Young Hillsong Church congregant who mocked vaccine dies of COVID

[Left Coast]

I honestly never read, heard, or watched any antivaxxer say the vaccine does not work but more so they don't trust it (apart from @ElijahElisha 's comment).

Oh for heaven's sake.

All I can say is that you haven't paid attention.

It's still in the experimental phase

No, it is not. If it were, it would not be available to the public.

I think I got the consensus now that I think of it, there is so much that we don't know than we do know and the minority (generalizing) more than likely rather see have it in the reverse. It just depends on the person... some people feel its worth to take the risk based on the facts they know so far and others know there is much more to learn that may or may not invalidate those facts in the long term. We just don't know.

But again, UA...we do know. At least, the medical community who has evaluated the research data knows. Which is why we're incessantly encouraging people to get vaccinated.

So again, the fact that you don't know, and that's why you're not vaccinated, underscores my original point.

 

[ElishaElijah]

If you are not vaccinated the chances of death or long vaccine sky rockets.

For some high risk people yes

 

[Left Coast]

Which is what I was saying, even if you get vaccinated you can still get it and not immune which is what vaccines are supposed to do.

No vaccine, or medical treatment of any kind, is ever 100% effective. The COVID vaccines are incredibly effective, however, and do demonstrably drastically reduce your likelihood of getting COVID.

 

[SomeRandom]

Which is what I was saying, even if you get vaccinated you can still get it and not immune which is what vaccines are supposed to do.

Ehh. Half true??
Vaccines are like a training run for your immune system. They teach your body how to recognise certain symptoms and how to fight off a disease should you still encounter it. Granted vaccines are more about prevention, relying on a sort of “force field” around society (the levels required differ disease to disease) of sorts. To slow down or prevent an outbreak. If an outbreak does occur, the more hosts essentially means more random mutations for the virus. In effect undoing the vaccine in the first place by rendering the mutated virus unrecognisable to your immune system again.
Also have you never heard of “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.”
This pandemic will only worsen the longer we allow it to ravage our societies.

 

[ElishaElijah]

No vaccine, or medical treatment of any kind, is ever 100% effective. The COVID vaccines are incredibly effective, however, and do demonstrably drastically reduce your likelihood of getting COVID.

Yeah and not without risk and would rather wait and not be one of the guinea pigs for the testing and trial period.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Ehh. Half true??
Vaccines are like a training run for your immune system. They teach your body how to recognise certain symptoms and how to fight off a disease should you still encounter it. Granted vaccines are more about prevention, relying on a sort of “force field” around society (the levels required differ disease to disease) of sorts. To slow down or prevent an outbreak. If an outbreak does occur, the more hosts essentially means more random mutations for the virus. In effect undoing the vaccine in the first place by rendering the mutated virus unrecognisable to your immune system again.
Also have you never heard of “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.”
This pandemic will only worsen the longer we allow it to ravage our societies.

Yeah and the prevention is living a healthy lifestyle with a good inmune system.

 

[SomeRandom]

Yeah and the prevention is living a healthy lifestyle with a good inmune system.

Not necessarily. Healthy immune systems can only do so much.

 

[Left Coast]

Yeah and not without risk and would rather wait and not be one of the guinea pigs for the testing and trial period.

No medical treatment is ever free of risk. The risk of any serious side effect of getting a COVID vaccine is very small. They were already clinically tested on tens of thousands of people before being released to the broader public and have been safely administered to millions worldwide.

What is it you're waiting for, exactly? What evidence are you looking for that would convince you to actually be vaccinated?

 

[Wandering Monk]

Which is what I was saying, even if you get vaccinated you can still get it and not immune which is what vaccines are supposed to do.

Name ONE vaccine that is 100% effective against ANY disease

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You don’t? That’s all I have ever seen from the anti vaxx movement. Like all the time. I’m anti social even and I’ve always encountered such rhetoric from them. Do you only encounter the more PC approved responses from anti vaxx types, I wonder?

On and offline this is what I’ve always encountered
“Vaccines cause autism”
“Vaccines are a government conspiracy to control us”
“Vaccines don’t prevent disease”
“Vaccines aren’t necessary for kids disease” (usually referring to chicken pox.)
“I lived through small pox. Y’all are a bunch of wimps/sissies.”

Hell yesterday in Sydney there were literal protests in response to lockdown measures and vaccines calls. They even had signs that literally said vaccines don’t work or accusing the vaccine of being conspiratorial or COVID conspiratorial. I saw it with my own eyes

Wow. None of that here-at least on the street level since I don't drive and haven't gone out the area in near 10 years by public transport. My co-worker believes in the 5G myth but I don't know much about it. She also believes the end of the world is happening from the book of revelations so.

Wow. I never heard of those. I never took vaccines other than the required ones in elementary school. So I have no inherent issues with them in their purpose.

I honestly don't know. I stay away from all of that. I would have never known if not for my being told, the mask mandate, and RF.

There are unvaccinated that are not antivaxxers and made intelligent sound decisions not to vaccinate based on whatever reasoning and facts (not misinformation) they came across. While a minority, that doesn't mean its not true.

But no, I don't get myself involved in all of that. Which is good and I think that would be for other people's well-being... and I do not believe it should be justified by "we are thinking of other people not just ourselves." That's a mantra I see on television on lot and it spread like wildfire.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Oh for heaven's sake.

All I can say is that you haven't paid attention.

I don't read all the posts just the ones addressed to me and if I forget or need to go back, I just cross reference the original post with the current. I don't get myself wrapped up in arguments I can't shrug off when I cut off my PC.

No, it is not. If it were, it would not be available to the public.

Left. Experimental meaning we are still testing and gathering data to see what works and what does not-what needs to be proved, who can take it, what age, and so forth. Withholding J&J Alone says we do not know 100% these vaccines are effective "as people make them to be."

It is 100% experimental. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself-for many people this fact is irrelevant compared to how much they do know, what it is for, and why they choose to vaccinate.

But again, UA...we do know. At least, the medical community who has evaluated the research data knows. Which is why we're incessantly encouraging people to get vaccinated.

So again, the fact that you don't know, and that's why you're not vaccinated, underscores my original point.

We are still learning.

People vaccinated and they don't know either... so that's actually not a good argument. My whole point is there are people who Do know and choose not to vaccinate. I don't know out of ignorance and don't want to be physically sick over all of this but I'm not everyone and I don't represent everyone. There are unvaccinated who Do know and have interests and the position To know and still choose not to vaccinate.

There is no inherent connection between being unvaccinated and how much knowledge one retains as well as from where or who. It doesn't tell you why someone is unvaccinated and doesn't say who is against vaccines and who is not.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Not necessarily. Healthy immune systems can only do so much.

That’s the best prevention for Covid because it puts you in a low risk situation.

 

[Left Coast]

People vaccinated and they don't know either... so that's actually not a good argument.

Again, this indicates to me that you haven't actually asked very many unvaccinated people the question. Try it. Most unvaccinated people* do in fact have an idea why they have chosen not to be vaccinated. Ask them what it is. ElijahElisha just told you. Ask some others.

*in the US. I understand that in other countries the vaccines are not as widely available to folks; that's a different story.

My whole point is there are people who Do know and choose not to vaccinate. I don't know out of ignorance and don't want to be physically sick over all of this but I'm not everyone and I don't represent everyone. There are unvaccinated who Do know and have interests and the position To know and still choose not to vaccinate.

So again, I ask you...what are their reasons? If they know that a) COVID vaccines work, b) COVID vaccines are safe, c) COVID is a serious public health threat that has literally killed millions of people globally, and d) reputable scientific and medical organizations have
encouraged the public to be vaccinated since they became available to the public, and none are discouraging it...why would people who are aware of all those facts not get vaccinated? I grant an exception for folks who have a legitimate medical reason not to, such as an allergy to a vaccine component.

 

[Wildswanderer]

No medical treatment is ever free of risk. The risk of any serious side effect of getting a COVID vaccine is very small.

So is the risk of dying from covid.

 

[Left Coast]

So is the risk of dying from covid.

Depending if you have underlying risk factors.

Regardless, the risk of dying from COVID is greater than the risk of dying from the vaccine(s). You know this, yes?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Depending if you have underlying risk factors.

Regardless, the risk of dying from COVID is greater than the risk of dying from the vaccine(s). You know this, yes?

No I don't. I know what we are being told.

 

[Left Coast]

No I don't. I know what we are being told.

Thank you.

Example #2 @Unveiled Artist

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Again, this indicates to me that you haven't actually asked very many unvaccinated people the question. Try it. Most unvaccinated people* do in fact have an idea why they have chosen not to be vaccinated. Ask them what it is. ElijahElisha just told you. Ask some others.

*in the US. I understand that in other countries the vaccines are not as widely available to folks; that's a different story.

Like I said,I have not and choose not to. RF is the only place I go to but it's always provaxxer against anti. Believe or not, vaccinated have the upperhand.

So again, I ask you...what are their reasons? If they know that a) COVID vaccines work, b) COVID vaccines are safe, c) COVID is a serious public health threat that has literally killed millions of people globally, and d) reputable scientific and medical organizations have
encouraged the public to be vaccinated since they became available to the public, and none are discouraging it...why would people who are aware of all those facts not get vaccinated? I grant an exception for folks who have a legitimate medical reason not to, such as an allergy to a vaccine component.

Other than the ones I mentioned?

I don't know. Setting me up in a corner is playing a logical fallacy. The point is we don't know the whole world, literally.

No amount of reasons one may give will make you say "yes, that makes sense, I disagree."

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thank you.

Example #2 @Unveiled Artist

Hm. All I can say to that is he has a point.

The problem is do you consider it or shoot him down?

(Not saying I agree just saying he has a point)

 

[Left Coast]

Like I said,I have not and choose not to. RF is the only place I go to but it's always provaxxer against anti. Believe or not, vaccinated have the upperhand.

If you choose not to ask people, then it doesn't really make sense to say we can't know what motivates people to decide against vaccination.

Other than the ones I mentioned?

Correct, because the ones you mentioned wouldn't be mentioned by people who knew the 4 points I laid out.

I don't know. Setting me up in a corner is playing a logical fallacy. The point is we don't know the whole world, literally.

Again, no one is setting you up in a corner. No one claimed we "know the whole world."

No amount of reasons people will give will make you say "yes, that makes sense, I disagree."

If people gave reasons that were grounded in empirical evidence and supported by the professionals whose careers are dedicated to accurate dissemination of research data on these topics, I very much would say that makes sense. But that's the problem. Antivax folks don't have either of those things.