn to treat them as the fully entitled people that they have never ceased being, unconfortable as it may be for those lacking the habit.

I am happy to see that the prejudice is no longer enough to stop a conviction. And I agree with the OP in that it would be better to be open upfront about the matter. At the very least, it would probably be safer,

When it comes to being transgender and dating I think safety is #1. Screw if people are total asses I'm not going to put myself in a dangerous spot if I don't have to, although I can sympathize with someone in her position, and I can see the reasoning of somehow telling them later as them being more willing to accept you then as they see you are no different than a "real" woman as nothing was ever suspected before.

But again safety is #1 in my mind. Better emotionally hurt or have heartbreak than dead.

Also I'm not sure I would call it transgenderism, sounds too weird and an ism

 

[LuisDantas]

I did not mean anything by that, @Kapalika .

 

[Sha'irullah]

Not trying to make light of anyone's death but this is not the norm that transgenders face. No such thing exists as a transgender assassination club. I understand the issues transgenders face but do not stretch the truth to make it appear worse than what it is.

 

[LuisDantas]

No one suggested an organized effort. But I just don't know what you mean by this not being typical. Far as I can tell, it is unfortunately fairly typical.

 

[Sha'irullah]

No one suggested an organized effort. But I just don't know what you mean by this not being typical. Far as I can tell, it is unfortunately fairly typical.

Transgender people getting killed is typical? Sorry but intellectually and professionally I have to call poppycock on this statement. I have issues finding cases of transgender getting murdered yet alone the fact the motifs remain dubious as far as confirmed hate crimes. The amount of unrelated black women getting shot by random gang members is exceedingly higher than the rate of transgenders getting murdered on the basis of their sex

 

[Kapalika]

I did not mean anything by that, @Kapalika .

I didn't think you did, just sometimes that word is used to imply it's an ideology with transphobic people, kind of like "the gay agenda" nonsense.

Not trying to make light of anyone's death but this is not the norm that transgenders face. No such thing exists as a transgender assassination club. I understand the issues transgenders face but do not stretch the truth to make it appear worse than what it is.

If you actually read the article you would of noted that this happened privately.

It is the norm for people to get away with murdering transgender people after having sex with them and learning they are trans, to the point the defense has been called the "trans panic defense".

Gay panic defense - Wikipedia

Anyone that follows transgender issues and looks into all the murders knows that people usually get away with this defense, historically speaking.

 

[LuisDantas]

Transgender people getting killed is typical? Sorry but intellectually and professionally I have to call poppycock on this statement. I have issues finding cases of transgender getting murdered yet alone the fact the motifs remain dubious as far as confirmed hate crimes. The amount of unrelated black women getting shot by random gang members is exceedingly higher than the rate of transgenders getting murdered on the basis of their sex

Way to be certain, uh?

I am willing to bet that the frequency of transgenders is decisive for those numbers you claim, anyway.

 

[Sha'irullah]

If you actually read the article you would of noted that this happened privately.

It is the norm for people to get away with murdering transgender people after having sex with them and learning they are trans, to the point the defense has been called the "trans panic defense".

Gay panic defense - Wikipedia

Anyone that follows transgender issues and looks into all the murders knows that people usually get away with this defense, historically speaking.

I did read the article and it changes nothing.

I also cannot believe that somebody got away with murdering a person for being transgender and used such a defense. This defense has rarely if ever worked in court as far as my recollection although it would not surprised me if it was usable earlier in history.

The point still stands though that murdering transexuals is not a norm. Also the trans panic defense is not even remotely successful in court. Please study your cases and be aware of the statistics

 

[Kapalika]

Transgender people getting killed is typical? Sorry but intellectually and professionally I have to call poppycock on this statement. I have issues finding cases of transgender getting murdered yet alone the fact the motifs remain dubious as far as confirmed hate crimes. The amount of unrelated black women getting shot by random gang members is exceedingly higher than the rate of transgenders getting murdered on the basis of their sex

Transgender women particularly ones of color are the most murdered minority in the United States when you look at the numbers proportionally.

They are also the most common target for hate crime murders.

Here's an outdated, partial list for 2017:

Violence Against the Transgender Community in 2017 | Human Rights Campaign

And the stats:
L.G.B.T. People Are More Likely to Be Targets of Hate Crimes Than Any Other Minority Group

"A look at four years of homicides of L.G.B.T. people catalogued by the National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs shows that the vast majority of those who were killed were black or Hispanic transgender people."

The article also points out that many police don't report the murders to the feds even when reported:

"A recent report by the Bureau of Justice Statistics found that most crimes are not reported to the police, and those that are reported are frequently not classified as hate crimes by local jurisdictions.

A recent investigation by The Associated Press found that thousands of city police and county sheriff’s departments had not filed a single hate crime report to the F.B.I. between 2009 and 2014.

Larger cities or cities with a more visible L.G.B.T. community are more likely to have procedures and training in place to detect and reduce hate crimes.

For example, in 2014 only one hate crime was reported for the entire state of Mississippi. In Connecticut, where L.G.B.T. people are arguably more visible and influential, 23 hate crimes based on sexual orientation were reported, "

 

[Kapalika]

I did read the article and it changes nothing.

I also cannot believe that somebody got away with murdering a person for being transgender and used such a defense. This defense has rarely if ever worked in court as far as my recollection although it would not surprised me if it was usable earlier in history.

The point still stands though that murdering transexuals is not a norm. Also the trans panic defense is not even remotely successful in court. Please study your cases and be aware of the statistics

Read my post, #13 that I Just put up at almost the exact same moment of this post.

Then come back to me.

Also, you even admitted you couldn't find the cases. The article also lays out why LGBT people are most often the target of hate crimes in America.

 

[Kapalika]

I also cannot believe that somebody got away with murdering a person for being transgender and used such a defense. This defense has rarely if ever worked in court as far as my recollection although it would not surprised me if it was usable earlier in history.

Marine Who Allegedly Killed Trans Woman Claims He Was Defending His Honor

"These laughable excuses are sometimes well-received by juries. In the United States, the trans panic defense helped to mitigate the punishment of a high-schooler who shot a trans classmate, execution-style, in front of his entire class. It also reduced the sentence of a man who bludgeoned a trans woman to death with a fire extinguisher. The gay panic defense has a similarly illustrious history: Most notably, it was successfully deployed in a case where a man decapitated, dismembered, and immolated an openly gay man. (The police investigator on the case said that “people who live this lifestyle need to be aware that this will happen.”) "

Does this work for you? (wouldn't open right for me but my internet is REALLY slow/bad at the moment) http://lgbtbar.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Gay-and-Trans-Panic-Defenses-Resolution.pdf

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...-is-still-a-legal-murder-defense-in-48-states

Please study your cases and be aware of the statistics

It's so easy for you to act like this is just some abstract thing when you've never had to face the reality of fearing for your life because of your gender (I don't mean this rhetorically, this happened to me at least once when literally cornered details too long to get into here).

Or have every older trans person who grew up in the worst of days tell you about the countless beatings, broken bones, murders and suicides they saw.

Right now, my town is battling over updating our anti discrimination policy to cover veterans, gender identity, sexual orientation and genetic information and every town hall meeting so far has had a large percentage calling us "subhuman", "demonic", "deviants" "rapists" "sexual predators" "f*****' "pedophiles' a bunch of other slurs I don't wanna say and countless other things. It's clear that we are not considered even human to many of these people. Many wouldn't mind if some of us died and there are plenty in their "camp" who have actively called for killing LGBT people.

So ya, I kinda think given the history, what i see around me, what other trans people have seen around them, plus all that data the New York Times lays out in very good detail pulling from official sources... I think it speaks volumes. I am aware of "my cases" and "the statistics".

We ****ing live with them.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Transgender women particularly ones of color are the most murdered minority in the United States when you look at the numbers proportionally.

They are also the most common target for hate crime murders.

Here's an outdated, partial list for 2017:

Violence Against the Transgender Community in 2017 | Human Rights Campaign

And the stats:
L.G.B.T. People Are More Likely to Be Targets of Hate Crimes Than Any Other Minority Group

"A look at four years of homicides of L.G.B.T. people catalogued by the National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs shows that the vast majority of those who were killed were black or Hispanic transgender people."

The article also points out that many police don't report the murders to the feds even when reported:

"A recent report by the Bureau of Justice Statistics found that most crimes are not reported to the police, and those that are reported are frequently not classified as hate crimes by local jurisdictions.

A recent investigation by The Associated Press found that thousands of city police and county sheriff’s departments had not filed a single hate crime report to the F.B.I. between 2009 and 2014.

Larger cities or cities with a more visible L.G.B.T. community are more likely to have procedures and training in place to detect and reduce hate crimes.

For example, in 2014 only one hate crime was reported for the entire state of Mississippi. In Connecticut, where L.G.B.T. people are arguably more visible and influential, 23 hate crimes based on sexual orientation were reported, "

Let's see,

• Statistics are reported by unreliable news group (NY Times).
• Takes no mention of the geography of stats.
• Hate crimes is not relevant in many cultures hence no distinguishment.
• Also hatred toward LGBT is relative to cultures.

So essentially you sent me a flop article with dubious statistics that mostly is relevant for neurologically challenged people.

Break it down likes this. from the HRC source it says
"Sadly, 2017 has already seen at least 15 transgender people fatally shot or killed by other violent means. "

Then in the NYTimes source it reports as of 2012-2015 that 88 LGBT people were murdered yet according to CNN in Chicago there are 762 murders which as we all know are mostly gang related.

You mean to tell me that somehow unaccounted 88 murders account for a majority in hate crime related murder that surpass 762?

88 according to you is a bigger number than 762? Keep in mind that this is CHICAGO ALONE!

Just let me say this but I declare FAKE NEWS

 

[SabahTheLoner]

Transgender people are beautiful. It's pretty scary that there are people out there that would kill someone who's trans just for that identity. It's scary right now for every queer person (sexual orientation or gender identity wise) because there's so many hate crimes.

I sort of wonder why she didn't tell him about her identity until after they hooked up, though. That seems a bit more risky for many reasons than just saying it off the bat or at least before things get that serious.

 

[Kapalika]

Let's see,

• Statistics are reported by unreliable news group (NY Times).
• Takes no mention of the geography of stats.
• Hate crimes is not relevant in many cultures hence no distinguishment.
• Also hatred toward LGBT is relative to cultures.

So essentially you sent me a flop article with dubious statistics that mostly is relevant for neurologically challenged people.

Break it down likes this. from the HRC source it says
"Sadly, 2017 has already seen at least 15 transgender people fatally shot or killed by other violent means. "

Then in the NYTimes source it reports as of 2012-2015 that 88 LGBT people were murdered yet according to CNN in Chicago there are 762 murders which as we all know are mostly gang related.

You mean to tell me that somehow unaccounted 88 murders account for a majority in hate crime related murder that surpass 762?

88 according to you is a bigger number than 762? Keep in mind that this is CHICAGO ALONE!

Just let me say this but I declare FAKE NEWS

You are lying. Or at least didn't look at the article at all. Both are bad.

The NY times took the statistics from the FBI and other reputable official sources.

Are you saying the FBI is "fake news"?

And yes, ****ing 88 is a larger number proportionally. If there are 100,000 trans people in America and 88 get killed, and there are millions of gang members the RATE AND CHANCE of being killed for being trans is astronomically higher.

But hey let's ignore that gang violence is money and territory motivated not hate/bigotry motivated!

 

[Jesster]

We have at least one (other) person on RF who is in transition.

There's probably quite a few who just haven't mentioned it here yet. Me, for instance.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Transgender people getting killed is typical? Sorry but intellectually and professionally I have to call poppycock on this statement. I have issues finding cases of transgender getting murdered yet alone the fact the motifs remain dubious as far as confirmed hate crimes. The amount of unrelated black women getting shot by random gang members is exceedingly higher than the rate of transgenders getting murdered on the basis of their sex

LGBTQ history and PRIDE has started mainly because a lot of transgender and feminine gay men had been beaten, arrested, and killed for sexual relations and predicted as sick (having a homosxual-illness) because of their attractions and their outward personality and mannerisms.

England had been murdering people left and right for being transgender. Sodomy laws were adopted by the states and this didn't just include sexual behaviors but people who "looked" transgender, gay, lesbian, and so forth. A lot of people today honestly don't know the difference between gender identity and sex.

Personal and family experience, yes, these things are typical. It depends on where you live, what state, and what country. I can get killed or arrested in Georgia but in DC and New York, nowadays, they are starting to careless.

There's a whole history of violence based on a person's personal experience rather than what's dotted in case statistics.