Young Hillsong Church congregant who mocked vaccine dies of COVID

[Wandering Monk]

I am not angry with the unvaccinated. I am angry with the people lying to them about Covid and vaccine risks.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Personally I don't wish for anyone to die, whether they're vaccinated or not. I find the social darwinist "let the weak/stupid die" stuff to be incredibly callous and unwise. The most humane thing to do, IMHO, is to continue insisting that people wear masks and social distance and provide them accurate medical information to encourage them to get vaccinated.

Some probably will. I think pushing, though, is counterproductive with some people. When you push too much it makes people fight back. That, or like if someone keeps poking you long enough time soon you become numb to any pain. Some make decisions under pressure whether using positive incentives like discounts or negative incentives like not being able to go to the grocery store while others do not.

There's really no middle ground, unfortunately.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I am not angry with the unvaccinated. I am angry with the people lying to them about Covid and vaccine risks.

That doesn't make sense. CDC has a lot of risks and keeps up with side affects and possible side affects to vaccines on their site. COVID-19 Vaccination At least to an extent (probable not much out of panic) they are keeping people up-to-date about both sides... the problem is do provaxxers read them with the same eye as they do the benefits.

Unless CDC are liers?

 

[Wandering Monk]

That doesn't make sense. CDC has a lot of risks and keeps up with side affects and possible side affects to vaccines on their site. COVID-19 Vaccination At least to an extent (probable not much out of panic) they are keeping people up-to-date about both sides... the problem is do provaxxers read them with the same eye as they do the benefits.

Unless CDC are liers?

I am not talking about absence of risk, but comparison of risk vs. benefit.

But here is an example of lies, usually spouted by Tucker Carlson. The claim that 5700 or 11000 people have died from the vaccination according to the CDC VAERS reporting system.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I am not talking about absence of risk, but comparison of risk vs. benefit.

But the comparison should be made by the pro/antivaxxers when looking at the risks and benefits. If both parties saw these things with the same eye and walked away with different decisions there's no problem in and of itself.

Who would be lying to the unvaccinated about COVID risks, though?

Edit.
If they go to credible sites then what other reason would provaxxers give them to justify their decisions whether by saying their ignorant or just plain rejection?

 

[Left Coast]

Some probably will. I think pushing, though, is counterproductive with some people. When you push too much it makes people fight back. That, or like if someone keeps poking you long enough time soon you become numb to any pain. Some make decisions under pressure whether using positive incentives like discounts or negative incentives like not being able to go to the grocery store while others do not.

There's really no middle ground, unfortunately.

Some people will never get vaccinated no matter what is done or said. So at a certain point what can be done is to respectfully educate people, dispell antivaxxer myths that are out there, and show folks that it's safe and effective to be vaccinated.

 

[Revoltingest]

As far as I'm concerned, anybody who is eligible for the vaccine and refuses to get it deserves to get good and sick. And if they die, I don't give a damn. Even with the Delta variant, if everyone in the U.S. who could be vaccinated by now was, we would NOT be where we are today. I have ZERO patience with anti-vaxxers.

Anti-vaxers are potentially useful. If they do get terribly sick,
& then recover, they can become advocates for vaccination
& other preventive measures. I've seen it happen.
About sympathy for them, I'm short on that. But I see do them as
having mental problems. Those can be overcome...a personal
growth thingie. They're not lost causes.

Yes, I find some of them dangerously irresponsible.
We must work to change their minds.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Some people will never get vaccinated no matter what is done or said. So at a certain point what can be done is to respectfully educate people, dispell antivaxxer myths that are out there, and show folks that it's safe and effective to be vaccinated.

Do you believe that getting rid of myths will automatically change people's decisions about their health and others? (Does it hold that much power?)

I'd hope that unvaccinated people just as the vaccinated made their decisions based on authoritative sites they read. I'm not at all sure how one not being vaccinated and their decision immediately means they are ignorant. I don't see the inherent connection just the connection provaxxers give them.

 

[F1fan]

What about those who mocked the virus , caught it,, and lived?

Still foolish, but luckier.

 

[F1fan]

Anti-vaxers are potentially useful. If they do get terribly sick,
& then recover, they can become advocates for vaccination
& other preventive measures. I've seen it happen.
About sympathy for them, I'm short on that. But I see do them as
having mental problems. Those can be overcome...a personal
growth thingie. They're not lost causes.

Yes, I find some of them dangerously irresponsible.
We must work to change their minds.

There's one guy who insists he still wouldn't get the vaccine even though he was hospitalized. So there quite a few bad examples spreading bad advice.

Plus those many who are still getting infected are helping the virus become more infectious and dangerous. I suspect there will be another big wave of infection this fall/winter and the economy will take another hit. Schools are already arguing about whether to require vaccine mandates. Polio was an example of a good required vaccine.

 

[Revoltingest]

There's one guy who insists he still wouldn't get the vaccine even though he was hospitalized. So there quite a few bad examples spreading bad advice.

A brush with death doesn't edify everyone.
I can only hope for some.

Plus those many who are still getting infected are helping the virus become more infectious and dangerous. I suspect there will be another big wave of infection this fall/winter and the economy will take another hit. Schools are already arguing about whether to require vaccine mandates. Polio was an example of a good required vaccine.

No argument here.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Still foolish, but luckier.

Well luck is actually in their favor.

 

[Left Coast]

Do you believe that getting rid of myths will automatically change people's decisions about their health and others? (Does it hold that much power?)

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. People are persuaded by all kinds of different things.

I'd hope that unvaccinated people just as the vaccinated made their decisions based on authoritative sites they read. I'm not at all sure how one not being vaccinated and their decision immediately means they are ignorant. I don't see the inherent connection just the connection provaxxers give them.

The thing is, there are no reputable authoritative scientific sites telling people not to get vaccinated (unless they've been personally evaluated by a doctor and have some medical reason not to, like an allergy). So with anti-vaxxers we're generally dealing with people who don't have the education to understand scientific research and/or don't have the media literacy skills to perceive when they're reading a source that's actually reputable and authoritative vs. some blog a guy wrote or what their pastor told them.

 

[Jose Fly]

Why are so many Evangelicals putting their faith in direct conflict with science?

I haven't read through the whole thread, but I have to say.......really? Evangelical Christians have a long, long history of science denialism. This is just the latest iteration of it.

 

[Wandering Monk]

I haven't read through the whole thread, but I have to say.......really? Evangelical Christians have a long, long history of science denialism. This is just the latest iteration of it.

It all starts with Evolution. Their belief that God created the world 6,000 years ago, and that man was created as he currently exists, conflicts with the science. So, guess who is wrong? Not them, not their Bible or their preachers; Science is wrong. And in their mind, if Science got this wrong, it is probably wrong about everything else (when it conflicts with what they want to believe, at least.)

 

[Jose Fly]

It all starts with Evolution. Their belief that God created the world 6,000 years ago, and that man was created as he currently exists, conflicts with the science. So, guess who is wrong? Not them, not their Bible or their preachers; Science is wrong. And in their mind, if Science got this wrong, it is probably wrong about everything else (when it conflicts with what they want to believe, at least.)

I grew up in a very conservative evangelical environment, and there was always a very strong anti-science, anti-scientist sentiment among my family and our church friends. Evolution was certainly a part of that, as was the age of the earth and universe, the acid rain issue (remember that?), and the HIV outbreak. Nowdays evangelicals are all in on denial of global warming too.

The difference this time is, their denialism is literally killing some of them.

 

[Wandering Monk]

I grew up in a very conservative evangelical environment, and there was always a very strong anti-science, anti-scientist sentiment among my family and our church friends. Evolution was certainly a part of that, as was the age of the earth and universe, the acid rain issue (remember that?), and the HIV outbreak. Nowdays evangelicals are all in on denial of global warming too.

The difference this time is, their denialism is literally killing some of them.

Your story sounds the same as mine. Everything is reactionary.

 

[Twilight Hue]

There's one guy who insists he still wouldn't get the vaccine even though he was hospitalized. So there quite a few bad examples spreading bad advice.

Plus those many who are still getting infected are helping the virus become more infectious and dangerous. I suspect there will be another big wave of infection this fall/winter and the economy will take another hit. Schools are already arguing about whether to require vaccine mandates. Polio was an example of a good required vaccine.

What you say here makes sense in the context you put it.

I figure if the infection lands you bad enough to put you in hospital, then it stands to reason to make sure you keep active immunity as often as necessary, and take revelant vaccines to prevent another hospitalization from occurring.

Hell, I'd take a vaccine if I know for a fact coronavirus will land me in some hospital.

It's all a matter of reason and risk assessment.

 

[Father Heathen]

I am not angry with the unvaccinated. I am angry with the people lying to them about Covid and vaccine risks.

They deserve rebuke for trusting politicians and pundits over actual doctors and scientists. People make the choice to wallow in willful ignorance.

 

[Wandering Monk]

What you say here makes sense in the context you put it.

I figure if the infection lands you bad enough to put you in hospital, then it stands to reason to make sure you keep active immunity as often as necessary, and take revelant vaccines to prevent another hospitalization from occurring.

Hell, I'd take a vaccine if I know for a fact coronavirus will land me in some hospital.

It's all a matter of reason and risk assessment.

34 million confirmed cases in the US, 19 million hospitalizations for Covid. That is a 54% chance of hospitalization if you test positive.