Your kid is fat!

[Ðanisty]

No, I'm not. Don't you think that once they are healthy, they will be mentally happier as well? And I don't agree that nothing is as desperate or painful as being gay. You can somewhat hide and lie about being gay, you can't hide your weight. Heavy kids get the worst end of the stick, I know that. That's why I think they should be helped and for their health.

The point is if this thread was about homosexuality, you'd be treating it very different.

I said earlier in the thread that I was of normal BMI in school, and I was. But I wasn't skinny, therefore I got teased too for being fat, and believed I was. I know what these kids go through and I want to help them.

Then do something that will actually help. There's no need to support an idea that won't help and will contribute to the torment.

So we should just give up on the kids? This is more than just a BMI test at a school. It's about helping these kids who have no where else to go. If they can't rely on their parents, who are they going to rely on?

The real and only effective answer is that they are going to have to rely on themselves. That's what we all have to do. It doesn't matter how much someone's parents, teachers, preachers, friends, siblings and other loved ones care...if someone doesn't want something for themselves, it's never going to happen. They all know they aren't healthy. It is frankly impossible not to know with the way the media focuses on it. I'm not saying people shouldn't be supportive. I'm just saying they shouldn't contribute to the problem by putting a blinking "I'm fat" sign on their forehead.

You're right, what do I know? I'm just a hypocrite, right?

It's a fact of life and you can't just ignore it and pretend that all parents care. Well, you can, but it's definitely not going to give you a very good leg to stand on in debates like this.

 

[Green Gaia]

The point is if this thread was about homosexuality, you'd be treating it very different.

Of course I would. Kids aren't dying of heart attacks and developing type 2 diabetes and life-long health problems from being gay.

Then do something that will actually help. There's no need to support an idea that won't help and will contribute to the torment.

The real and only effective answer is that they are going to have to rely on themselves. That's what we all have to do. It doesn't matter how much someone's parents, teachers, preachers, friends, siblings and other loved ones care...if someone doesn't want something for themselves, it's never going to happen. They all know they aren't healthy. It is frankly impossible not to know with the way the media focuses on it. I'm not saying people shouldn't be supportive. I'm just saying they shouldn't contribute to the problem by putting a blinking "I'm fat" sign on their forehead.

It's a fact of life and you can't just ignore it and pretend that all parents care. Well, you can, but it's definitely not going to give you a very good leg to stand on in debates like this.

All I see that you are saying is that we should ignore them and turn a blind eye so they don't feel bad about themselves, and I don't see how that is going to help them with their potential health problems. Yes, the kids know they are not healthy, but they don't know what to do about it.

 

[Ðanisty]

Of course I would. Kids aren't dying of heart attacks and developing type 2 diabetes and life-long health problems from being gay.

Justify it however you want.

All I see that you are saying is that we should ignore them and turn a blind eye so they don't feel bad about themselves, and I don't see how that is going to help them with their potential health problems. Yes, the kids know they are not healthy, but they don't know what to do about it.

Then you haven't been reading what I've said. Perhaps you should try addressing one of the many points I've made about how this can be detrimental to children, both emotionally and physically.

 

[Green Gaia]

Justify it however you want.

OMG! You're not understanding me at all. I give up!

Then you haven't been reading what I've said. Perhaps you should try addressing one of the many points I've made about how this can be detrimental to children, both emotionally and physically.

And being overweight is good emotionally and physically?

 

[Feathers in Hair]

I think that there is a serious issue that is out in the open here, and that people are avoiding. Go on! Confront it!

 

[Ðanisty]

OMG! You're not understanding me at all. I give up!

The problem is that you failed to understand my point in the first place.

And being overweight is good emotionally and physically?

You're still dodging the issues I raised. What about the fact that addressing this could likely cause obese children to seek food for comfort or develop an unhealthy way of losing weight?

 

[Green Gaia]

Ðanisty, I'm tired, you win. You have convinced me that trying to help children other than my own will only make them worse, so I won't. So who is going to help them? You say they have to do it themselves, well they haven't been doing a such a great job:

According to the Center For Disease Control (CDC), the percentage of overweight children aged 6-11 years has almost doubled since the early 1980's. The percentage of overweight adolescents has risen by nearly 300 percent.
​

 

[UnTheist]

Ðanisty, I'm tired, you win. You have convinced me that trying to help children other than my own will only make them worse, so I won't. So who is going to help them? You say they have to do it themselves, well they haven't been doing a such a great job:

According to the Center For Disease Control (CDC), the percentage of overweight children aged 6-11 years has almost doubled since the early 1980's. The percentage of overweight adolescents has risen by nearly 300 percent.
​

Yeah, t's a lack of kids wanting to be healthy. All schools, or most, address obesity in health class.

 

[yippityyak]

In my honest opinion, the school should definately do it on an anonymous level. These letters should be sent to the parents of the kids.

BUT.............
If this is going to be done, the government should be involved 100%. If these parents dont react within a specified time, social services should be involved.

At the end of the day, the child (who knows no better, mind you) is being abused. If it is the parents who are feeding them and allowing them to get fat, its THEIR fault. If its the school thats feeding them crap and not offering PE, they should be fined. If it is a medical condition, its the parents fault, they should be taking the kid to the doctor and rectifying this issue.

A child, in any country in the world, has the right to be looked after, both emotionally and physically, NO MATTER WHAT!!! To allow the child to get fat is wrong, and so is the schools feeding them crap, and so is not taking them to the doctor when you can see there is a problem. And if all those avenues have been approached, then its the doctors fault for not informing the parents.

I dont see how any one here can sit back and honestly say that a 6 year old kid must get over the teasing, must decide for themselves what is good and bad to eat, can set up an exercise routine for themselves, etc. It is ridiculous! I might as well say to my 2 year old "hey, start early! You must now decide what you are going to eat and how you are going to exercise!" He will be eating icecream and cake all day, and watching TV!!! And why shouldnt he do those things? He does not understand the concept of responsibility, and even though a 6 year old has an understanding of responsibility, how can it extend to food and exercise when there are other "more important" things at that age? Like jewellery and makeup and dress up for a girl and cars and video games for a boy? Why are we talking of robbing them of their child hood because their parents are willing to step up to the plate? That is what social services are for right? And if social services are too busy to handle queries like that, then what the hell are schools doing by doing this when there is no repocussions?

Come on now people!!! We are parents for a reason! Regardless of what religion you belong to, parents are put on this earth to look after and nurture their kids, emotionally, physically, in every possible way! I will not stand back and say I leave all responsibility to the victim! We might as well get rid of all the parents out there and call women "baby carriers" and men "sperm suppliers"! If you are not adult enough to do the job of parenting, dont have sex in the first place!!! Simple!

 

[michel]

If we are going to fight childhood obesity, someone has to tell the parents and if the parents aren't taking the child in for regular doctor visits, they may not be hearing it at all. Oh sure, they know their child is a little on the heavy side, but do they really understand what they can mean for the child's health? Do they know how to change the child's environmemt to get him/her to a healthy weight? Schools can be a great way to educate the kids and parents.

I remember those public BMI tests too, standing in the middle of the gym with everyone watching. It was horrible and I was of normal weight. I can't imagine what they heavier kids went through. So I think finding a more private way of helping the kid is a must. Embarassment hardly ever works and for many kids probably leads them straight to the food to comfort themselves.

I agree completely; some parents haven't the sense to see what is happening to their kids. Some of those parents haven't a clue about proper nutrition either.

But the warning about BMI being "over the limit" should be a private thing between the school and the parents.

Having said that, even if the parents are made aware of the problem, that need not mean that they would do anything about it - just like the following excerpt from:-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/5349392.stm

(This was as a result of schools trying to provide healthier nutritional food for the Children at school)

Parents feed pupils through gates

Parents climb through an overgrown garden to make their deliveries

Pupils at a South Yorkshire school are being fed fish and chips through the gates by parents who say the canteen is not providing what their children want.
Students at Rawmarsh Comprehensive are not allowed out of the grounds at lunchtime, so some parents are taking their orders for the chip shop instead. They say pupils are not being given enough time or choice for their meals. But the school said it aimed to provide good quality food that helped pupils to concentrate in the afternoons.

 

[darkpenguin]

Two weeks ago I was listening to the radio on how people felt about public schools telling you that your kid is either too fat or too skiny. I remember in middle school they checked my BMI in front of everybody and the results were there for all to see.

Now I was in shape back then and had no issues with BMI but I can imagine kids that were overweight/underweight must have been dreading it that day.

Do you think public schools have any business telling you that your child is fat or skinny?

I had a similar experience in high school.
There was a nurse in doing eye tests who thought it was her place to tell me that I was short for my age and that there were things that could be done about my height!
So I went home and told my mum who called the doctor and ranted and raved about this nurse and had her told off.
If it was the nurses place to say anything then she would have known the tests and pain I went through as a small kid just to be told that it's a genetic thing!

 

[Mike182]

Ðanisty, I want to HELP these kids and I think doing nothing is the worse thing we can do. I want to see them live happy, healthy lives without being teased. Do you really think if we ignore their weight and unhealthy habits they will be teased less and be happier?

i've been following this thread, and i made a post earlier - though it seems to have gone un noticed

first, where do we draw the line of a kid who is healthy enough, and a kid who needs a talking to? i don't know what the average height-to-weight ratios and BMIs are, nor do i know what they are supposed to be, so i can't even begin to say who we should be looking to help, and who we shouldn't.

second, bullying is a very big problem, and word will always get out to the other kids if you are recieving help for anything, and you do become a target.

third, the school curriculum! we need healthy foods and diets and stuff tought about. i would be a bad teacher, i can garuntee that, but a good teacher should be able to get kids at an early age to engage ideas about healthy foods in school, which should be followed up on in school dinners. this education can begin early on in primary schools, and continue all the way through.

fourth, parents! information leaflets should be available for parents detailing all the basic ideas they need to have to keep their kid healthy.

fith, the kids themselves! if a kid is getting to an unhealthy weight, why? although i am no expert on this subject, i suspect there is more than one potential reason why a person may be gaining weight.

sixth, parents rights over their child! parents should be offered meetings, doctors appointments, appointments with dieticians, councelling and any other resources they may need to help their kid - but these should only be offered!

what of these 6 should be done in schools? 1-3 in my opinion. 4-6 can be done outside of school by the social services. having 4-6 done outside of the school can hopefully go towards finding the balance between helping both th ekids and the parents, and reducing the attention drawn to the problem for other kids.

 

[opensoul7]

There is a time and a place for everything.While obesity is a serious problem in the USA , public discussion of weight in front of children is not the time or the place. Children can tend to be somewhat ruthless as it is . Offering ammunition for humiliation by their peers is not a good idea. If the school wants to test privately and give the results privately to the parents then I have no problem with that . On a outside note about weight and school, I recently heard that american public schools were considering banning running during recess ! Because running causes accidents so lets wrap our kids in foam til they look like the little brother from a christmas story and waddle them off to school . When I was a kid most of the playground equipment resembled some form of inquisition torture devices. I got knocked out cold once while playing tag and running to close to the swings :thud: , took feet to the head . the teacher was like "you o.k , shake it off , rub some dirt on it , you will be alright" then I stumbled away like a drunk man leaving a bar , not in a straight line but more of a s pattern. I guess you will have that from time to time. (sorry about the reminiscing)

 

[Booko]

However, I think you're making some broad generalizations. There are a few progressive schools out there. Lets hope the salad bars at some schools include leafy greens and an assortment of fresh vegetables.

Yes, I hear the schools in Texas are on the forefront of a change, and I'm glad for that. They even buy fresh food from local producers (what a novel idea! )

The thing is, you have to pull out of the federal lunch programme to give the kids decent food, which is retarded to say the least. Why would we want to penalize schools for giving the kids far better food?

 

[Booko]

Booko, while I share your concern, Victor is absolutely correct when he states that not all mothers are like yourself--not all parents care, or have the time, or even knowledge to provide for their children in that manner, so it does fall to the schools in that respect, as sad as it may be.

Anytime they'd like to teach real nutrition in health classes, I'm all for it. What they're teaching now is terrible and outdated information funded by agricultural industries. It would be laughable, if the results were so sad.

Danisty is not just right about the parents knowing their kids are fat, Tigress. The kids know they're fat. They don't need a BMI to tell them that. They have all figured it out from the abuse they get at school.

 

[Booko]

Kids today aren't just a little chubby like they were when we were growing up. The number of morbidly obese children are frighteningly climbing. Kids with [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ty[/FONT]pe 2 diabetes, heart attacks, etc., are growing. Heart attacks!! I agree that schools should do more than just report to the parents on the kids size. The schools need to be promoting lifestyles by offering nutrious food and getting rid of the junk. (BTW, my son takes his lunch to school as well because I can make a better lunch than the school can.) The schools need to promote phyiscal education as well instead of taking it away or making it optional. But I do not see the harm in a private consultation with a child and their parents about better eating and excerise habits. Who knows, it might just save their life. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

Sorry, Maize, but I simply do not trust the schools to teach those kids anything meaningful about their health. Considering they're teaching them such unmitigated crap as "ice cream is a good source of calcium" -- quite frankly, until they change their message to reflect what we actually know about health as opposed to what agribusiness wants them to believe in order to sell more product, I am very opposed to going an extra mile with BMIs. What would be the point? We have Health classes already, and I don't suggest we take them away. People who are fat know they are fat. They don't need a BMI, either public or private, to tell them that.

The elimination of any real physical education is a serious problem, and one not being addressed anywhere that I've noticed. That's tragic. I had an exchange with Anders about school curricula a month or two ago, and was shocked to find out how much his schooling required by way of real exercise. Heck, I've been shocked to find out how little my kids have done over the years they've been in school.

The other thing we haven't touched on here is the difference between the food we ate and the food our kids are eating. As long as we have chemical companies buying out food companies, expect our kids to get fatter and sicker, no matter if they exercise or not.

The problem is only partly us. The other problem is our food.

The reason we have kids coming up with Type II diabetes is a change in daily diet, in part. We drank sodas for a treat. They drink sodas from toddlerhood on. ack!

The other part is the infusion of needless sugar into everything.

We didn't have sweetened tomato paste when I was young. Go look at a can of Contadina sometime.

Who needs sugar in their vanilla? Was anyone planning on drinking it straight?

Since when did we need corn syrup in roast beef deli meat? Was beef supposed to taste sweet?

I could go on with a VERY long list here...but seriously, everyone just go read the labels on your food yourself. If you think you're eating a healthy diet and you're eating anything like a typical American -- you're in for a shock.

All those needless carbs and calories add up to one amazingly unhealthy diet. Unless you're going to teach the kids to cook only whole foods these days, you've already lost the battle against Type II diabetes.

I won't even get into the chemical side of things.

 

[Booko]

OMG ---- what do we do if the kid is FAT and GAY!!!

Uh...homeschool?

 

[Booko]

Something that was a factor for me while I was growing up was that the county/ state/ educational system was the one who paid for my school lunches/ breakfasts. I was limited to what was on the cafeteria menu. Some of the kids that have no choice but to eat school lunches were (at least back then) limited to the options of eating something unhealthy or going hungry. Sometimes kids don't have parents that are willing or able to pack lunches for them, either from lack of funds or from lack of caring.

Unfortunately, when when one gets home, some of these kids encounter the same thing. Unless one has access to fresh fruits and other goods, the easily accessible and unhealthy food usually winds up being cheaper. (At least in my area.) In the long run, the kids are the ones that have to pay more for it. I think a priority would be to help educate parents on finding affordable, healthy meals that they can provide for the children.

All excellent points, Feathers.

And yes, high carb, high fat, chemical-infused food is always cheaper to buy. Part of that reason is the chemicals extend shelf life, so there are fewer losses, so its cheaper. Part of that reason has to do with our bassackwards public policy that subsidizes the very foods that are worst for us. We subsidize dairy, meat and grains. Anyone heard of anyone subsidizing fruits? Green veggies? Legumes? No...didn't think so. So the healthiest things for us are often the most expensive.

If you're on a limited income -- good luck with that.

Among some of the stranger things I've seen in nutritional public eduction for those on limited means is completly unrealistic suggestions like, gee you should be eating salad, so bagged salad is a good choice. Damn! *I* don't even buy bagged salad because it's so expensive and spoils quicker!

(When I'm working at the Master Gardner's office, I get to work alongside the county agent who works on home economics. They counsel people on everything from spot removal to eathing healthy. The agent won't use some of the state's printed materials that are just...stupid. She's written up her own and gives those out instead. Smart woman.)

I'm sorry, but if the "something" we're going to do in schools is simply not useful, and probably less than useful, then I'm all for "nothing."

I don't believe that an ineffective or even destructive something is better than nothing.

Especially when the schools could maybe spend their efforts doing something that's actually part of their mission: like teaching reading, writing, math, history and science.

Well, it has to be the full moon or something, because it seems Sandy and I actually agree on something.

 

[Booko]

How does sending a report to parents who don't care help the kid? Or having a meeting with parents who don't care?

Exactly. Teachers will tell you that when it comes to kids education, it's the parents who don't really need to meet with the teacher who actually show up.

I don't see how a BMI report is gonna work any different.

(I haven't bothered to get into the language barrier aspect, because that's more of a local problem, but in my area that's a really big problem with schools communicating with parents at all.)

 

[Quiddity]

Sorry, Maize, but I simply do not trust the schools to teach those kids anything meaningful about their health. Considering they're teaching them such unmitigated crap as "ice cream is a good source of calcium" -- quite frankly, until they change their message to reflect what we actually know about health as opposed to what agribusiness wants them to believe in order to sell more product, I am very opposed to going an extra mile with BMIs. What would be the point? We have Health classes already, and I don't suggest we take them away. People who are fat know they are fat. They don't need a BMI, either public or private, to tell them that.

The elimination of any real physical education is a serious problem, and one not being addressed anywhere that I've noticed. That's tragic. I had an exchange with Anders about school curricula a month or two ago, and was shocked to find out how much his schooling required by way of real exercise. Heck, I've been shocked to find out how little my kids have done over the years they've been in school.

The other thing we haven't touched on here is the difference between the food we ate and the food our kids are eating. As long as we have chemical companies buying out food companies, expect our kids to get fatter and sicker, no matter if they exercise or not.

The problem is only partly us. The other problem is our food.

The reason we have kids coming up with Type II diabetes is a change in daily diet, in part. We drank sodas for a treat. They drink sodas from toddlerhood on. ack!

The other part is the infusion of needless sugar into everything.

We didn't have sweetened tomato paste when I was young. Go look at a can of Contadina sometime.

Who needs sugar in their vanilla? Was anyone planning on drinking it straight?

Since when did we need corn syrup in roast beef deli meat? Was beef supposed to taste sweet?

I could go on with a VERY long list here...but seriously, everyone just go read the labels on your food yourself. If you think you're eating a healthy diet and you're eating anything like a typical American -- you're in for a shock.

All those needless carbs and calories add up to one amazingly unhealthy diet. Unless you're going to teach the kids to cook only whole foods these days, you've already lost the battle against Type II diabetes.

I won't even get into the chemical side of things.

Golly Gee Sharon, seems you've been putting more then a couple minutes of thought on this one. Good stuff!

This sounds like a problem much bigger then the school to me...:cover:
I'm not even sure if having the school serving vegetables alone will tap into the problem. Knowing me, back then, I wouldn't eat and would wait until after school to eat a slice of pizza.

You need a whole change of attitude to fix something like this. You can have all the programs you want, but if I want a slice of pizza, what are you going to do?