ElishaElijah
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I can take a guess as to why but it’s probably because I don’t agree that vaccines are the best option for our family and you don’t agree so you make statements like that which are wrong.
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Young Hillsong Church congregant who mocked vaccine dies of COVID
- Thread starter AlexanderG
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- contradiction faith science
ElishaElijah
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I’m not against vaccines as I said, I’m waiting to see. Israel has success with vaccines but people still getting infected. This was also shared in a recent article I read:
The people who are not testing positive in the current outbreak are those who have had COVID-19 previously and recovered. These people account for 9% of Israel’s population but less than 1% of recent infections, according to Kovler’s analysis. This has brought new questions about whether natural infections are more protective against the delta variant than vaccinations — but the answer is not yet certain.
tas8831
Well-Known Member
What about them? Surely you do not equate medical intervention with miracles? That would be crazy.
tas8831
Well-Known Member
That is true. But it does kill far more, proportionally, than other currently uncontrolled communicable diseases, and unlike the common flu, Covid seems to produce longer-lasting effects on most of those that survive.
The point is, denying the potential lethality of this as a matter of faith is not only harmful, especially to many older folk who tend to be easily taken in by evangelical mania and propaganda, it is stupid and hateful.
And all for political/social gain.
I guess all that 'love they neighbor' stuff is too snowflakey and non-Trumpy for the modern evangelical.
So.... you think vaccines are a treatment?
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
tas8831
Well-Known Member
Vaccines are NOT "treatments."
This is why actual, knowledgeable people should be listened to in these times, not dime-store religionists with a Golden Idol to prop up.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
The unvaccinated are the ones currently holding us back from getting this virus under control.
I've actually explained that to you before, as have other posters.
Everyone is at risk of contracting COVID.
Vaccinations will help cut down on new variants arising, as I just explained in the last post. This is why herd immunity is so important!
Masks work (along with other social distancing measures). So I guess they're going to stick with what works.
I don't doubt it at all. You've been presented with many examples of the unvaccinated making their decisions from misinformation.
It's not my opinion that the unvaccinated are holding us back from reaching herd immunity.
Unfortunately, it is a sad reality.
Long term effects of vaccines typically show up within 8 weeks after administration. As I just pointed out.
ElishaElijah
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Another troll and baiting post from someone who doesn’t understand that there are vaccines AND other treatments. Lol
ElishaElijah
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That’s not true, the article you posted referencing your sentiment doesn’t use that language. What appears to be happening is the vaccines aren’t performing like we had hoped with vaccinated people still not immune and now it’s the blame game.
ecco
Veteran Member
If you had read the article you would have seen they recommend the use of
Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin, both products that Covid nutjob Pillow Guy Mike has and does endorse.
BTW...
Pharmacists Fight Off COVID Truthers Demanding Horse Medicine Instead of the Jab
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-08-toxic-potential-hydroxychloroquine-mammalian-cells.html
"The uproar over HCQ drew our group's attention, and we realized that, although the drug has been widely used for the treatment of diseases ranging from malaria to rheumatoid arthritis, its exact mechanisms of action are only beginning to be understood," Besaratinia says. "Most importantly, there was no data on whether HCQ has adverse effects on the genome."
Hydroxychloroquine shows mutagenic effects at clinical achievable dose
Besaratinia's study demonstrated conclusively that HCQ exhibits DNA-damaging and mutagenic effects at a clinically achievable dose. He notes that the dosages were critical to the findings. "We conducted the study using a cell culture system derived from embryonic mouse cells. Whereas many in vitro experiments administer unrealistically high levels of a drug for testing, we used therapeutic doses of HCQ that are actually given to patients," he says.
Use of HCQ has long been associated with cardiotoxicity and ophthalmologic and gastrointestinal complications. Besaratinia's study suggests the possibility of additional side effects that might impact patient populations. For instance, mutations induced by DNA damage are the cause of many chronic diseases including cancer. "This drug is capable of inducing genetic mutation, which means we must carefully measure the risks and benefits of its use, especially in the context of clinical trials," he says.
But, please, don't let real science stand in the way of you and yours using these wonder drugs. Who knows, you may not encounter cardiotoxicity or ophthalmologic and gastrointestinal complications. Your DNA might not get damaged.It’s not snake oil, literally. But as bogus COVID-19 miracle drugs go, horse paste comes pretty close.
As coronavirus infections rage among the unvaccinated, those suspicious of the shot are championing a new supposed COVID-19 cure. Thanks to a dubious study of ivermectin, a drug used in humans to treat parasites like scabies, cranks have seized on the drug as the new solution to coronavirus prevention and treatment.
Devotees have besieged pharmacists with prescriptions from shady online prescribers, forcing pharmacies to crack down and treat the antiparasitic drugs like opioids. As human-approved ivermectin prescriptions have been harder to come by, enthusiasts have taken to raiding rural tractor supply stores in search of ivermectin horse paste (packed with “apple flavor!”) and weighed the benefits of taking ivermectin “sheep drench” and a noromectin “injection for swine and cattle.”
“There is certainly a noticeable increase in calls to poison centers regarding ivermectin being misused,” a Texas-based poison control specialist
As coronavirus infections rage among the unvaccinated, those suspicious of the shot are championing a new supposed COVID-19 cure. Thanks to a dubious study of ivermectin, a drug used in humans to treat parasites like scabies, cranks have seized on the drug as the new solution to coronavirus prevention and treatment.
Devotees have besieged pharmacists with prescriptions from shady online prescribers, forcing pharmacies to crack down and treat the antiparasitic drugs like opioids. As human-approved ivermectin prescriptions have been harder to come by, enthusiasts have taken to raiding rural tractor supply stores in search of ivermectin horse paste (packed with “apple flavor!”) and weighed the benefits of taking ivermectin “sheep drench” and a noromectin “injection for swine and cattle.”
“There is certainly a noticeable increase in calls to poison centers regarding ivermectin being misused,” a Texas-based poison control specialist
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-08-toxic-potential-hydroxychloroquine-mammalian-cells.html
Study points to toxic potential of hydroxychloroquine in mammalian cells
Now, a new study published in the journal DNA Repair shows, for the first time, HCQ's genotoxicity in mammalian cells. The study was led by Ahmad Besaratinia, Ph.D., professor of research in the Department of Population and Public Health Sciences at the Keck School of Medicine of USC.
Now, a new study published in the journal DNA Repair shows, for the first time, HCQ's genotoxicity in mammalian cells. The study was led by Ahmad Besaratinia, Ph.D., professor of research in the Department of Population and Public Health Sciences at the Keck School of Medicine of USC.
"The uproar over HCQ drew our group's attention, and we realized that, although the drug has been widely used for the treatment of diseases ranging from malaria to rheumatoid arthritis, its exact mechanisms of action are only beginning to be understood," Besaratinia says. "Most importantly, there was no data on whether HCQ has adverse effects on the genome."
Hydroxychloroquine shows mutagenic effects at clinical achievable dose
Besaratinia's study demonstrated conclusively that HCQ exhibits DNA-damaging and mutagenic effects at a clinically achievable dose. He notes that the dosages were critical to the findings. "We conducted the study using a cell culture system derived from embryonic mouse cells. Whereas many in vitro experiments administer unrealistically high levels of a drug for testing, we used therapeutic doses of HCQ that are actually given to patients," he says.
Use of HCQ has long been associated with cardiotoxicity and ophthalmologic and gastrointestinal complications. Besaratinia's study suggests the possibility of additional side effects that might impact patient populations. For instance, mutations induced by DNA damage are the cause of many chronic diseases including cancer. "This drug is capable of inducing genetic mutation, which means we must carefully measure the risks and benefits of its use, especially in the context of clinical trials," he says.
ecco
Veteran Member
See post #948 above.
ecco
Veteran Member
There are multiple articles available from medical scientific sources that clearly state your beliefs are wrong.
The vaccines are performing as expected. Phizer was made publically available rated at 94% effective. To any rational intelligent person, that means that 6% of people vaccinated with Pfizer are just as likely to get covid as unvaccinated people.
The only people who are using "the blame game" are people who intentionally ignore facts and want to make the vaccines look bad to support their biased agendas.
ecco
Veteran Member
Yes. People who are immune-compromised due to medical or medical treatment conditions.
As to the rest, wilful ignorance and relying on misinformation from unreliable sources are the chief culprits.
ecco
Veteran Member
You have referred to this many times and from your posts. You are using it to guide your decisions. But much worse, you are touting this to members of RF.
Let's look at your experts...
Who We Are - AAPS | Association of American Physicians and Surgeons
Doctor [Jane] Orient is the Executive Director of Association of American Physicians and Surgeons and has been in solo practice of general internal medicine since 1981.
She is not an epidemiologist. She is not an infectious disease specialist.
Why would anyone trust her over people who are infectious disease specialists? Would you go to her if you had chest pains or an impacted tooth? Yet you rely on her for Covid advice.
McCullough is even worse...
https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/93936
He's a cardiologist. He's a cardiologist who is unethical. He's a quack. Yet, you put your and your family's well-being in his hands.Baylor Scott & White Health sued former employee and cardiologist Peter McCullough, MD, last week, alleging that he illegitimately affiliated himself with its facilities when promoting controversial views about COVID-19.
In several media interviews, McCullough has spread misinformation about COVID-19 vaccines and treatments. He has claimed that there is no scientific reason for healthy people under 50 and those who have recovered from COVID to get the vaccine, and has asserted that 50,000 Americans have died from the shots.
McCullough has also come under fire for promoting the use of hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19. A group of clinicians from Doctors for America, a nonprofit physician organization, wrote in the Dallas Morning News last December that they were "deeply concerned after hearing the baseless, misleading commentary" from McCullough, in which he promoted the use of the antimalarial drug for early outpatient COVID-19 care. Randomized controlled trials have repeatedly shown that hydroxychloroquine is not effective to treat or prevent COVID-19, the physicians said.
In several media interviews, McCullough has spread misinformation about COVID-19 vaccines and treatments. He has claimed that there is no scientific reason for healthy people under 50 and those who have recovered from COVID to get the vaccine, and has asserted that 50,000 Americans have died from the shots.
McCullough has also come under fire for promoting the use of hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19. A group of clinicians from Doctors for America, a nonprofit physician organization, wrote in the Dallas Morning News last December that they were "deeply concerned after hearing the baseless, misleading commentary" from McCullough, in which he promoted the use of the antimalarial drug for early outpatient COVID-19 care. Randomized controlled trials have repeatedly shown that hydroxychloroquine is not effective to treat or prevent COVID-19, the physicians said.
If you want to rely on these people's erroneous ignorant opinions for information on how to live with Covid. OK. I really don't care.
However, you are touting the dangerous nonsense in their article over and over to members of this forum.
tas8831
Well-Known Member
Oh, you poor thing...
"there’s vaccines and other treatments available for everyone"
Look at your grammar, silly boy.
tas8831
Well-Known Member
So.... if you have a disease and do not die, and become immune, what do you think happens when exposed to the same or a very similar pathogen again the future?
I would really like to see your answer.
tas8831
Well-Known Member
Ah, so you are going with quacks and frauds spouting disinformation.
tas8831
Well-Known Member
What do you think "immune" means?
We Never Know
No Slack
If travelers quit bringing other variants here, we would be doing a lot better now than we are.
B.1.1.7 (Alpha): This variant was first detected in the United States in December 2020. It was initially detected in the United Kingdom.
B.1.351 (Beta): This variant was first detected in the United States at the end of January 2021. It was initially detected in South Africa in December 2020.
P.1 (Gamma): This variant was first detected in the United States in January 2021. P.1 was initially identified in travelers from Brazil, who were tested during routine screening at an airport in Japan, in early January.
B.1.617.2 (Delta): This variant was first detected in the United States in March 2021. It was initially identified in India in December 2020.
B. 1.617.2.1 or AY.1(Delta plus) found in the US on July 2021. First identified in Europe in March 2021.
Edit...
Add another one.
lineage C.37(lambda) first detected in Peru in December 2020 is in the US now also
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ElishaElijah
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If you bothered to look at the context of the discussion you would know vaccines are one thing and treatments another. But seen as your just trolling you’d miss that.