You get an insight into the hate transgender people face when...

[Kapalika]

HE STILL GOT SENTENCED! He did not get away and this changes nothing still. I would expect the sentence to be lessened but it is still murder regardless and he still got thrown into the slammer.

Oh I'm sorry I didn't know something like 2 or 5 years is all our lives are worth to you. The rest of your post is just transphobic like comparing us to people lying about having AIDs (something that can kill you!) and the slur you used. No one said anything about a genocide but you, all I pointed out was the high murder rates

 

[Sha'irullah]

You are lying. Or at least didn't look at the article at all. Both are equally despicable.

The NY times took the statistics from the FBI and other reputable official sources.

Are you saying the FBI is "fake news"?

Never said the statistics were wrong but the assertion of the article.

Also yes the FBI is fake news. I recall years ago calling them the Fluffy Bunny Institute on this very forum years ago.

And yes, ****ing 88 is a larger number proportionally. If there are 100,000 trans people in America and 88 get killed, and there are millions of gang members the RATE AND CHANCE of being killed for being trans is astronomically higher.

But hey let's ignore that gang violence is money and territory motivated not hate/bigotry motivated!

And? You still have to separate the causality of it being a hate crime and the fact that percentage does not mean causation.


Transexuals are killed. This is sad and a regrettable part of society but it does not call for a declaration of genocide. The same goes for blacks like myself who are on average and by number the most murderous group in America and the low number of whites. Transexuals are no different in that they are very opportunistic for perpetrators in terms of hate crimes and they are very easily targeted by those who wish to do harm. Having low numbers only means it is more easier to spike the percentage up by merely anything being done.

If I have a small amount of red people and a large amount of blue people and each group is assaulted by an equal number of assailants then it is only natural that the percentage of the red people would be higher than the blue people. This means nothing but statistical percentages and averages.

 

[Sha'irullah]

LGBTQ history and PRIDE has started mainly because a lot of transgender and feminine gay men had been beaten, arrested, and killed for sexual relations and predicted as sick (having a homosxual-illness) because of their attractions and their outward personality and mannerisms.

England had been murdering people left and right for being transgender. Sodomy laws were adopted by the states and this didn't just include sexual behaviors but people who "looked" transgender, gay, lesbian, and so forth. A lot of people today honestly don't know the difference between gender identity and sex.

Personal and family experience, yes, these things are typical. It depends on where you live, what state, and what country. I can get killed or arrested in Georgia but in DC and New York, nowadays, they are starting to careless.

There's a whole history of violence based on a person's personal experience rather than what's dotted in case statistics.

I am aware of this but as I said before my only issue is with people overstating their case. I would not call transgenders the most targeted group in society considering the numbers.

My only debate is the numbers and statistics that are being used to push incorrect language. Everything else said by you and @Kapalika I agree with. @Kapalika just seems to think I am somehow asserting there is literally no such thing as LGBT hate crimes or murders.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I am aware of this but as I said before my only issue is with people overstating their case. I would not call transgenders the most targeted group in society considering the numbers.

My only debate is the numbers and statistics that are being used to push incorrect language. Everything else said by you and @Kapalika I agree with. @Kapalika just seems to think I am somehow asserting there is literally no such thing as LGBT hate crimes or murders.

I would assume the most target group would be locally not as a whole. For example, you can say the most targeted group here for crime in my local area is unfortunately stereotyped to hispanics and homeless people. While, as a whole, of course, that isn't the case. A lot of these crimes are isolated these days. Though, it does depend on where the person is in their given state or country. It may be a generalized statement but not necessarily false.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Oh I'm sorry I didn't know something like 2 or 5 years is all our lives are worth to you.

Never said that.

The rest of your post is just transphobic like comparing us to people lying about having AIDs (something that can kill you!) and the slur you used.

I never said that either.

I merely stated that to people who are heterosexual having sex with somebody with a penis can result in such an attitude. I personally enjoy the hermaphroditic nature of transexuals and the androgynous appeal to certain ones but this does not mean that all people will feel the same.

What you have essentially done is accuse heterosexual of being hateful by merely being heterosexuals. Many heterosexuals will not feel that a trans-woman is a real woman and will merely equate it with a male.

No one said anything about a genocide but you, all I pointed out was the high murder rates

And all I pointed out was the possibility of strong language to be used falsely to exaggerate a situation. That is merely it

 

[Kapalika]

This is why we need that LGBT DIR we voted on like a year ago. I don't want this kind of crap posted on my topics. You think the FBI is "fake news"? If anything, no it's been proven, that those numbers are WAY under since so many police departments never report to the FBI.

This topic isn't a debate and it's not in a debate section. It was meant as a discussion about the changes in typical sentencing for transgender hate crime murder. This debate crap needs to end now.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I would assume the most target group would be locally not as a whole. For example, you can say the most targeted group here for crime in my local area is unfortunately stereotyped to hispanics and homeless people. While, as a whole, of course, that isn't the case. A lot of these crimes are isolated these days. Though, it does depend on where the person is in their given state or country. It may be a generalized statement but not necessarily false.

I alluded to this earlier when I brought up geography and hate crimes. I was pretty much referencing Eastern Europe and the Islamic world obviously . Everybody always likes using these examples for bigotry because they are a ripe hot mess when it comes to human rights.

 

[Sha'irullah]

This is why we need that LGBT DIR we voted on like a year ago. I don't want this kind of crap posted on my topics. You think the FBI is "fake news"? If anything, no it's been proven, that those numbers are WAY under since so many police departments never report to the FBI.

OK? I have a penchant for point out the incompetence of the FBI and CIA and their racist and manipulative attitudes. Does not mean I hate them as a whole, quite the opposite. I still rip on the FBI a lot though.

This topic isn't a debate and it's not in a debate section. It was meant as a discussion about the changes in typical sentencing for transgender hate crime murder. This debate crap needs to end now.

All I did was warn against strong language and that got you upset? Really. You spouted irrelevant posts and avoided my topic the whole time to exaggerate a situation.

You need to relax and stop making nonexistent enemies.

 

[LuisDantas]

@Sha'irullah , you come across as badly misinformed.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I alluded to this earlier when I brought up geography and hate crimes. I was pretty much referencing Eastern Europe and the Islamic world obviously . Everybody always likes using these examples for bigotry because they are a ripe hot mess when it comes to human rights.

Eh. I don't know if you're in the states, but a lot of us Americans like to compare our laws and morals to those outside the country. I was never into politics until I started taking this US history class now. We just finished the vietnam war, and all the, cough, mess going on in US, Japan, Germany (oh gosh, what a mess with Germany), and so forth. It would be nice to focus on our own country for a change.

I do agree with @Kapalika. LGBTQ should have their own DIR instead of a room tucked away in the corner. I know it's a sensitive topic. I get flared up because if I know one LGBTQ is discriminated or killed, I feel the same way. I never read the article in the OP because that.

 

[Kapalika]

There's no saving this thread. I thought up until the response to the NY times article and my countless other sources there was a chance for an actual discussion where people might learn something. I should of disengaged right then and there.

We really need that LGBT section we voted on last year or something like it that new people can actually use or know exists. Last time I posted a topic in the "secret" forum there only 1 person ever even noticed it or responded.

I only bother to say anything as this thread is moving so fast my post won't bump it any.

 

[Sha'irullah]

@Sha'irullah , you come across as badly misinformed.

In what regard? I make a simple statement that did not even have be analyzed through research. Not much to look into to

 

[Sha'irullah]

There's no saving this thread. I thought up until the response to the NY times article and my countless other sources there was a chance for an actual discussion where people might learn something. I should of disengaged right then and there.

We really need that LGBT section we voted on last year or something like it that new people can actually use or know exists. Last time I posted a topic in the "secret" forum there only 1 person ever even noticed it or responded.

I only bother to say anything as this thread is moving so fast my post won't bump it any.

Do you want me to delete my posts then? Doesn't bother me any because it was silly that it escalated like that.

 

[LuisDantas]

In what regard? I make a simple statement that did not even have be analyzed through research. Not much to look into to

You sound like you only know of LGBT - or at least transexuals - by way of some form of fantasy fiction of dubious taste.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Eh. I don't know if you're in the states, but a lot of us Americans like to compare our laws and morals to those outside the country. I was never into politics until I started taking this US history class now. We just finished the vietnam war, and all the, cough, mess going on in US, Japan, Germany (oh gosh, what a mess with Germany), and so forth. It would be nice to focus on our own country for a change.

I am from California actually, so I live in a very progressive state . I took 2 US history classes and enjoy both but the first was had a quacky instructor.

I agree with the central focus of the US though, it seems very odd that things create tension here. You have people like me who are conservative and spend little to no time thinking about the things that get Republicans upset like gay marriage while you have Democrats who are offended by capitalism. Very odd that it has come to this but mostly I blame the push toward equality as a forced political event. I know that right-wingers try washing their hands of it but that is simply not the case.

I do agree with @Kapalika. LGBTQ should have their own DIR instead of a room tucked away in the corner. I know it's a sensitive topic. I get flared up because if I know one LGBTQ is discriminated or killed, I feel the same way. I never read the article in the OP because that.

I actually thought there was one already . @Kapalika just informed me otherwise

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Not trying to make light of anyone's death but this is not the norm that transgenders face. No such thing exists as a transgender assassination club. I understand the issues transgenders face but do not stretch the truth to make it appear worse than what it is.

It's not an adjective objective (rather) post, though. A lot of us LGBTQ have close ties to these incidents and even though the statistics don't show crime against transgender is at a high point (depending on place and locality), to those who are close to it, it is strong nonetheless.

It's not an exaggeration but a personal expression of how the OP feels about the situation and a discussion about it without debate.

I get that you weren't making light of the issue; just, it is more of a personal issue rather than professional one. That's why we need an LGBT forum. Not to push heterosexuals and non-accepting people out; but, just to talk about these issues like Christians do with other Christians etc for mutual support and general discussion.

You don't need to delete your posts, though. It's a sensitive issue.

 

[Sha'irullah]

You sound like you only know of LGBT - or at least transexuals - by way of some form of fantasy fiction of dubious taste.

Makes no sense but I am not exposed to fiction that much. I have had no interest in videogames yet alone pop culture for quite some years which leaves me left out ot general fandom.

I have always questioned your reading comprehension for years considering most of our debacles result in you assuming too much of my posts as well. My sarcasm do not exist for purposes of intellectual conversations and the fact you have taken it as otherwise puts you in question everytime. For a person like me to complain about details and have others force grand schemes into my dialogue is very frustrating.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I am from California actually, so I live in a very progressive state . I took 2 US history classes and enjoy both but the first was had a quacky instructor.

I agree with the central focus of the US though, it seems very odd that things create tension here. You have people like me who are conservative and spend little to no time thinking about the things that get Republicans upset like gay marriage while you have Democrats who are offended by capitalism. Very odd that it has come to this but mostly I blame the push toward equality as a forced political event. I know that right-wingers try washing their hands of it but that is simply not the case.



I actually thought there was one already . @Kapalika just informed me otherwise

California, gosh, that's more progressive than VA and DC here. Though, equality regardless if it's class, age, sex, gender, etc, is a huge issue and should be a political one. I mean, it's one thing that a minor can't drink alcohol because he's underage. It's another he can't because he is black or, say female instead even though he (or she the latter) is way over 21.

Actually, I thought democrats where "for the minority" and republicans were not. Then after going through the reconstruction and redeemer history, I think either I'll change parties or just put Other all together.

Also, no. They didn't make an LGBTQ room. They have one that you have to ask permission to join but because it's at the bottom of forum page, and you have to shift just to get to the forum page (which you didn't have to before), it makes it a pain just to make a new thread. Who knows how many people are signed up. However, if there were a public one, then more people who haven't came out may want to talk about their religious conflicts and challenges going through transition etc. It's a nice addition but no one has told us the poll results or if they are thinking about putting it in.

 

[Sha'irullah]

It's not an adjective post, though. A lot of us LGBTQ have close ties to these incidents and even though the statistics don't show crime against transgender is at a high point (depending on place and locality), to those who are close to it, it is strong nonetheless.

Exactly my point earlier. It does not need to be politicized in a dishonest manner. People are being killed and nobody needs to stretch the truth about murder as this is the very reason why you have societal panics over things like gluten. The fact we have thousands if not millions of people afraid of bread protein is unthinkable to me.

It's not an exaggeration but a personal expression of how the OP feels about the situation and a discussion about it without debate.

That is one thing but what sparked me was in the OP as it stated that : "A lot of juries let off people in this situation and have in the past."

And by getting off he meant sentence reduction. Getting 12 or more years in prison is not that much of a sentence reduction in some cases.

I get that you weren't making light of the issue; just, it is more of a personal issue rather than professional one. That's why we need an LGBT forum. Not to push heterosexuals and non-accepting people out; but, just to talk about these issues like Christians do with other Christians etc for mutual support and general discussion.

Never bothered me any

You don't need to delete your posts, though. It's a sensitive issue.

I just wanted to delete them since they were extremely off topic and I had to defend myself and my original comment. There was no legitimate debate and those lengthy posts are essentially useless and not arguing anything remotely legitimate.

 

[Sha'irullah]

California, gosh, that's more progressive than VA and DC here. Though, equality regardless if it's class, age, sex, gender, etc, is a huge issue and should be a political one. I mean, it's one thing that a minor can't drink alcohol because he's underage. It's another he can't because he is black or, say female instead even though he (or she the latter) is way over 21.

Actually, I thought democrats where "for the minority" and republicans were not. Then after going through the reconstruction and redeemer history, I think either I'll change parties or just put Other all together.

This is a massive contention in politics. Democrats all the way up to the 90s were the party of choice for the KKK and White Nationalists movement until Clinton. This is why you had people like JFK who were pro NRA, military and avid free market capitalists who by modern times would be called Republicans. Republicans began favoring small business like Democrats but changed. Republicans began using corporate power as a plow while Democrats favored big business for tax purposed and job growth while lowering smaller business and invest through the 90's by federal stimulation. Republicans stuck to freer markets and minorities while Democrats by the 90s began using progressivism to employ voting tactics.

You have to remember that Clinton was a New Democrat meaning he was shifting from the welfare state to a semi free-market economy which was why he got into power. People like Bill Whittle at this point began calling the treatment of minorities by the Democrats the "Democratic Plantation."

The point being is that us righties hate social justice on the principle that it is injected into politics and forces people to conform and creates further violence. We want more Gandhis and less Obamas who will fight for their rights in society and not through aggression.

. . . I really don't want to ramble at this point.

Also, no. They didn't make an LGBTQ room. They have one that you have to ask permission to join but because it's at the bottom of forum page, and you have to shift just to get to the forum page (which you didn't have to before), it makes it a pain just to make a new thread. Who knows how many people are signed up. However, if there were a public one, then more people who haven't came out may want to talk about their religious conflicts and challenges going through transition etc. It's a nice addition but no one has told us the poll results or if they are thinking about putting it in.

This explains my confusion then as I wa sin the eros group.