Young Hillsong Church congregant who mocked vaccine dies of COVID

[Left Coast]

Like I asked Left Coast, how does being unvaccinated=being dumb?

What's the inherent connection between the two?

Ignorance is not stupidity.

 

[Wandering Monk]

I'd like a source for that information.

Sounds a bit high as a one out of two infected people in the entire population of 332,987,277 people ends up in hospital. 19 million dosent even scratch the surface of the total population.

Come to think of it, do we even have enough hospitals to accommodate those figures?

Yeah, my decimal was off. It is 1.92 million Covid related hospitalizations.

Below are Covid related hospitalizations in cases per 100,000 population. The US population is 331 million. At 581 per 100,000, that works out to 1.92 million. That is a 6% hospitalization rate.

 

[F1fan]

Like I asked Left Coast, how does being unvaccinated=being dumb?

Well the hospitals are full of unvaccinated people with Covid. Unless you enjoy a nice hospital vacation, and the costs that comes with it, it's not a smart thing. There have been millions vaccinated, including old people, and the there have been very few side effects. There is no sound reason to avoid vaccination.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No, as I've already said multiple times now.

Meaning you're using your experience to judge the world population of unvaccinated people.

And I keep waiting for you to show me a person who has chosen to be unvaccinated who is aware of the 4 facts I mentioned earlier.

You keep repeating the question. If I went back and tried to answer it, then what?

Are you actually looking for an answer or to discredit again the answers I give?

Believing the government is making up data to control people is literally a conspiracy.

But I never implied that. The government has the ability to tell us what we want to hear and see and censoring is one of many ways to do it. I don't know where you live (since it depends on where we are from) but in the US it's heavily one-sided.

By the criteria of scientific professionals whose literal job is to evaluate the evidence regarding COVID vaccine efficacy and safety.

But you knock them down.

After asking the same question and same statements I'm beginning to forget what on earth are you trying to say that hasn't already been said.

I've addressed every reason you gave, UA. What would you like to go over again?

Then just accept that you disagree with the reasons. No harm no foul.

Actually, they are. I have heard very similar sentiments expressed by YECers and antivaxxers, particularly when it comes to conspiracy, not understanding scientific research, and so on. They're also both prevalent in conservative circles.

You're talking to the wrong person, then. I can't make sense of the comparison.

Which, again, is a reflection of their ignorance on this subject because it goes far beyond the United States. The vaccines have been tested, evaluated, and administered by governments around the world.

Vaccinated people can be ignorant as well, so I don't paint them all with the same brush stroke.

They are being tested and still are. Just some people rather wait until all the information is to go and others have enough information to build their decisions on.

Who is "they?" As for the first claim, I'd be willing to bet there is a strong correlation there. As to the second, I don't subscribe to it.

Provaxxers (I got it from RF conversations)

The victims are people like those in the OP who die of COVID because they swallowed bull**** about COVID and the COVID vaccines.

If you need to take a break, then that's cool. I'm loosing no sleep over this.

I just see both sides and have no anti/provaxxer emotionalism involved in the argument in and of itself. So far on RF, the unvaccinated really don't care who takes the vaccine and who does not, they just won't take it themselves. Provaxxers care even if the antivaxxer population is so small it won't affect the goal towards herd immunity.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Well the hospitals are full of unvaccinated people with Covid. Unless you enjoy a nice hospital vacation, and the costs that comes with it, it's not a smart thing. There have been millions vaccinated, including old people, and the there have been very few side effects. There is no sound reason to avoid vaccination.

But that's been like that before vaccination. If their circumstances are the same, ideally their risk would be the same.

How did that increase just because people were vaccinated... we're all still at a risk of getting COVID just vaccinated people lowered their risk.

The emphasis on "the unvaccinated are still getting COVID" is an incentive to get people vaccinated. It's using guilt and consequence to pressure people to vaccinate.

 

[Wandering Monk]

I'd like a source for that information.

Sounds a bit high as a one out of two infected people in the entire population of 332,987,277 people ends up in hospital. 19 million dosent even scratch the surface of the total population.

Come to think of it, do we even have enough hospitals to accommodate those figures?

Yeah, I was wrong. I was off by a decimal place. It is 1.92 million hospitalization, or about 6% of confirmed cases.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Ignorance is not stupidity.

I didn't mention ignorance in my reply to him/her. I just asked how being unvaccinated means you're dumb (stupid, whatever).

What's the inherent connection?

 

[ElishaElijah]

So again, what data are you waiting for that would convince you to be vaccinated?

Don’t need it

 

[ElishaElijah]

As far as knowing the effects, you're right - we do know them. And what we know now that millions of people worldwide have been vaccinated is that the vaccines are very safe and that the side effects are mild.

Don’t think it’s been mild or safe for quite a few people

 

[Unveiled Artist]

So again, what data are you waiting for that would convince you to be vaccinated?

I think this is the issue you're having. People can make sound and unsound decisions with all the data in the world.

The data isn't "scripture."

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Like which logical reason? Again, I keep waiting for you to actually substantiate this.

Take side affects such as heart problems and blood clots to make it direct and simple and commonly repeated.

Some unvaccinated people take these things to heart and that's why they don't vaccinate until the government no longer needs to experiment.

Why should they not take heart problems and blood clots into consideration?

Why are these two things not good reasons to not vaccinate?

 

[F1fan]

Meaning you're using your experience to judge the world population of unvaccinated people.

No, the hospital admission form does all the judging necessary.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No, the hospital admission form does all the judging necessary.

He's using his experiences with antivaxxers to judge the world population of antivaxxers.

 

[F1fan]

But that's been like that before vaccination. If their circumstances are the same, ideally their risk would be the same.

It's not like they';re eating too much junk food and getting fat while the rest of us are healthy and fit. There's a virus that gets transmitted among the unvaccinated, and this means the pandemic continues, it means the virus could mutate to more dangerous forms, it means government officials might have to close businesses if it becomes too dangerous to be open, it means schools might not be able to reopen. That is the effect on society that selfish and foolish non-vaccinated people are causing. They are a menace.

 

[Left Coast]

Meaning you're using your experience to judge the world population of unvaccinated people.

We all use our own experience to evaluate the world. I said from the beginning I was speaking generally, based on my experience literally speaking with unvaccinated people and listening to their reasons. Maybe there's a whole group of undiscovered unvaccinated people who have fabulous, evidence-based reasons for the lack of vaccination. I haven't seen it.

You keep repeating the question. If I went back and tried to answer it, then what?

Are you actually looking for an answer or to discredit again the answers I give?

I keep repeating it because you keep making the same baseless claim and not giving any evidence for it.

If you want me to stop asking you to substantiate your claims, stop making them?

But I never implied that.

I didn't say you implied that. Other people did.

The government has the ability to tell us what we want to hear and see and censoring is one of many ways to do it. I don't know where you live (since it depends on where we are from) but in the US it's heavily one-sided.

I live in the US. It's "heavily one-sided" because the evidence is heavily one-sided. For the same reason that the scientific community endorses a round earth and evolution.

But you knock them down.

After asking the same question and same statements I'm beginning to forget what on earth are you trying to say that hasn't already been said.

Ditto. Please stop making claims you can't support.

They are being tested and still are. Just some people rather wait until all the information is to go and others have enough information to build their decisions on.

What information, specifically, are you waiting for? When the FDA provides full approval, will that change your mind? Or will that be another example of government simply telling us "what we want to hear?"

If you need to take a break, then that's cool. I'm loosing no sleep over this.

I plan to lose no sleep over it either. You seemed to be taking personal offense at my line of questioning, with accusations that I'm "cornering" you.

I just see both sides and have no anti/provaxxer emotionalism involved in the argument in and of itself. So far on RF, the unvaccinated really don't care who takes the vaccine and who does not, they just won't take it themselves. Provaxxers care even if the antivaxxer population is so small it won't affect the goal towards herd immunity.

I suspect that if and when herd immunity were actually reached, you'd see "provaxxers" care much less about antivaxxer silliness. Currently we're not there and a disturbing number of people are not getting vaccinated because of misinformation they've been told, so that becomes more of a concern.

 

[Left Coast]

Don’t think it’s been mild or safe for quite a few people

Again, that's simply inaccurate. You can look up the stats on side effects yourself.

 

[F1fan]

He's using his experiences with antivaxxers to judge the world population of antivaxxers.

Do you need a tissue?

 

[Left Coast]

Don’t need it

Don't need what?

 

[Left Coast]

I didn't mention ignorance in my reply to him/her. I just asked how being unvaccinated means you're dumb (stupid, whatever).

What's the inherent connection?

You're again asking the question, so again I'll provide you the answer:

Unvaccinated people, generally, choose to be unvaccinated because they are ignorant of the efficacy or safety of the vaccines or believe conspiracies about how the government is making up statistics and wants to control us. That's the connection.

 

[Left Coast]

Take side affects such as heart problems and blood clots to make it direct and simple and commonly repeated.

Some unvaccinated people take these things to heart and that's why they don't vaccinate until the government no longer needs to experiment.

Why should they not take heart problems and blood clots into consideration?

Why are these two things not good reasons to not vaccinate?

They aren't good reasons because the chances of those things happening to a person who gets vaccinated are extremely small, particularly when compared with the risk of serious medical complications if a person actually gets COVID. That, for the second or third time, is why the CDC and WHO and similar organizations continue to recommend vaccination to the public after having evaluated the incidences of the side effects you mentioned.