Your least favorite Scripture

[Grandliseur]

Right - but they do come in handy for justifying killing each other.

Any excuse will do. Especially if I can take your property. Civil forfeiture is coming handy when you have a gun, and the law on your side. Now you can kill by confiscating a man's property ruining his life with the letter of the law, don't even need guns to do the killing.

We have become much more sophisticated than the Vikings. They had to use a sword and weapons to do the killing and stealing.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

It doesn't? So where is the complexity in the Sermon on the Mount?

Exactly! Sometimes, the best solutions don’t require complex maneuvers, yet they still produce the hoped-for results. The difficulty comes in application; suppressing their selfishness and pride, and showing humility.

 

[siti]

Exactly! Sometimes, the best solutions don’t require complex maneuvers, yet they still produce the hoped-for results. The difficulty comes in application; suppressing their selfishness and pride, and showing humility.

Exactly! Because people are proud and selfish and difficult and complicated...so...in regard to the simplistic solutions indicated in the Sermon on the Mount...

...were Gandhi and Lord Irwin able to get their countries together and solve the problems of the world on that basis? Or were the problems of India (never mind the world) in reality far more complex and intractable than Gandhi's optimistic and religiously conciliatory sound byte suggested?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

why would parents be responsible for the actions of their adult children?

Grown children, rebellious and still living in their parents house, because they were lazy and drunk!

And the parents weren’t responsible.Thats why the offspring were stoned, not the parents.

And even if they were, do you really think that capital punishment is appropriate for being drunk and disorderly? Huh? I certainly wouldn't have survived past my teens on that basis. You?

Uh, no...I was not a drunkard as a teen! Not one now, either.

 

[siti]

Uh, no...I was not a drunkard as a teen! Not one now, either.

Good for you! Unfortunately I definitely live in a glass house when it comes to certain "moral" questions - "ain't got no room for no rocks in my pockets anyway"!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Exactly! Because people are proud and selfish and difficult and complicated...so...in regard to the simplistic solutions indicated in the Sermon on the Mount...

Earlier, you said the Bible only gives “drastically simplistic bronze-age solutions” — you’re wrong. I was showing you that one who was a non-Jew / non-Christian recognized the Bible’s value, even in these modern times.

He said it.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Good for you! Unfortunately I definitely live in a glass house when it comes to certain "moral" questions - "ain't got no room for no rocks in my pockets anyway"!

Well, that’s your choice.

Wish you the best!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Just curious. Do you think all who have been freed from their debt of sin - shall be resurrected?

If this thread is wrong for this subject, you can answer me directly if you like.

That’s a good question! But you knew that, lol!
Really, only Jehovah can make that determination, maybe Jesus too, now.

You know, the Bible says even Korah went to Sheol, ie., hell (from which all apparently will have a resurrection) ....and he was an outright rebel! — Numbers 16:33

Gehenna is another story. As you know.

Take care, my cousin! Hope your wife is coping well today! Tell her, her brother says hello.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The absolute mischaracterization of God in Job conclusively shows that it's a fictional work. So yes. It's logically impossible for a real God to act as the character did in Job.

??

“absolute mischaracterization” — how?

 

[sayak83]

??

“absolute mischaracterization” — how?

A true God is loving and compassionate. He will never allow suffering to occur just to test loyalty.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

My least favorite Bible passage? Deuteronomy 22:28-29, which seems to imply women should be sold off to their rapist. I can't imagine the trauma if that were ever done.

I plan on starting a thread on this, dealing with this very Scripture, within the next few days.

If you read the earlier verses, you should get a better view of the context. (If it was rape, then screaming was what the woman needed to do. Then, the man -only- was killed....the woman was free.)

I’ll post your username to the thread, so you’ll be aware of the post. Hopefully within the week.

 

[Grandliseur]

That’s a good question! But you knew that, lol!
Really, only Jehovah can make that determination, maybe Jesus too, now.

You know, the Bible says even Korah went to Sheol, ie., hell (from which all apparently will have a resurrection) ....and he was an outright rebel! — Numbers 16:33

Gehenna is another story. As you know.

Take care, my cousin! Hope your wife is coping well today! Tell her, her brother says hello.

As you said in truth, only Jehovah and Jesus know. Jesus because he is the one who forgives us our sins as the Judge.

Yet, let me give you an example: a man who is about to die makes a will. Since he is the richest man in the village, he wants to let all his fellow villagers benefit from his death. However, while all the villagers are his debtors, quite a few are his enemies. So, in his will to benefit all, he forgives all their debts, even his enemies. Yet, his gifts he only gives to those who were not his enemies in the village.

Please consider the following:

those who die are forgiven their debts: " 7 for he who hath died hath been set free from the sin. " They have paid for their sins:
"23 for the wages of the sin is death,"
However, only the friends in Jesus Christ get the gift: "and the gift of God is life age-during in Christ Jesus our Lord."
​

 

[Hockeycowboy]

As you said in truth, only Jehovah and Jesus know. Jesus because he is the one who forgives us our sins as the Judge.

Yet, let me give you an example: a man who is about to die makes a will. Since he is the richest man in the village, he wants to let all his fellow villagers benefit from his death. However, while all the villagers are his debtors, quite a few are his enemies. So, in his will to benefit all, he forgives all their debts, even his enemies. Yet, his gifts he only gives to those who were not his enemies in the village.

Please consider the following:

those who die are forgiven their debts: " 7 for he who hath died hath been set free from the sin. " They have paid for their sins:
"23 for the wages of the sin is death,"
However, only the friends in Jesus Christ get the gift: "and the gift of God is life age-during in Christ Jesus our Lord."
​

Let's see if I follow you. Are you saying that enemies' debts are forgiven, but then only friends receive life, the gift?

If so, then if the enemies stay dead, where's the forgiveness?

You know, life -- everlasting life -- really isn't granted until after the Final Test.

 

[siti]

I was showing you that one who was a non-Jew / non-Christian recognized the Bible’s value, even in these modern times.

He said it.

Yes he did - so were he and Lord Irwin able to solve the world's problems on the basis of the Sermon of the Mount? That would be the proof of the pudding don't you think?

 

[Grandliseur]

If so, then if the enemies stay dead, where's the forgiveness?

When you consider the hell fire teaching and eternal torment, the forgiveness of dept means that there is no torment for wrongs done after death, though there is before death. This is how things are 'wages of sin is death' - the price is paid, the slate is clear. But, there is no gift for the wicked.

Please look at the following link:
Link: Truth Seeker - Judgment & Sheol

This should give you what the scriptural indication is, why I say things are as I have stated.