You'd Think That Those Who Ran Public Schools Would Be Brighter Than This

[sooda]

Would you see a problem if they took the kids to a mosque to learn Koranic stories?

No.. I think that's a great idea.. In fact the Saudi Embassy has a program you can request.. They will come to school , fix an Arab lunch and talk about the flora and fauna of Arabia, the history of Arabia. Its a great program.

 

[Father Heathen]

How about Art for its own sake? A
Do you also want to stop teaching about the Pilgrims?

Nothing wrong with teaching an accurate, historical account of the pilgrims, since it's actually educational.

 

[Father Heathen]

No.. I think that's a great idea.. In fact the Saudi Embassy has a program you can request.. They will come to school , fix an Arab lunch and talk about the flora and fauna of Arabia, the history of Arabia. Its a great program.

That sounds like it has a lot more to do with history, culture, and ecology than it does religion.

 

[David1967]

Would you see a problem if they took the kids to a mosque to learn Koranic stories?

Depends on the context. If it was for historical purposes then no problem. If it was for proselytizing, then no.

 

[Skwim]

Depends on the context. If it was for historical purposes then no problem. If it was for proselytizing, then no.

I don't see purpose as relevant. Ultimately, it's what's imparted to the child's mind. And exposing him or her to the message about the character of the Christian god---the reason the story is told in the Bible---is in violation of the separation of church and state.

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[Stevicus]

Well, we know the original story is biblical, about a whale swallowing Jonas, and then a few days later vomiting him out on land.

...But is the play actually meant to be a religious learning experience? Or is it meant to learn about how to do a play? The Friendly Atheist article doesn't specify their purpose in going -they just portray it as "ignorant" in their efforts at furthering their own agenda.

I suppose it depends on whether they're doing so because of a genuine educational purpose or if it's more a religious purpose. There are public schools which teach the literature of the Bible - and analyzing it as they would any other written work. That's permissible since there is a true educational purpose in doing so.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Would you see a problem if they took the kids to a mosque to learn Koranic stories?

It's kind of interesting when you think about it because I learned a lot about Roman mythology like Thor, Zeus, and Apollo in school. However the school would be obligated to say it's a mythological account they are discussing and not reality if they are to include the tales involving Abrahamic religions.

 

[sooda]

I suppose it depends on whether they're doing so because of a genuine educational purpose or if it's more a religious purpose. There are public schools which teach the literature of the Bible - and analyzing it as they would any other written work. That's permissible since there is a true educational purpose in doing so.

Its a school play......

 

[Father Heathen]

Depends on the context. If it was for historical purposes then no problem. If it was for proselytizing, then no.

But what exactly is historic about the story of Jonah then?

 

[Father Heathen]

It's kind of interesting when you think about it because I learned a lot about Roman mythology like Thor, Zeus, and Apollo in school. However the school would be obligated to say it's a mythological account they are discussing and not reality if they are to include the tales involving Abrahamic religions.

Right. The difference is that ancient mythologies aren't presented as literal, actual beings to be worshiped and abided.

 

[sooda]

But what exactly is historic about the story of Jonah then?

Jonah is a comic novella about xenophobia. It would make a funny play.

 

[Ponder This]

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Iowa Public School is Taking Kids to a Christian Play at a Christian College
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"A group of first graders from the Cherokee Community School District in Iowa are taking a field trip later this week to see the play “Jonah and the Giant Fish” (about the biblical myth) at Northwestern College (a private Christian college) during the school day.

Somehow, none of those glaring red flags inspired the adults at Roosevelt Elementary School to say this was a bad idea.

Now the American Humanist Association is getting involved, letting district officials know that this is unconstitutional for a number of reasons:

… not only will RES students be taken to an avowedly Christian institution, but they will do so for the express purpose of seeing a Christian-themed play. The risk that these children will perceive a school endorsement of a religious message should be readily apparent.

We hope that you will replace this school field trip with something more appropriate, where children and parents of all religions, and no religion at all, will be properly respected. We also remind you that any actions that might be considered punitive or retaliatory toward those raising concerns about the matters described herein would be unlawful as well.​

Attorney Monica Miller wants an answer by Wednesday, which is reasonable given that it gives them two days to rearrange their plans.
source​

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"risk... school endorsement"
"actions that might be considered punitive or retaliatory"

This school just got targeted... the AHA? I see: equality for the "non-religious". According to their web page, it's what they do. Not exactly free-thinking is it? More like coercion through litigation and the threat of litigation. Interesting.

 

[sooda]

But what exactly is historic about the story of Jonah then?

Nothing.. Its NOT historic at all. Its a short, funny morality tale.

 

[Subduction Zone]

"risk... school endorsement"
"actions that might be considered punitive or retaliatory"

This school just got targeted... the AHA? I see: equality for the "non-religious". According to their web page, it's what they do. Not exactly free-thinking is it? More like coercion through litigation and the threat of litigation. Interesting.

No, equality for all. They are not advocating that atheism be taught at schools. They are merely pointing out that one religion cannot get preferential treatment than others. Is reminding people of the laws "coercion"? The last thing they want to do is to bring a lawsuit on.

 

[wandering peacefully]

I don't see purpose as relevant. Ultimately, it's what's imparted to the child's mind. And exposing him or her to the message about the character of the Christian god---the reason the story is told in the Bible---is in violation of the separation of church and state.

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Have you ever driven through Iowa and tuned in to the radio? There are about 8 religious stations and one really bad 80's station. I don't think they will be easily convinced that all of the children shouldn't be attending religious events whenever possible.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Have you ever driven through Iowa and tuned in to the radio? There are about 8 religious stations and one really bad 80's station. I don't think they will be easily convinced that all of the children shouldn't be attending religious events whenever possible.

They are not that dumb. Sometimes one does have to remind them of the results of lawsuits if they push the issue.

 

[Skwim]

Have you ever driven through Iowa and tuned in to the radio? There are about 8 religious stations and one really bad 80's station. I don't think they will be easily convinced that all of the children shouldn't be attending religious events whenever possible.

FWIW, there are 331 radio stations in Iowa, of which 66, 20%, have a religious format.

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[Saint Frankenstein]

Anyways, there's no religion more American than Christianity. We're just going to have to accept that fact.

Many of the Founding Fathers were Deists who hated institutional Christianity (look at Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin, for example). America is a revolutionary Enlightenment experiment, same as modern France. Try again.

 

[Moz]

Well it's that by default. Only problem is that it's a Christian fairy tale promoting god's overreaching power. (As I recall it.)


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Is that really all you think it was. That is very sad.

 

[Moz]

Cherokee community school huh?

Maybe they should change the field trip to taking a tour of the Cherokee Nation and learning about their history from the Cherokee point of view.

It's certainly a lot more educational than a Christian Fairy Tale.

I would have thought that a play set in the fading days of the Neo Assyrian Empire centered around the great city of Nineveh would be quite educational. Especially considering your damned country is still at war in that exact area against the descendants of those people.
Also a story about doing the hard thing or the easy thing and that running from your repsonsibilities just delaays the enevitable is not a bad thing for young ones either.