Your experience with abstinence

[cottonflowers]

I'm curious...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Getting a bit personal here, but here goes:

I had sexual relationships in the past, but my wife and I waited until marriage to have sex.

Personally, and having seen both sides, I think it's better not to wait. I would never have forced the issue with my wife before we got married, but if she had felt differently, I think that it would have been better if we had begun to develop that aspect of our relationship earlier.

Also, when it comes to abstinence, there's the basic issue of skills: nobody's good at anything right away when they don't have experience. I think that in many cases, when two virgins marry, it creates a situation where sex is more an expression of awkwardness than love, at least in the beginning; hopefully the couple grows beyond this, but I worry that in some cases, they don't.

Now... I'm not suggesting that you go out and have sex with the first guy you see or do anything you're uncomfortable with, but personally, I see absolutely nothing wrong with sex outside of marriage, especially in a committed relationship.

 

[whereismynotecard]

I voted for the first one. Anyone here who knows me at all already knows that though. I don't like secks... or marriage.

 

[Magic Man]

I have only ever had sex with my wife, but we started before we got married. She has had multiple partners. I did pretty much everything up to actually having sex, but I decided to wait for someone whom I loved, and my wife was the first woman I really ever felt like I could honestly say "I love you" to.

In retrospect, I have to say that if I had to do it over again, I'd probably just go ahead with it much earlier on. As Penguin said, knowing what you're doing only enhances the experience. I think having those other experiences would have been good for me. With that said, I don't really regret it. I'm fine with the way things turned out.

 

[idea]

I wish I had waited...

...the trouble with American marriage is our style of courtship. It is artificial, juvenile, and premature, and emphasizes romance, sex appeal, charm, and affluence to the exclusion of the deeper, more enduring aspects of character.... - Romantic Love and the Jewish Concept of Love - Finding a Marriage Partner

as for character... loyalty, patience, self-control, etc. etc. do these mean nothing anymore? our mariages might well as be as meaningful as the one night stands we had before them... if we don't think marriage is special enough to wait for, what is it special enough for?

 

[Sunstone]

So far as I know, abstinence has never made much sense to me. It's hard to explain, but it has intuitively struck me as a little bit like a race car driver waiting until the day of the race to learn how to drive.

I don't buy into the notion that waiting for marriage is always better. I've known of relationships that were apparently damaged by the couple waiting too long to have sex. I've also know of even more relationships where the couple waited until marriage only to discover they weren't that compatible. I think abstinence might work for a small minority of people, though, but I don't believe it's the wisest course of action for most people.

Some people say everyone would benefit from abstaining from sex until marriage. That's an interesting notion, isn't it? Sometimes I wonder if there are psychological reasons a person would believe that to be true.

 

[Magic Man]

I wish I had waited...

...the trouble with American marriage is our style of courtship. It is artificial, juvenile, and premature, and emphasizes romance, sex appeal, charm, and affluence to the exclusion of the deeper, more enduring aspects of character.... - Romantic Love and the Jewish Concept of Love - Finding a Marriage Partner

as for character... loyalty, patience, self-control, etc. etc. do these mean nothing anymore? our mariages might well as be as meaningful as the one night stands we had before them... if we don't think marriage is special enough to wait for, what is it special enough for?

Well, I'm not sure sex has anything to do with that. It basically comes down to religious beliefs. There's no inherent reason sex should wait until marriage, and sex isn't the difference that makes marriages only as meaningful as one night stands. It's the way we look at them. Plenty of people have sex with multiple people before marriage and end up having a perfectly healthy, loving and lasting marriage.

 

[idea]

So far as I know, abstinence has never made much sense to me. It's hard to explain, but it has intuitively struck me as a little bit like a race car driver waiting until the day of the race to learn how to drive.

What about learning how to drive together?

Well, I'm not sure sex has anything to do with that. It basically comes down to religious beliefs. There's no inherent reason sex should wait until marriage, and sex isn't the difference that makes marriages only as meaningful as one night stands. It's the way we look at them. Plenty of people have sex with multiple people before marriage and end up having a perfectly healthy, loving and lasting marriage.

Do you think that once you are married, you should be loyal to your partner? Or do you think before / after it makes no difference?
I always thought marriage is supposed to be who you are closest too... not just a friend, or someone to split the bills with... union of souls and all that... unique - that person is unique to you...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

it was then that the fox appeared.
"good morning" said the fox.

"good morning"
the little prince responded politely
altho when he turned around he saw nothing.

"I am right here" the voice said, "under the apple
tree."

"who are you?" asked the little prince, and added,

"You are very pretty to look at."

"I am a fox", the fox said.

"Come and play with me,"
proposed the little prince, "I am so unhappy."

"I cannot play with you," the fox said,
"I am not tamed."

"AH please excuse me,"said the little prince.
But after some thought, he added:
"what does that mean---'tame'?"

"you do not live here," said the fox,
"what is it you are looking for?"

"I am looking for men," said the little prince.
"What does that mean---tame?"

"Men,"said the fox,
"they have guns, and they hunt.
It is very disturbing.
They also raise chickens.
These are their only interests.
Are you looking for chickens?"

"No," said the little prince.
"I am looking for friends.
What does that mean---tame?"

"It is an act too often neglected,"
said the fox.
"It means to establish ties."

"To establish ties?"

"Just that," said the fox.
"to me, you are still nothing more than
a little boy who is just like
a hundred thousand other little boys.
And I have no need of you.
And you, on your part, have no need of me.
To you I am nothing more
than a fox like a hundred thousand other foxes.
But if you tame me, then we shall need each other.
To me, you will be unique in all the world.
To you, I shall be unique in all the world. . ."

"I am beginning to understand,"
said the little prince.

"There is a flower. . .I think she has tamed me. . ."

"It is possible," said the fox.

"On earth one sees all sorts of things."

"Oh but this is not on the earth!"
said the little prince.

The fox seemed perplexed, and very curious.
"On another planet?"

"Yes"

"Are there hunters on that planet?"

"No"

"Ah that's interesting! Are there chickens?"

"No"

"Nothing is perfect," sighed the fox.
But he came back to his idea.
"My life is very monotonous," he said.
"I hunt chickens; men hunt me.
All chickens are just alike,
and all the men are just alike.
And in consequence, I am a little bored.
But if you tame me,
it will be as if the sun came to shine on my life.
I shall know the sound of a step that will be
different from all the others.
Other steps send me hurrying back
underneath the ground.
Yours will call me, like music out of my burrow.
And then look:
you see the grain-fields down yonder?
I do not eat bread.
Wheat is of no use to me.
The wheat fields have nothing to say to me.
And that is sad.
But you have hair that is the color of gold.
Think how wonderful that will be
when you have tamed me!
The grain, which is also golden,
will bring me back the thought of you.
And I shall love to listen
to the wind in the wheat. . ."

The fox gazed at the little prince,
for a long time.
"Please---tame me!" he said.

"I want to, very much," the little prince replied.
"But I have not much time.
I have friends to discover,
and a great many things to understand."

"One only understands the things that one tames,"
said the fox.
" Men have no more time to understand anything.
They buy things all ready made at the shops.
But there is no shop anywhere
where one can buy friendship,
and so men have no friends any more.
If you want a friend, tame me. . ."

"What must I do, to tame you?
asked the little prince.

"You must be very patient," replied the fox.
First you will sit down
at a little distance from me
-like that-in the grass.
I shall look at you out of the corner of my eye,
and you will say nothing.
Words are the source of misunderstandings.
But you will sit a little closer to me,
every day..."

The next day the little prince came back.

"It would have been better to come back
at the same hour," said the fox.
"If for example, you came at four o'clock
in the afternoon,
then at three o'clock I shall begin to be happy.
I shall feel happier and happier
as the hour advances.
At four o'clock,
I shall be worrying and jumping about.
I shall show you how happy I am!
But if you come at just any time,
I shall never know at what hour
my heart is ready to greet you. . .
One must observe the proper rites. . ."

"What is a rite?" asked the little prince.

"Those also are actions too often neglected,"
said the fox.
"they are what make one day
different from other days,
one hour different from other hours.
There is a rite, for example, among my hunters.
Every Thursday they danse with the village girls.
So Thursday is a wonderful day for me!
I can take a walk as far as the vineyards.
But if the hunters danced at just any time,
every day would be like
every other day,
and I should never have any vacation at all."


So the little prince tamed the fox.
And when the hour of his departure drew near---

"Ah," said the fox, "I shall cry."

"It is your own fault," said the little prince.
"I never wished you any sort of harm;
but you wanted me to tame you. . ."

"Yes that is so", said the fox.

"But now you are going to cry!"
said the little prince.

"Yes that is so" said the fox.

"Then it has done you no good at all!"

"It has done me good," said the fox,
"because of the color of the wheat fields."
And then he added:
"go and look again at the roses.
You will understand now
that yours is unique in all the world.
Then come back to say goodbye to me,
and I will make you a present of a secret."

The little prince went away,
to look again at the roses.
"You are not at all like my rose," he said.
"As yet you are nothing.
No one has tamed you, and you have tamed no one.
You are like my fox when I first knew him.
He was only a fox
like a hundred thousand other foxes.
But I have made a friend,
and now he is unique in all the world."
And the roses were very much embarrassed.
"You are beautiful, but you are empty," he went on.
"One could not die for you.
To be sure, an ordinary passerby would think
that my rose looked just like you
--the rose that belongs to me.
But in herself alone she is more important
than all the hundreds of you
other roses: because it is she that I have watered;
because it is she
that I have put under the glass globe;
because it is for her
that I have killed the caterpillars
(except the two or three we saved
to become butterflies);
because it is she that I have listened to,
when she grumbled,
or boasted,
or even sometimes when she said nothing.
Because she is MY rose."


And he went back to meet the fox.
"Goodbye" he said.

"Goodbye," said the fox.
"And now here is my secret, a very simple secret:
It is only with the heart that one can see rightly;
what is essential is invisible to the eye."

"What is essential is invisible to the eye,"
the little prince repeated,
so that he would be sure to remember.

"It is the time you have wasted for your rose
that makes your rose so important.

"It is the time I have wasted for my rose--
"said the little prince
so he would be sure to remember.

"Men have forgotten this truth," said the fox.
"But you must not forget it.
You become responsible, forever,
for what you have tamed.
You are responsible for your rose. . ."

"I am responsible for my rose,"
the little prince repeated,
so that he would be sure to remember.
-
The Fox and the Little PrinceThe fox and the Little Prince

 

[Sunstone]

...if we don't think marriage is special enough to wait for, what is it special enough for?

I'm confused. Are you trying to say virgin sex is the only thing that makes marriage special to you?

 

[Sunstone]

What about learning how to drive together?

What's the advantage?

 

[sandandfoam]

I don't think abstinence is a great idea. If two people want to go at it what's to wait for?

 

[Charity]

What about learning how to drive together?

Does that include having an instructor along? I think it would be wise to practice a while before getting behind the wheel....Experience is the best teacher....

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Some people say everyone would benefit from abstaining from sex until marriage. That's an interesting notion, isn't it? Sometimes I wonder if there are psychological reasons a person would believe that to be true.

I suppose that if that's all I had ever been told and I had no experience outside marriage on which to base a contrary opinion, I might believe it too.

What about learning how to drive together?

Does that work in any other context? Why would it work for sex?

I always thought marriage is supposed to be who you are closest too... not just a friend, or someone to split the bills with... union of souls and all that... unique - that person is unique to you...

I think so, too, but I don't see how abstinence fits into that.

 

[Magic Man]

What about learning how to drive together?

Sure. You always do. It just depends on who you learn with.

Do you think that once you are married, you should be loyal to your partner? Or do you think before / after it makes no difference?
I always thought marriage is supposed to be who you are closest too... not just a friend, or someone to split the bills with... union of souls and all that... unique - that person is unique to you...

Of course you should be loyal to your partner. I'm not sure what this has to do with sex and marriage and waiting. Are you saying that the only way someone can be special enough to be a marriage partner is if they are the only one you've ever shared sex with?

http://wolfweb.unr.edu/homepage/shubinsk/fox.htmlWhat message were you going for with the piece from the Little Prince?

 

[Sunstone]

I suppose that if that's all I had ever been told and I had no experience outside marriage on which to base a contrary opinion, I might believe it too.

Possibly. But for it to actually work that way in practice, would you not need to be somehow isolated from absorbing any information to the contrary? Either isolated because you have not heard any information the contrary, or isolated because you have not believed any information to the contrary.

 

[idea]

Of course you should be loyal to your partner.

What does it mean to be loyal?

I'm not sure what this has to do with sex and marriage and waiting. Are you saying that the only way someone can be special enough to be a marriage partner is if they are the only one you've ever shared sex with?

I think two people who have waited have someting more between them than those who don't wait. I think it is part of loyalty.

What message were you going for with the piece from the Little Prince?

What it means to be unique.

 

[Magic Man]

Possibly. But for it to actually work that way in practice, would you not need to be somehow isolated from absorbing any information to the contrary? Either isolated because you have not heard any information the contrary, or isolated because you have not believed any information to the contrary.

Well, I have to say that I was not isolated. I knew all aspects of it, and I was still under the impression it was something that would be special and should be saved for only a very committed relationship.

 

[idea]

Perhaps defining marriage would be good?
What makes marriage different than friendship etc.?
What is the point of loyalty within marriage?

 

[Dezzie]

I think that as long as you are in a commited relationship, and are sure of it, sex before marriage isn't a problem. As long as you don't have those meaningless one night stands, I don't see the issue. To me, sex has always been making love. My Fiance was my first, and I made sure he truly loved me before we did anything. When I felt it in my heart, I knew. I love this one man, and this one man only. Sex before marriage is not a problem, as long as you do not take it or the person for granted...

 

[idea]

Well, I have to say that I was not isolated. I knew all aspects of it, and I was still under the impression it was something that would be special and should be saved for only a very committed relationship.

I think that as long as you are in a commited relationship...

So, why should it be saved for a committed relationship? If anyone can see the point of reserving it for only committed relationships, I think they might be able to see the point of saving it for marriage...